I hate the concept of self soothing - Page 2

[Redmom]

aaahmyeye

Mama, you are doing the right thing by nursing your DD when she needs it.  Listen to your baby not your doctor.  In my experience, pediatricians are good with medical issues but are very old school when it comes to parenting.

I have an 18 month old son who initially needed rocking or nursing to sleep.  When he was about 11 months, I found I could lay him down on the bed next to me, sing to him, and he would drift off to sleep - so that's how he goes to sleep at night now and for nap time.  And I take a nap right along side him! We always go to him when he wakes up and cries, and give him a cuddle or boobie to get back to sleep.  I want him to know that I'm always here for him, whenever he needs me.

Your DD is only 6 months and that is still so young.  She needs to know that mama is close by and that you are there for her.  By soothing and comforting her at nighttime, you are teaching her that sleep is a safe and pleasant state to be in.

I do not believe in "sleep training" because all it really teaches bubs is that if they cry, no one is there for them.  What a cruel lesson for them to learn.

And I think the concept of "self soothing" is a crock....again....I think that "self soothing" just means that bubs has given up crying because they believe they are all alone, so what is the point.

You are doing a great job mama.

Remember, just because someone else offers parenting advice, does not mean you need to take it.

[newmamalizzy]

We still have the 40 minute wake-up here sometimes at 27 months old!  And if it's not 40, it's 1:20.  And if not 1:20, then exactly 2 hours. 

I think...yes, your daughter will learn to fall asleep on her own whether you nurse her to sleep or not, and yes, the nursing to sleep probably does contribute to the night-wakings.  My daughter only in the past month or two went from waking 5 or more times a night to 1 or 2.  I've made some steps to encourage her to fall asleep on her own, but they all happened in due time, and with relative ease.  It does bother me that I feel like my daughter has no idea how to relax and go to sleep.  She has never, ever in her life, no matter how exhausted, just fallen asleep, other than being in the car.  But I don't think sleep training is the way to go about teaching her.  My daughter is very cerebral, and I think she will actually have to "learn" about sleeping before she can do it at will. 

I agree with others here that the concept of self-soothing is odd.  Most people seek out comfort from others when they're feeling upset or troubled, even in adulthood. Odd to think that a little baby should do that. 

One thing I used to do when my daughter was 5 or 6 months:  She'd sleep-drink her bottle for so long, that "the 40" was almost there by the time I put her in bed.  So I just kept her on my lap and soothed her through that first wake-up before even trying to put her to bed.  It was just easier that way.
 

[aaahmyeye]

Yes, I think a lot of you are right in that "self soothing" is an unrealistic expectation for a little social being.  It's true, as adults we seek out others when we need comfort. It's a pretty crazy expectation to hope a baby would be able to comfort themselves to sleep.

So, I have another question.   Like I said, I usually nurse dd to sleep but lately that hasn't been as effective as I would hope.  She will nurse for awhile, but if she decides she's done nursing but is still awake, she won't continue nursing just to fall asleep.  That means I have to employ other methods to get her to sleep.  The problem is that my baby is no lightweight.  She's 19 lbs at 6 months.  I used to walk her, or put her in a sling/ergo to get her to sleep.  But she is getting heavy.  These methods still work, but they take longer than nursing and are getting tougher on my back.  And she just keeps getting bigger... Soooo, like with sleep training that teaches a baby to fall asleep independently, can you teach your baby to fall asleep to a different method?  Since nursing isn't foolproof for me, it would be nice if I could teach her a back up method that's easier on my body than walking with her.... Has anyone done this?

[mamapenguin]

When nursing to sleep doesn't work, I rock my daughter and sing lullabies, or put her in the stroller and take her out for a walk (the latter only works for naps - I have never managed to transfer her from the stroller to her crib without waking her up).  I used to just put her in the carrier, but that is no longer possible (she's 28 months and 32 lbs. - my back just can't take that any more).  Now that she's older, I nurse her until she feels like her body is settling down and relaxing, and then I sing or tell long boring stories:)  It really does seem to be all about getting her relaxed before I put her in the crib - she's a very active, high-strung little person, and she really has problems settling down on her own.  Bedtime used to take 1-2 hours, but we have it down to about 1/2 hour now.  

[Kaydove]

At 4 months my DD is already starting to not fall asleep while nursing and needing something else to put her to sleep so I turn her on her side and pat her bum till she falls asleep. Its a similar motion to rocking for her and but she's already laying down. I can usually turn her to her back but don't always since she can roll over both ways. Sometimes I'll hold the binky in her mouth (she's learned how to take it out and put it back in herself which I don't want her to do over and over when I'm trying to get her to fall asleep) with one hand and pat her bum with the other. She has a good deal of nighttime cloth diapered bum to pad her too.

My sister used to love getting her bum patted and to this day, at 20, it still makes her get sleepy. The other morning when DD woke DH up early after DH had just gotten home the night before from an exhausting red eye flights for a business trip, I put DH and DD back to sleep by patting both their bums at the same time. Then they both took a good long nap together. He would be mortified if he knew I posted that. Hehe, but it was so cute. I felt bad he got woken up so early, poor guy works so hard for his family that he deserves to sleep in once in a while.

I also second no cry sleep solution if its anything like no cry nap solution. The chapter on getting your co slept baby to take a nap independantly was invaluable.

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[Kaydove]

I also can't stand the phrase 'self soothe.'

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[llwr]

When I think about "self-soothing" it means managing strong emotions or using relaxation techniques --that's not how it's applied to babies.   Self-soothing by my defination is a useful skill, but you'll have plenty of time to teach a child that, and not just at bedtime.  Not to mention that to teach is much more deliberate than just walking out and hoping something good happens.  Some kids might appear to learn to soothe themselves when confronted with parental withdrawal, but I think it's more likely that they're just learning it's not worth it.  I don't think that CIO is always harmful, but I do think that there is always a great risk of harm.  To me, it's just not worth it.

Another thing -- I think it's really awful that we should expect babies to do something that plenty of adults have trouble with, and those things usually seem to be for our own convenience. 

My kids still aren't great sleepers, though greatly improved.  I think I may have to "teach" my older, excitable, night-owl relaxation techniques, maybe even hypnosis!!!  But she's old enough now to actually learn what I intend which is much different to me than just that I won't come.

Are you open to a new ped?  The part that bothers me about your situation is that it's making you doubt your choices and come away from a visit feeling bad.  Right or not, I've found that it's not uncommon to get parenting-type information as well as strictly medical.

[EmbraceLife]

I agree, trust your heart!  My ped has pushed the same thing.

We are doing what feels right to us and couldn't go with the "self soothing", "cry it out" type of recommendations that the professionals gave us.

The boys are confidant and THIS time goes SO quickly.  It took a while ... but with the boys being 18 months and 20 months now, they USUALLY sleep through the night and they USUALLY go down without a problem.

Good luck! 

[To-Fu]

I don't have anything to add.  Just popping in to say I have really enjoyed the conversation so far and I love our little corner of MDC. 

[luckiest]

I got the same advice from my pedi.  I ignored it.

I wonder how many adults crawl straight into bed and go to sleep.  I'd wager just about all of us get into bed and then read, or cuddle with our partner, or toodle on our phones, or watch movie on the laptop, or whatever.  Why should we expect an awake baby to just lie down and fall asleep?  And why are we okay with older kids getting a bedtime story or bedtime cuddle or something, but not okay with young babies (or toddlers) being nursed to sleep?

So silly.  Do what feels right.  

[loveandgarbage]

I can't imagine even thinking that a six month old should be sleeping through the night let alone learning to self-soothe. I agree with everyone-- trust your gut and you're doing a great job!

Many older kids still need to be comforted at bedtime long after they've weaned so of course a baby does! Mine are 4 and 6 and need books, songs, basically a "routine" that calms them down and makes them feel secure.

[SquidMommy]

For the first two months of his life, my LO woke up every 30-45 minutes for the first two to three hours of a sleep cycle (sometimes more!), to nurse, get a diaper change, stare at us, cry for whatever reason, or just generally adjust to having all of his systems come online as part of "Life Outside Of Mom." I slept by physically sitting upright in my bed, pillows under my elbows, LO wrapped in a blanket and cradled in my arms, and I am 99.98% certain I would have murdered anyone who told me NOT to do it, because it was the only way he, my husband, and myself got ANY sleep.

We still cosleep, and my now 16-month old son is somewhat slow to settle - but he also doesn't have screaming fits, anxiety about bed, or wake up a million times a night. It's just way more fun to stay up and play than it is to sleep. But - once he's out, he's OUT. I credit trusting my instincts on how to help him feel secure early on...give yourself the same credit! Your ped sees your child for a few minutes every few months. You see your child every minute of every day, and you best know what to do for your child. As long as what you're doing works for you and your LO, tell your doctor to can it with the parenting tips - or else, let him know when you need a babysitter and see if he's available, since he knows so much about kids!

Anyone here have any tips about how to (nicely or 'firmly') tell a doctor/nurse to butt out? There's one RN at our current office I'd love to tell to STFU...our ped is super-supportive of us, so I don't understand how this RN is employed with her. University facility, I guess...can't pick all your staff.

[Kaydove]

To deal with the RN, I would somehow politely ask her if your doctor agrees with her advice. Maybe get them in the same room and ask the doctor his/her opinion on what the nurse has been saying. I'm not sure exactly the rules but I believe that nurses cant prescribe or give medical advice where a doctor's professional opinion is warranted. Although this could backfire and she could be difficult in the future.

Another way to reply is just to keep saying that "Dr. Jones recommended to do such and such, so I'm going to follow his advice." "I would feel uncomfortable going against my doctor's advice since I trust him." Etc.

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[rinap]

I love the phrase "self-soothe" (just to inject another viewpoint). One of my girls can pop her thumb in her mouth and snuggle up and comfort herself in a way that works for her. It doesn't mean I don't nurse her, and it doesn't mean that I don't go to her and try to comfort her, but I think it is amazing that she has the skills to calm down her own upsets, while in someone's arms, or those few times when it's not possible, like when I am dealing with her sister, or when we're driving. I wish her sister had the same skills, and hope that as she gets more verbal we can get her there (they used to each suck one of A's thumbs, but that faded out by about nine months) But none of this was something we taught, it all emerged (we just did our best to encourage it...rocking her with that hand free, etc.)

When I get advice that doesn't resonate with me, especially from a doctor or family friend, I say thank you, use any bit that might feel right, and ignore all the rest. Thank you doesn't mean that I'm going to use the advice. Or, if they insist, "Thanks, but we don't want to mess with something that's working for all of us right now."

[milkybean]

The concept of self-soothing is lovely.  It's the current USE of it that's ugly.  Self-soothing is something learned by the self.  It's not taught; it can't be taught.  I can't be taught to be a self-taught concert flautist.  To be self-taught, I have to teach it to myself!  Learning it on my own, in my own time.  Same with the idea of children self-soothing.

People also forget about the ING part of self-soothing.  It's a process.  A long process.  One that can't be rushed; if it's rushed, then it's being forced, and it's not something coming from within. 

A baby starting the long process of SELF-soothING is a normal baby.  As long as we realized it's a loooooong process.  I, myself, only worked it out the past couple years, and I'm 42!  I can finally fall asleep fairly quickly and without talking to someone as I fall to sleep.  (started in a family bed then rudely moved to a room with my brother when our dad threatened mom with custody battles over "sleeping with" mom...then promptly let his second family sleep in his bed for *literal* decades...so not being able to wind myself down isn't because someone was there with me! quite the opposite unless I had a nightmare or leg ache)  It's a process!  :)
 

[aaahmyeye]

Thanks ladies.  I love getting all the encouragement. Sometimes it feels so yucky when my baby still needs lots of help falling asleep, then wakes 45 mins into bedtime and needs help falling back asleep.  It just feel like my entire evening is devoted to getting her to fall asleep/stay asleep and how I WISH she would fall asleep easily and I could enjoy some free time with my hubby.  Oh well.  I know she'll grow out of it eventually.  I used to just let her lie on me and nurse through her naps - it was the only way to get her to nap a decent length - and I don't need to do that anymore.  And you know what, I kinda miss it.  At the time I was worried I was doing the "wrong" thing - making her too dependent on me for sleep.  But I don't regret it now.  So maybe in a year or so I'll look back on my nights devoted to getting her to stay asleep with fond memories.

Someone commented and said their son would take a long time to fall asleep as a babe, but now he falls asleep and is out like a log.  I hope my dd gets there. :-)

At any rate, thank you fellow mamas.