should there be a pro-vax forum? - Page 2

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I think the official position is that circumcision is not compatible with mothering's beliefs, so topics that support circumcision are discouraged.  Officially mothering does not support or discourage vaccination.

That's interesting; what about those whose religion requires circumcision? (I'm not being argumentative here--I really don't know MDC's stance on that aspect of circumcision.)

[Rrrrrachel]

I think they still dont' want you to start a thread extolling the virtues of and admonishing people to circ, regardless of your reasons.  I don't think there's a rule saying you can't post if your kid is circed.  

[laohaire]

MDC's stance is that circumcision is not up for debate, and they don't host religious arguments for it either.

If people want to debate that, that's cool, but go over there to do it. Personally I don't think it's the same thing, and I don't see the point of bringing it up here other than to stir the pot maybe.

[AdinaL]

I'm just going to point out that we are looking at getting rid of many sub forums right now, so the likelihood that we will add a new one is slim.  

Bringing circ into this argument is not comparable nor relevant.

[purslaine]

AdinaL - where should pro-vax posters who want to discuss an issue amongst themselves post?

Here or sel/delayed?

Edited by purslaine - 6/7/12 at 10:14am

[AdinaL]

Main Vaccination forum.  

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

Main Vaccination forum.  

Thanks for clarifying.

[serenbat]

Bringing circ into this argument is not comparable nor relevant.

to me - I see much of the same (not saying mothering is one way or another and I do know mothering stance on circ) but many do and are very pro-vac and/or circ and still feel they belong here- I can see that some may desire that as well if a pro-vac does happen- just making that argument 

as it has been brought up other places, it "can" come off to some as confusing when certain stances are taken in one subject but not another by mothering 

frankly I do support less sub forms in certain areas-this being one, I would like wide open debate on all subject not selective-not just pro/con and together for the most part

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

frankly I do support less sub forms in certain areas-this being one, I would like wide open debate on all subject not selective-not just pro/con and together for the most part

I would start by collapsing some of the less busy and less sensitive subforums….such as the tv/book/ etc division.  I would not start with a subforum that is meaningful to a large group of people.

[erigeron]

Okay, so if there isn't going to be a pro-vax forum and topics that are specifically soliciting pro-vax opinions are to be hosted in the main forum, can there be a guideline about anti-vaxxers keeping out of these threads? If we can never post a topic where we're looking specifically to hear from other pro-vax people without it getting derailed into a long debate, that means that specifically pro-vax topics are not, in practice, welcomed after all.

[amnesiac]

There's a thread in Q&S regarding subforums - maybe it would be a good place to share your input? http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1354286/getting-rid-of-subforums




I'd be down with ditching the vax subforums though.

[purslaine]

Form the like" comment: 

 

"Super~Single~Mama 
"Me too. The not vaxing echo chamber needs to go."

 

Why do you care that some of us like a support-only forum (in addition to this - the main vaccine debate forum).

[AdinaL]

I should point out, and I'm sure amnesiac could also share input on this - that the vax forums were a place for discussing informed consent and researched decisions over all. There are many many forums on the internet in which you can discuss being full vaccinated on schedule.  Not so many where you can discuss not vaxing at all. We have never had a policy that pro-vax threads are not allowed.  We do watch for those who seem to have nothing more to do here than tell all those who don't vax that they are wrong.  

As with anything here, having your own thread is a two way street. Wanting your own private thread where you can talk about being pro-vax is fine, *until* someone starts throwing in bits about the "crazy non-vaxers who can't read research".  At which point we will inevitably end up seeing non-vaxxers come in to defend themselves, and then their thread will begin to discuss the "pharma loving vax pushers who are badmouthing us"...and so on and so forth.  Threads of that nature are tough to host. We disallowed political party threads for this reason.  The focus becomes about the people posting on the other thread, not about the topic of vaxes, politics, etc. And the forums are not immune to this either.  We have plenty of folks who come in to INV and tell the people there how ill informed they are. 

 The recent polarization of non-vax vs pro-vax has become heightened in a way it was not before.  Partially I believe this is because  - compared to 2003, when I joined MDC - not vaxing has gained press coverage, and the media is doing a fine job of encouraging that polarization. Our addition of sub forums has probably furthered that cause. The growth of MDC as a board has added as well. Much different climate when there are 2000 members (or less) compared to the 185K we have now.  

Subforum discussion is taking place, and we are looking at it very carefully.  We want to encourage discourse and meaningful conversation, not disenfranchise people. This is one of the forums that is strongly being looked at for collapsing back into one forum.  If you have opinions, weigh in in the proper places please.  

[Imakcerka]

Oh I say bring it down to ONE!  The vax forum that is.  And then let it run wild.  I like chaos.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Form the like" comment: 

 

"Super~Single~Mama 
"Me too. The not vaxing echo chamber needs to go."

 

Why do you care that some of us like a support-only forum (in addition to this - the main vaccine debate forum).

Why do you insist on posting to support only threads for vaxing parents?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

I should point out, and I'm sure amnesiac could also share input on this - that the vax forums were a place for discussing informed consent and researched decisions over all. There are many many forums on the internet in which you can discuss being full vaccinated on schedule.  Not so many where you can discuss not vaxing at all. We have never had a policy that pro-vax threads are not allowed.  We do watch for those who seem to have nothing more to do here than tell all those who don't vax that they are wrong.  

As with anything here, having your own thread is a two way street. Wanting your own private thread where you can talk about being pro-vax is fine, *until* someone starts throwing in bits about the "crazy non-vaxers who can't read research".  At which point we will inevitably end up seeing non-vaxxers come in to defend themselves, and then their thread will begin to discuss the "pharma loving vax pushers who are badmouthing us"...and so on and so forth.  Threads of that nature are tough to host. We disallowed political party threads for this reason.  The focus becomes about the people posting on the other thread, not about the topic of vaxes, politics, etc. And the forums are not immune to this either.  We have plenty of folks who come in to INV and tell the people there how ill informed they are. 

 The recent polarization of non-vax vs pro-vax has become heightened in a way it was not before.  Partially I believe this is because  - compared to 2003, when I joined MDC - not vaxing has gained press coverage, and the media is doing a fine job of encouraging that polarization. Our addition of sub forums has probably furthered that cause. The growth of MDC as a board has added as well. Much different climate when there are 2000 members (or less) compared to the 185K we have now.  

Subforum discussion is taking place, and we are looking at it very carefully.  We want to encourage discourse and meaningful conversation, not disenfranchise people. This is one of the forums that is strongly being looked at for collapsing back into one forum.  If you have opinions, weigh in in the proper places please.  

So...the recent pro-vax thread has no crazy accusations of non-vaxers, and yet has more posts by non-vaxers than by vaxers. So....we aren't going to get a place to post without being told that we are wrong for *something* about our beliefs? It's wrong to be *proud* of the way we view medical treatment? I'm kind of tired of the "well, the non-vax forum is needed, but AP parents who DO vaccinate have no place here on MDC unless they are willing to constantly defend themselves, or absolutely stay away from the Vax forum entirely because they WILL be attacked here"

[Imakcerka]

I think it's best to bring it down to one. 

1. All subforum posters are the same people stating the same information.

2. Some make it all about them and so we have to read their life story over and over.  I'd like to hear it once and then they can reference it periodically if need be.

3. Every subforum reads the same unless we're lucky and some new poster shows up with AWESOME eye opening material. 

Pretty much all of the subforums are the same thing with a new name.  That is all.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 
 

 The recent polarization of non-vax vs pro-vax has become heightened in a way it was not before.  Partially I believe this is because  - compared to 2003, when I joined MDC - not vaxing has gained press coverage, and the media is doing a fine job of encouraging that polarization. Our addition of sub forums has probably furthered that cause. The growth of MDC as a board has added as well. Much different climate when there are 2000 members (or less) compared to the 185K we have now.  

So….are you hoping to collapse the forums to make the situation less polarised?  

I am not sure that will work.  There are numerous posters on INV who do not post on the main page (the bickering is not their thing).  As you point out, there are few non-vax friendly places on the net for mothers to chat - it would be sad to lose this one.  

If you think this forum is so broken you have to try, then maybe…..

Another way to structure the forums would be similar to the learning  section:

have a pro debate forum

have a non debate forum

Everyone can pick and post accordingly.  

It would mean less debate (but not none - there is debate on subforums - visit them and see).

On the vax forum the debates get heated and sometimes nasty.  

In addition to being a heavy burden for mods, it is hardly welcoming to newbies from any side, or people who do not like drama.  

I do think MDC needs to be clear on whether they want to be support or debate based.  Maybe it can be both - but what is that going to look like?

[serenbat]

given how many PRO-vac places exist aready outside of mothering isn't this really a basic core principle decision for mothering?

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

given how many PRO-vac places exist aready outside of mothering isn't this really a basic core principle decision for mothering?

I don't see how that could run off so many who like mothering but also vax.  Oh wait...