should there be a pro-vax forum? - Page 5

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Car seats aren't natural either, and neither is TV, so I guess the family safety and media forums are right out?

Heck if you want to get technical, computers and laptops aren't completely green and natural either. What about c/s moms, should we kick them out too for being too medicalized in their birth experience?

If you start to have the attitude that no mom belongs here unless they lead the perfectly and completely ap natural life this place is going to become a barren wasteland since most of us cannot fit into that perfect mold.

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 


Heck if you want to get technical, computers and laptops aren't completely green and natural either. What about c/s moms, should we kick them out too for being too medicalized in their birth experience?
If you start to have the attitude that no mom belongs here unless they lead the perfectly and completely ap natural life this place is going to become a barren wasteland since most of us cannot fit into that perfect mold.

Maybe too late.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Buzzer Beater 

Maybe too late.

I've been a member here since 2001 before the great board crash and I have to agree which is really sad because I have found that mods and most members have become much more understanding and accepting in recent years

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by erigeron 

Car seats aren't natural either, and neither is TV, so I guess the family safety and media forums are right out?

carseats dont poison your body either

[nukuspot]

Originally Posted by Sharlla 

No, i dont think there should be a pro vax forum/sub forum on here.  this is a natural family site, vax is not natrual.  JMO   there are plenty of mainstream boards where people can talk about how wonderful they think vax is. 

 

What do you feel about the S/D sub forum then? Should MDC vax boards be solely for non vaxxers only?

[AbbyGrant]

*

Edited by AbbyGrant - 6/28/12 at 8:54pm

[ma2two]

If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

[erigeron]

And cars definitely aren't natural!

My larger point was that we use and do plenty of things that aren't natural, so breezing past 4 pages of this thread which has been a rather thoughtful discussion of the place of pro-vaxers on the MDC forums and posting "No, it shouldn't because vaccinations aren't natural" really isn't productive or helpful. IMO. While I think we can all agree vaccines do not exist in nature, it doesn't follow that there should not be a place to discuss them on MDC.

[stik]

I think it's rude to suggest that MDC moms who have been here for YEARS and made massive contributions to this community should go somewhere else if they want to talk about vaccinating their children.  

No, vaccinations aren't natural.  Neither is the laptop I am using to access the internet so I can type this post.  I'll give a free pass on the "natural" issue to anyone who is using a telecommunications device that they personally hand-wove out of grass and leaves.  The thing that makes humans distinct from other species is the use of complex tools.  Those tools have been vital to human survival since well before the dawn of history (which began with the invention of writing, the technology I am using right now on my complex and unnatural laptop in order to communicate with other humans).  Left to its own devices, nature would have killed my dd at 20 months.  All it took to save her was the skilled use of a few, unnatural tools.  If nature had its way, I would have died at birth.  I take it a little personally when people criticize my decisions for being unnatural. 
 

There are many forums in the world where people talk about vaccination.  I am selective in the forums that I participate in.  I do not post my thoughts and questions to the world wide web in general.  I post here because MDC fits me well in many ways.  Several MDC mods have now popped in to this thread to point out that MDC's core principles do not include an anti-vax philosophy.  We don't promote CIO or circumcision here, but we DO promote thoughtful decision-making regarding what is right for individual families and discussions of those decisions.  Which includes vaccinating for many families. 

I don't care if there's an "I actually vaccinate" forum on MDC or not.  I can see an argument in favor of having such a forum in the same spirit as the argument for having a c-sections forum rather than just sending all the CS moms to "Healing Birth Trauma."  I can also see the argument that the Vaccinations forum is plenty of forum for everyone.  I think the current set-up, with a forum for non-vaxers, a forum for research that is somehow supposed to not have debate, a forum for people who sel/del vax, and a generic forum whose purpose is now unclear, is a little silly. 

The more important issue is the tone of the forum.  It's weird and inexplicable.  Why, for the past two days, has every thread with a pro-vax perspective led to people being interrogated about whether or not they dare to question Dr. Blaylock and his dietary recommendations/claims to cure cancer?  Just for example.

[stik]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

Judging from their presence here, the answer appears to be yes.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

Why do you really care one way or another if there is a pro-vax forum - is it's mere presence somehow threatening to you?

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

Why do you really care one way or another if there is a pro-vax forum - is it's mere presence somehow threatening to you?

Yes, very.

[2lilsweetfoxes]

Did not vote, but my philosophy on vaccinating changed as my mothering journey went on.  With my first, I vaccinated on schedule, as recommended.  With my second, I delayed vaccinations once I realized that our insurance did not cover them due to getting a $300+ bill we could not afford at the time for vaccinations--then when he was diagnosed autistic, well, we stopped.  With our third, she is fully vaccinated, but we did it one at a time, on our own schedule so that if she reacted to any vaccine, we would know which one she reacted to.

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

As I've stated before I'm not sure a pro-vax forum here is needed. 

However I'd just like to comment than MDC mothers who vaccinate sometimes feel in the minority. People often assume because of my use of other Mothering parenting styles (like extended BF, baby wearing, co-sleeping etc) that I am also anti-vax. Even looking at the links at the top of this board points out to me that my beliefs are not thought of as the mainstream in this forum.

A pro-vax, or thoughtfully vaccinating forum at MDC would indicate to us, and the rest of the world that the Mothering philosophy is not inconsistent with an acceptance of and trust in modern medicine (including vaccines) which I think could help the wider acceptance of many other parts of the Mothering philopsophy. But perhaps that is not a good reason to start a forum! ;)  

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

Yes, very.

Why? 

[katelove]

I don't agre with the support elsewhere arguement for not having a pro-vax section here. I purposely avoid most other parenting forums because I have little, in terms of parenting phosophy, in common with most of the other active members. I wouldn't feel very comfortable going somewhere else just for vaccination support.

If we agree that vaccination is not an AP/NFL/CC parenting issue then I see no reason not to have a section here. I realize that the admin is trying to reduce the number of sub-forums but it's pretty clear that the issue of vaccination is polarizing enough that a safe space is needed for all groups, at least for now. It can always be reviewed in 12 months.

[Jennyanydots]

prosciencemum has a good point- I think some "pro-vax" folks may wish to have a place to discuss their concerns and their decision-making process. however, it seems to me that if you end up vaxxing along the conventional schedule but have given it considerable thought, you will be able to find the support, encouragement, and tone you're looking for in the main vax forum, the sel/del forum, or the researching forum.

a separate pro vax forum seems unnecessary to me because it would be an entire forum basically dedicated to the declaration that another group of members has it all wrong. the so called "anti vax" people seem to be comprised mostly of concerned parents who are mostly not patently "anti" anything so much as they are confused by mixed messages from the scientific community, the overly simplified and unsatifying reassurances provided by authorities, and the dearth of reputable unbiased sources to turn to for clarification. why these members want a separate forum to explore, validate, and share info about their ongoing experiences is obvious. on the other hand, the whole pro vax concept exists in order to convince skeptics they are wrong to question conventional thinking on vaccines. if you are firm in your pro vaccination stance, what support could you possibly want, unless it's to discuss the threat posed by non vaxxers? it would be an attack forum.

maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.

[Imakcerka]

No, I do not think it will cause a great divide Jenny.  I think it will create a bit of solidarity amongst the members who are AP and do vaccinate.  Just as the CS forum has been helpful to many it can and I certainly believe will help those who are quite certain they want to vaccinate but feel as though they will be looked down upon. 

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by Jennyanydots 

 on the other hand, the whole pro vax concept exists in order to convince skeptics they are wrong to question conventional thinking on vaccines. if you are firm in your pro vaccination stance, what support could you possibly want, unless it's to discuss the threat posed by non vaxxers? it would be an attack forum.
 

I have no answers for this, but I have seen plenty of non-vaxxing threads that seem to be largely to scoff and vent at pro-vax arguments.  Once a parent makes the non-vax decision, what do they want in their own forum that they can't have in the regular vax forum, except support?  

I think your arguments would indicate more of a no-subforum solution, or for retitling the Select vax forum to simply "I'm vaccinating".

Maybe someone might want to post "My kid had an allergic reaction to X vax" without worrying about patently anti-vax comments, or talk about trying to find inexpensive vaccines for adults or "My doctor wants a different schedule than the state's" or "Why is Hep A required in WA but not here and my insurance won't cover it".   I'm not saying they do need a whole forum to themselves, *just* the on-schedule pro-vaxxers, but I would say they could find plenty to "explore, validate, and share info" in a place where they are free from needing to explain themselves.

Edited to add: reading the Sel vax forum guidelines, I think that it should be retitled to "I'm vaccinating" to include everyone who vaccinates, in whatever way.

[Rrrrrachel]

If you're secure in your decision not to vaccinate why do you need a sub forum except to talk about how people who vaccinate are harming their kids?