Mucho privato.. but need help. - Page 12

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

I hope that since people are so concerned about the potential of child sexual abuse that you are all aware that the VAST majority of sex offenders victimize children who they have intimate access to. These are trusted friends and relatives, not the wired who lives down the street. I am much more concerned about preventing access to, well, pretty much everyone - and I do mean everyone - while my child is unable to communication with complete clarity. So for me, that's not really a factor in the decision of what to call genitals. By the time more people have access to my child, she will have a better handle on the specific anatomically correct language. And this thread was so fun before!

[crystal_buffaloe]

I think that most people are aware that children (and adult women) are most likely to be sexually abused by someone they know. Believe me, you're not teaching me anything new here. My grandmother was abused by her uncle and I was assaulted in junior high (by a family friend, at our house).

If DD all of a sudden bursts out with something about her "private parts" when we've been using anatomically correct terms and I ask her who said that, I seriously doubt she's going to say "oh, the creepy man behind a tree at the park," but she might say "Uncle Joe" or "Father Mike" or even "Cousin Sally" and then I would very much want to know why that person had any business discussing anything about "private parts" with her, since DH, MIL, my mom, my sister, Miss L (our former DCP) and I are the only people who have ever taken her to the bathroom ever. A lot of molesters groom children by laying a lot of groundwork before moving in -- and that might well include "playful" talk about genitals.

In any case, we made the decision to use correct terms long before I read that article yesterday. I think it's a compelling argument not to use a variety of euphemisms, or to feel comfortable talking about it around everyone because you are using a euphemism, or to seek out the most common cutesy euphemism in your area/at your daycare/whatever, and it's something I had not thought of before.

Clearly, you can make whatever choice you feel is appropriate for yourself and your family. This is just part of my experience/reasoning for what we are doing.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by 1stTimeMama4-4-10 

I hope that since people are so concerned about the potential of child sexual abuse that you are all aware that the VAST majority of sex offenders victimize children who they have intimate access to. These are trusted friends and relatives, not the wired who lives down the street. I am much more concerned about preventing access to, well, pretty much everyone - and I do mean everyone - while my child is unable to communication with complete clarity. So for me, that's not really a factor in the decision of what to call genitals. By the time more people have access to my child, she will have a better handle on the specific anatomically correct language. And this thread was so fun before!

Thank you, I was feeling this exact same thing...but didn't know how to say it.

As an adult survivor of childhood SA, I am extremely firm in my "policy" about who is allowed unsupervised time with my LOs. Everyone in the family(both sides) understands that my kids are not allowed unsupervised time with anyone except the one person I trust completely with my kids: my MIL. Everyone is cool with this....and that's a good thing, because I don't tolerate haters when it comes to this kind of thing.

My experience and background being what they are, this policy allows me to kick back, worry free. My mother was a SA survivor...she worried constantly about us being victimized. Ha. My abuser was my stepfather and everyone's "favorite guy". He was the "nice guy"...the handsome, well educated, super helpful neighbor everyone loved.

The person who molests your kid is, statistically speaking, not going to be some hairy dude in an alley or a menacing pervert who breaks in through the basement. It's going to be your husbands brother. The extremely well-liked karate instructor...the teenaged babysitter you've known since he was two, etc. So, in order to prevent my mind from burning itself out with worry, my kids are never, have never, been in the care of anyone but me and DH...except for the rare occasion that my MIL watches them while I hit the store or take a nap. Until such time that I think they are "old enough"...this will remain the policy. In any case, by the time I think they are old enough to be in situations where the unthinkable COULD happen...they will be way beyond the point of

So yeah. My kids know the correct terms for their anatomy...but they can call them whatever they want. I'm not really worried about it. My son has been referring to his penis as "the big hose" (hahaha, it is ADORABLE) and my DD calls her lady parts ma'gina...as in "my vagina" smashed together. Whatever. When she has an itch she knows to say "vulva". My "caring" about what she calls it ends there.

[jewel1288]

Originally Posted by philomom 

Vulva or labia is best. The vagina is the inside part that no one sees.
Always, always use the proper words with your kids. make sure they can name their parts with no shame!

I couldn't agree more. Even if you, momma, don't see shame in the word penis or vulva, your child may interpret your choice not to use it as shame. If you call it what it is, I think it will be normal for them to talk about things frankly, just as they are about other topics that might other wise be touch-y subject, like sex. Maybe that seems like a big jump, but it really isn't. If vulva, penis, vagina, and breast are normal words for them, then talking about sex should be much less uncomfortable for everyone.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by crystal_buffaloe 

We were already saying vulva/vagina with my 25 month old, but then I read this today:

And, here’s another good reason to add to the PANTHEON of reasons to teach your children the anatomically correct names for their genitalia:
There isn’t a child molester on earth who’s going to talk to your daughter about her vagina. Really. But if she suddenly starts calling it a cupcake, you can ask her who taught her that

I just read the article. Good tips. But this part makes NO sense! If my son calls his penis "wee wee", and all of a sudden has a new word, say his "light saber"....well that is a new word no matter what he's been calling it; penis, wee wee, whatever. There is reason to dig deeper  regardless, and having used anatomically correct terms until that point will have had no influence.

Same thing for those of you who are saying the kids need to be able to accurately describe anything that has been done to them: as long as you know what they mean does it matter if they are saying wee wee or penis?

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by P.J. 

I just read the article. Good tips. But this part makes NO sense! If my son calls his penis "wee wee", and all of a sudden has a new word, say his "light saber"....well that is a new word no matter what he's been calling it; penis, wee wee, whatever. There is reason to dig deeper  regardless, and having used anatomically correct terms until that point will have had no influence.

Same thing for those of you who are saying the kids need to be able to accurately describe anything that has been done to them: as long as you know what they mean does it matter if they are saying wee wee or penis?

I have read studies that suggest that pedophiles are more likely to choose victims who don't use anatomically correct words for their sex organs, because using anatomically correct terms suggest to the pedophile that they have open communications about sex with their parents. Predators capitalize on the taboo nature of so many things surrounding sex. If your child is able to indicate that it isn't a taboo in their family, the predator is more likely to worry about the child disclosing what happened.

[katelove]

Originally Posted by P.J. 

Originally Posted by crystal_buffaloe 

We were already saying vulva/vagina with my 25 month old, but then I read this today:

And, here’s another good reason to add to the PANTHEON of reasons to teach your children the anatomically correct names for their genitalia:

There isn’t a child molester on earth who’s going to talk to your daughter about her vagina. Really. But if she suddenly starts calling it a cupcake, you can ask her who taught her that

I just read the article. Good tips. But this part makes NO sense! If my son calls his penis "wee wee", and all of a sudden has a new word, say his "light saber"....well that is a new word no matter what he's been calling it; penis, wee wee, whatever. There is reason to dig deeper  regardless, and having used anatomically correct terms until that point will have had no influence.

Same thing for those of you who are saying the kids need to be able to accurately describe anything that has been done to them: as long as you know what they mean does it matter if they are saying wee wee or penis?

I don't think it's so much a matter of the parents understanding what the child means but more a matter of being able to present an unambiguous case for prosecution. If the defense can argue that someone, somewhere uses "wee wee" or whatever to describe something other than their genitals then it can cast reasonable doubt on what happened.

[thursday2]

This is unrelated to the original topic, but seemed pertinent to the discussion at hand:

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/06/22/talking-with-your-kids-about-sexual-abuse

I myself am not comfortable with referring to female genitalia as vulva, etc. - it has nothing to do with shame, I just think it sounds harsh and clinical, and I do think that the looks and comments my DD would get in the store, etc. if she yelled out "My vulva itches!" would do more to harm/confuse her than calling it something else.  We call it penis for DS, and he has shouted about it in public, but people find it funny...that's societal, I'm sure, and probably where this whole debate stems from...  Anyway, DH and I talked a lot about it after reading this thread, and whoever suggested "nethers," thanks!  We often call DS's stuff 'junk' as well, as in, "Hey, kid, get your hands off your junk!" if he's playing with the whole area because I think it keeps it lighthearted, which is what we'd like.  I feel like nethers is a good female equivalent that doesn't sound so doctor's office...

But that musing aside, the above article makes some really interesting points about why it's a good idea to use the proper terminology from the beginning - as groundwork for later discussions about the bad side of sex.  If the first time they learn about sex and sex parts is in the context of "here's bad stuff people might do," it's going to start them with a culture of fear - this is how I was raised, and why I never told anyone about the SA I went through, and why I had/still have a lot of issues.  If they know about the neutral/good stuff already, telling them to watch out for the bad stuff is just the other side of it, like strangers or hot stoves or anything else that they have positive or neutral associations with initially that you add nuance to as they mature.  I hadn't thought of it like that before, and it's definitely going to influence how we talk about things with both our kids.  I thought I'd share for anyone else that found herself eye-rolling through some of the posts -

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by thursday2 

This is unrelated to the original topic

Everything just about is unrelated to the original topic on this thread, so why not?  

I don't find "vulva" too clinical.  "Vaginal vestibule"..... now that's too clinical!

[philomom]

Originally Posted by eclipse 

I have read studies that suggest that pedophiles are more likely to choose victims who don't use anatomically correct words for their sex organs, because using anatomically correct terms suggest to the pedophile that they have open communications about sex with their parents. Predators capitalize on the taboo nature of so many things surrounding sex. If your child is able to indicate that it isn't a taboo in their family, the predator is more likely to worry about the child disclosing what happened.

Yep, I've read those studies, too. It's so important to be able to call a spade a spade and have the power of language behind your kids.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by thursday2 

I myself am not comfortable with referring to female genitalia as vulva, etc. - it has nothing to do with shame, I just think it sounds harsh and clinical, and I do think that the looks and comments my DD would get in the store, etc. if she yelled out "My vulva itches!" would do more to harm/confuse her than calling it something else.  We call it penis for DS, and he has shouted about it in public, but people find it funny...that's societal, I'm sure, and probably where this whole debate stems from... 

But a lot of us here are asking you to examine whether you should hang on to this discomfort and unpack your feelings towards using the correct terms for the female anatomy.  Why is it easier to say "penis"?

[themothership]

We use anatomical terms (penis/vulva). It may make others uncomfortable, but it is what works for our family. Are there embarrassing moments in public? Of course, like the time my daughter said "Momma has her period, blood on her vulva" (she was 24 months), but I'd rather my daughter know what body parts she carries around instead of having it called a bug, or teedle (both family terms for  the vulva).

[thursday2]

Originally Posted by Youngfrankenstein 

But a lot of us here are asking you to examine whether you should hang on to this discomfort and unpack your feelings towards using the correct terms for the female anatomy.  Why is it easier to say "penis"?

I don't like cutesy terms either, btw, but I don't think it's necessary for me to work out my issues via my daughter.  *shrugs* Not accusing anyone else of that, it's just how I feel about it.  Some of my issues I know (SA survivor, religious upbringing, mom still won't even say "private parts" despite being married to a doctor - she just gestures and makes horrible faces), some are societal influences having to do with feminism, etc....and the rest I don't really care.  There are lots of things I would like to change about society and it's view/subjugation of women, etc. etc. and a lot of things I think I overblown.  She'll know what it's called, much like my son knows both knee and patella, and she can choose what to call it, I suppose, but if I'm doing a disservice to feminism or my own growth by being uncomfortable referring to it as a vulva on a daily basis, that doesn't bother me in the least.  Better that than her sensing my discomfort and my having to get into a discussion with a 4 year old about issues I hope she never has to face.

[thursday2]

Oh, meant to add: I think it's easier to say penis because it's not as harsh.  I feel about the word "dick" the same as I do about "vulva."  It's a harsh word; I don't like it.  The OP was mocked for her not liking the sounds, but I agree.  I'm big on words and sounds, and I don't like V words for the most part - when looking at baby names, we skipped the V chapters entirely because I know how much I don't like them, so it's not do completely with anatomy, or gender roles.  I think cunt's a better word than vulva, but has connotations I don't like for a child using it...  For women, there's not a particularly neutral/attractive word out there like penis - and yes, that's to do with society, but it is what it is.