Topic submission for debate threads

[AdinaL]

Here's where we get the topics.  If you have a topic for debate - post it.  Make it specific, make it clear.  It can be a basic assumption we hear all the time (such as the one we started with) or it can be a more specific one.  It should be something you wish to research as well, not something where you know there is one study that proves your point, thus making it impossible to debate.

If you like a topic - give it a thumbs-up to "second" it. 

[prosciencemum]

OK, some ideas: 

"The thimersol content in the 2012 formulations of multi-dose vial flu vaccine is dangerous for pregnant women"

here's a common one. Even I had a moment of pause/being a bit scared when my kids got MMR, while I reminded myself that all the studies had been debunked! ;) 

"Vaccinated children are more likely to have autism that unvaccinated children" 

finally: 

"Vaccine preventable diseases declined because of better hygiene practices, not because of the introduction of mass vaccination programmes". 

[AdinaL]

Good ones. I like those.

[purslaine]

"We should use pre-vaccine rates when comparing vaccine risks to disease risks."

"Chicken pox, mumps and rubella should not be on the routine childhood schedule."

[AdinaL]

Also good.

Though I do have a question: "Chicken pox, mumps and rubella should not be on the routine childhood schedule.

How can this be proved?  This sounds like an individual's opinion.  Is there a "because" part to this assertion? 

[prosciencemum]

So are we having another debate? I realise I'm several time zones East of most of you, but Monday morning seems like a good time to start! ;) 

[emmy526]

"It is perfectly safe administering several vaccines at once to infants many times over,  with no long term permanent health consequences"  

[emmy526]

" all vaccines go through rigorous testing and safety procedures, so they MUST be safe"

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

So are we having another debate? I realise I'm several time zones East of most of you, but Monday morning seems like a good time to start! ;) 

Yep, we are. :)  And yep - I'm west coast, so you all are up and at 'em before me.

Just looking at topics again to decide where to start. :)  Will have thread up shortly.

[purslaine]

Personally, I would skip the autism one for now.  There was a huge thread on it just a few months ago.

[AdinaL]

And of course that's the one I picked. LOL  Well, let's get it over with and then we can move on.  I think it is a good one because so many arguments in Vax come back to the Autism argument.  So if we have it sorted for our debaters, then we can move on to other topics from the same ground. :)

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

And of course that's the one I picked. LOL  Well, let's get it over with and then we can move on.  I think it is a good one because so many arguments in Vax come back to the Autism argument.  So if we have it sorted for our debaters, then we can move on to other topics from the same ground. :)

Oh, well, there will be lots of links on the old thread…save me some google searching!! 

[MamaMunchkin]

Hypothesis - there is no inherent conflict of interests in how the safety and efficacy of vaxes are established.

 

[AdinaL]

Okay. New topic time.

But first a question - is this even worth it?  Does anyone really care, or is it just another avenue to fight with one another?

The grapevine has delivered to me that these are a joke, I'm not doing my job moderating and it is useless and why bother and that people are actively staying away.  If that is the case, then we can be done.  So, I ask you, shall we continue?

[crayfishgirl]

I like these, although I rarely comment (mostly because other posters have a greater background knowledge and I don't have time to do much research).  Perhaps others feel differently, but I don't think they are a joke.
 

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

Okay. New topic time.

But first a question - is this even worth it?  Does anyone really care, or is it just another avenue to fight with one another?

The grapevine has delivered to me that these are a joke, I'm not doing my job moderating and it is useless and why bother and that people are actively staying away.  If that is the case, then we can be done.  So, I ask you, shall we continue?

I think the tone on them is much better than the tone used to be on the vax forum - by far.  I have seen no issue with moderation.  

I do think people are staying away, though.  Maybe they really like bickering (and there are some pretty strong anti-bickering rules on the debate thread - so if they like bickering the debate threads are not great, IMHO) maybe they like more organic threads or maybe they are just tired.

I don't think anyone is going to win these debates - or at least the other side is never going to agree the other side has "won."  The differences are too deep.  Half the time we do not even accept the others sources, so we cannot even get to debating the matter.

Edited by purslaine - 7/1/12 at 3:31pm

[katelove]

I agree. I am reading the debate threads but not posting. Partly because my only access is my phone and it's hard to link and write detailed posts and partly because I find it too hard to debate when fundamental premises are not agreed on by all the debaters. It just makes it too complicated.

[dbsam]

I read them (but they are frustrating to me so I decide I will not read them...but then I do!  )

Similar to having a poster blocked but then opening up all her posts anyway.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I don't think anyone is going to win these debates - or at least the other side is never going to agree the other side has "won."  The differences are too deep.  Half the time we do not even accept the others sources, so we cannot even get to debating the matter.

eta...I appreciate all the work/time the posters are putting in to their responses.

[Rrrrrachel]

I don't think they're a joke, but they're not proper debates, either. It is kind of nice to just have it out over one specific thing. I haven't seen huge inequities in moderation you're only human after all

[AdinaL]

I'm not sure proper debates - following all the rules of debate and all that are possible in this format without putting all comments on approval and having a dedicated person review them for accuracy and valid sources.  

And that's the tough part.  Unless we can come up with sources that folks feel are valid (everyone) and agree to, I'm not sure that we can continue.  

So perhaps the scope should be even smaller: a study or article is the focus of the debate and that is what gets pulled apart looked at and a conclusion made?