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Does anyone regret NOT circumcising? *this is NOT a pro circ thread, just curious about the... - Page 6

post #101 of 133

I don't regret keeping my son intact.  He's just 14 months old, but we haven't had any problems.  I do suppose the new AAP guidelines gave me pause and made me think, "did I make the right decision?"  And I still think I did.  It's his penis.  If he wants to have it circumcised, I will absolutely support his decision to do that.  If he develops any medical issues with it down the road, we can consider circumcision if that will address the issues, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.  I just didn't see any need to do the procedure now, "just in case" something happens.  The benefits are teeny tiny, in my opinion, and may or may not be based on good, solid medical research.  Also, I figured the pain management would be better, if the procedure is needed later on.  He would actually be able to say that he can feel it, whereas a newborn can't communicate.  He would also have pain medication for during recovery, and I don't think that's done for newborns. 

post #102 of 133

Does anyone have statistics on how many men CHOOSE to get circumcised, as adults?  I'm thinking specifically for non-medical reasons.  Like... how many men think, as adults... hey, I want my penis to look like my dad's?  Etc.  (I'm thinking not many, but hey, I'm sure there are some out there.  I know a gal who volunteered to have her breasts removed completely because she just didn't like them... so I guess there are all sorts.)

post #103 of 133
Well I will turn the HEAVY TIDE of answers here in a different direction. I sought out this thread because of a conversation I'm having with my 18yo daughter about circumsizing any future male children she may birth. I have one son biologically, hence had the decision making power to spare him the brutality of the "practice". He is 14, happy to have his foreskin and had one yeast infection that cleared up easily because I was lucky enough to have a British intern in the ER who knew all about healthy, unmutilated penis's. You can imagine my shock and dismay to hear my newly adult daughter say she plans to circumcise! Aaaaah, Ugh! Why? I ask her? Her reply-

She has been in a position to know quite well 3 different male friends in her peer group who are intact and have been very UNHAPPY about not having been cut. Imagine my horror! Really....this isn't supposed to be part of the story! Now these are 3 different families, the boys unrelated in any way, except they are all Unitarian (which I like to believe has more than its share of enlightened people- hence the common-ness of no circumcision). The boys complaints come not from embarrassment or wanting to fit in or be like their dad's, rather, they report painful sex. I don't know details. But I find it a concern. One of the young men is gay, the others straight, and each talks about having the surgery- not as a group mind you, each on their own.

My first thought was wondering about whether their glans had come out, loosening the foreskin appropriately. Is it workin like it's supposed to? My own son was an early bird with this -age 3 and has never been a problem. I worry about this because I have both a nephew and now an adopted son from Vietnam who are ages 15 and 13 and still haven't had the foreskin pull back naturally on its own.

Soooo -that's my story! I don't find the original question in this thread as clearly absurd as some seem to find it. As a huge advocate for abandoning circumcision, I can't ignore my anecdotal "pool" of data. I'm hoping for some answers to give my daughter that can fill in the whole picture, still holding that intact is always best!
post #104 of 133

Boys deserve to be able to grow into men with a member which needs no special attention, nor has any issues with separation

 

. A member which does not harbor infection under a superfluous prepuce. An efficient, robust, and mighty phallus, not a sickly, special needs penis fraught with developmental problems.

 

Did you ever stop to think that the people who conceived the practice of circumcision were not cruel barbarians, but rather were possessed of a practical wisdom and insight which is all too uncommon these days ??? 

 

I would certainly rather no foreskin at all than one which does not function correctly, rendering my penis useless for its intended purpose. Try reading some men's health forums sometime, to discover the true extent of the problems caused by foreskins.

 

Young men write desperately seeking the advice of others, hoping to alleviate the physical and psychological torment and anguish of having some functional impairment related to being " intact".

 

PROPERLY performed circumcision is very advantageous, therapeutically speaking.

 

I imagine a lot of people are deterred from circumcising their children because of a horror story of a botched circumcision they heard of somewhere.

 

It is unfortunate that some "practitioners" have defiled the image of circumcision.

 

Just my $ 0.02

post #105 of 133
Boys have a right to grow into men who are whole and have the right to decide for themselves, and not have that right taken away based on misinformation and rhetoric.

Edited to add : I'll read those sad stories you mentioned, if you will provide me with the sites. Thanks!
post #106 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticalmarg View Post

Well I will turn the HEAVY TIDE of answers here in a different direction. I sought out this thread because of a conversation I'm having with my 18yo daughter about circumsizing any future male children she may birth. I have one son biologically, hence had the decision making power to spare him the brutality of the "practice". He is 14, happy to have his foreskin and had one yeast infection that cleared up easily because I was lucky enough to have a British intern in the ER who knew all about healthy, unmutilated penis's. You can imagine my shock and dismay to hear my newly adult daughter say she plans to circumcise! Aaaaah, Ugh! Why? I ask her? Her reply-
She has been in a position to know quite well 3 different male friends in her peer group who are intact and have been very UNHAPPY about not having been cut. Imagine my horror! Really....this isn't supposed to be part of the story! Now these are 3 different families, the boys unrelated in any way, except they are all Unitarian (which I like to believe has more than its share of enlightened people- hence the common-ness of no circumcision). The boys complaints come not from embarrassment or wanting to fit in or be like their dad's, rather, they report painful sex. I don't know details. But I find it a concern. One of the young men is gay, the others straight, and each talks about having the surgery- not as a group mind you, each on their own.
My first thought was wondering about whether their glans had come out, loosening the foreskin appropriately. Is it workin like it's supposed to? My own son was an early bird with this -age 3 and has never been a problem. I worry about this because I have both a nephew and now an adopted son from Vietnam who are ages 15 and 13 and still haven't had the foreskin pull back naturally on its own.
Soooo -that's my story! I don't find the original question in this thread as clearly absurd as some seem to find it. As a huge advocate for abandoning circumcision, I can't ignore my anecdotal "pool" of data. I'm hoping for some answers to give my daughter that can fill in the whole picture, still holding that intact is always best!

Of course you don't want to ignore your daughter's friends' experiences!

 

I do have to say that you might want to ask them again in a few years. Many teenagers report problems with sex. If you look at a site like Scarleteen.com, you'll see that many boys at that age don't quite know what to do yet and have many problems. I do have to wonder whether it really is their foreskin causing the problems, or if it's just normal teenager stuff, and they are just blaming their foreskins because of their cut-happy culture.

 

For what it's worth, I've known (in the carnal sense) intact males who have not had any problems. Also, my bro is intact and never had a problem, either. For a few more anecdotes.

 

Your daughter also has a brother who might have opinions about his penis. Why doesn't she talk to him? Is he happy to have his foreskin? I think your son will be able to talk her off this ledge when she's an adult.

post #107 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by snip View Post

Boys deserve to be able to grow into men with a member which needs no special attention, nor has any issues with separation

 

. A member which does not harbor infection under a superfluous prepuce. An efficient, robust, and mighty phallus, not a sickly, special needs penis fraught with developmental problems.

 

Did you ever stop to think that the people who conceived the practice of circumcision were not cruel barbarians, but rather were possessed of a practical wisdom and insight which is all too uncommon these days ??? 

 

I would certainly rather no foreskin at all than one which does not function correctly, rendering my penis useless for its intended purpose. Try reading some men's health forums sometime, to discover the true extent of the problems caused by foreskins.

 

Young men write desperately seeking the advice of others, hoping to alleviate the physical and psychological torment and anguish of having some functional impairment related to being " intact".

 

PROPERLY performed circumcision is very advantageous, therapeutically speaking.

 

I imagine a lot of people are deterred from circumcising their children because of a horror story of a botched circumcision they heard of somewhere.

 

It is unfortunate that some "practitioners" have defiled the image of circumcision.

 

Just my $ 0.02

 

HAHAHA snip! I just read your post on another thread and it's good times. It's just so ridiculous that I'm not even angry.

 

This part is especially poetic: "An efficient, robust, and mighty phallus, not a sickly, special needs penis fraught with developmental problems." FYI you do know that intact penises are a bit bigger, right? So, like... they're mightier?

 

"Did you ever stop to think that the people who conceived the practice of circumcision were not cruel barbarians, but rather were possessed of a practical wisdom and insight which is all too uncommon these days ???" Doctors that popularized circumcision in the US were neither barbarians nor possessed with wisdom. They were a group of doctors who thought the practice would stop little boys from masturbating, therefore preserving their immortal souls. It didn't work. You can read about early proponents of circumcision like John Harvey Kellogg on Wikipedia.

 

Don't pay too much attention to forums on Men's Health websites. Healthy adult males (the majority) don't post there, because they don't have any problems. 

post #108 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by snip View Post

Boys deserve to be able to grow into men with a member which needs no special attention, nor has any issues with separation

. A member which does not harbor infection under a superfluous prepuce. An efficient, robust, and mighty phallus, not a sickly, special needs penis fraught with developmental problems.

Did you ever stop to think that the people who conceived the practice of circumcision were not cruel barbarians, but rather were possessed of a practical wisdom and insight which is all too uncommon these days ??? 

I would certainly rather no foreskin at all than one which does not function correctly, rendering my penis useless for its intended purpose. Try reading some men's health forums sometime, to discover the true extent of the problems caused by foreskins.

Young men write desperately seeking the advice of others, hoping to alleviate the physical and psychological torment and anguish of having some functional impairment related to being " intact".

PROPERLY performed circumcision is very advantageous, therapeutically speaking.

I imagine a lot of people are deterred from circumcising their children because of a horror story of a botched circumcision they heard of somewhere.

It is unfortunate that some "practitioners" have defiled the image of circumcision.



Just my $ 0.02


We do not advocate for routine infant circumcision here on MDC.

I have reported your post.
post #109 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticalmarg View Post

You can imagine my shock and dismay to hear my newly adult daughter say she plans to circumcise! Aaaaah, Ugh! Why? I ask her? Her reply-
She has been in a position to know quite well 3 different male friends in her peer group who are intact and have been very UNHAPPY about not having been cut.
When they're old enough, they can get circ'd, if they still want to. If they had been cut, they couldn't grow back a foreskin (foreskin "restoration" isn't). So, if they're unhappy with what they've got, they can "fix" it.
Imagine my horror! Really....this isn't supposed to be part of the story! Now these are 3 different families, the boys unrelated in any way, except they are all Unitarian (which I like to believe has more than its share of enlightened people- hence the common-ness of no circumcision). The boys complaints come not from embarrassment or wanting to fit in or be like their dad's, rather, they report painful sex. I don't know details.
This many boys in a small group experiencing painful sex from an intact penis is very odd. I've never encountered it before. It does make me wonder what kind of medical advice their mothers received when they were babies, and if they're dealing with scarring or other issues from having their foreskins forced back for "cleaning" as infants. I will say that my 19 year old son, who has been sexually active for a while, is an ardent intactivist, and finds the whole idea of circ to be appalling. He's said that circ cuts off "the best part".
But I find it a concern. One of the young men is gay, the others straight, and each talks about having the surgery- not as a group mind you, each on their own.
My first thought was wondering about whether their glans had come out, loosening the foreskin appropriately. Is it workin like it's supposed to? My own son was an early bird with this -age 3 and has never been a problem. I worry about this because I have both a nephew and now an adopted son from Vietnam who are ages 15 and 13 and still haven't had the foreskin pull back naturally on its own.
Soooo -that's my story! I don't find the original question in this thread as clearly absurd as some seem to find it. As a huge advocate for abandoning circumcision, I can't ignore my anecdotal "pool" of data. I'm hoping for some answers to give my daughter that can fill in the whole picture, still holding that intact is always best!

 

I truly don't see why some teenage boys planning to have the surgery when they're older would be a reason to circ an infant, though. I've known teenage girls who plan to get breast implants, too - doesn't mean I'm doing them on my daughters.

post #110 of 133

@snip: My oldest intact son has grown into a man who has needed no special attention, nor did he ever have issues with separation. My youngest is far from a man (he's only 7), but he also had no issues, whatsoever.

 

Any man who is traumatized by having a foreskin can get it removed, if and when he makes the decision to do so.

 

I have also reported your post.

post #111 of 133

Hi Snip,

Welcome to MDC. It is obvisous, based on your username that you have an agenda. I do want to point out that you are posting in The Case AGAINST Circumcisions.

 

Quote:
consent. TCAC hosts discussion of the reasons to avoid circumcision, the history of the procedure, medical issues and studies, complications, the needs and rights of the child, care of the intact child's penis and other educational topics. We are not interested in hosting discussion on merits of routine infant medical circumcision.

Your posts are against the forum guidlines. If you continue to post in this manner your membership will be removed. I do hope you will stick around and educate yourself in regards to circumcision.

 

Take care,

QotM

post #112 of 133

It's good to see that in a forum, designed for public discourse, that one can be threatened with censorship for posting an opinion which disagrees with the majority.

 

It would be different if I had gone out of my way to be offensive or profane merely for the sake of it, but someone asked a question relating to circumcision, and I put in my 2 cents worth. Just like all of you did.

 

My only crime is that my 2 cents differs from most everyone else's.

Strike me down if you must.

 

Obviously, my username was a intended as a pun. I do not necessarily have an agenda relating to routine circumcision. 

 

I only wish that people would not be so quick to scorn and deride something that perhaps they do not fully understand. An interesting reply to my post was that circumcision was intended to discourage  masturbation.

 

It is ironic that if the foreskin was originally too tight to pull back, then the procedure would actually facilitate the very act it was intended to curb.

 

I am certain not every proponent of circumcision was, or is now, driven by megalomaniacal, self-righteous, religious motivations.

 

We shouldn't abandon something entirely just because it is less than ideal, or doesn't always work the way it was intended.

 

Like religion. Or democracy.

 

Or maybe even freedom of speech.

 

As you are entitled to your opinion, so am I to mine.

post #113 of 133
Many thanks for some good ideas from Michelle and Storm Bride. I think you may be onto something with scar tissue or sexual inexperience as possible issues. My son will no doubt be a good influence on my daughters future choices. As everyone suggests, we're all better off to allow nature Her own way unless clearly indicated otherwise. I don't mind questioning such as the original post in this thread because it allows us all to affirm our thoughts and understanding. "Snip" as you say is laughable....clearly absurd and not really worthy of discussion from those of us with conscience seeking a higher kind of existence for our selves and our families.
post #114 of 133

Snip-

You are welcome to your opinion, but when you joined MDC, you signed a user agreement.  Part of this agreement is that you will read and post within the UA and the forum guidlines.  Mothering represents certain ideals such a natural family living and attachment parenting.  There are many forums out there that support routine infant circumcision.  MDC does not and will not host that sort of discusion.  We can not be all things to all people.  Therefore, if you are uncomfortable with those guidlines, I'm sure there are other boards and forums where you would be able to have your say in support of circumcision. 

post #115 of 133

Snip, your posts show how little you know about the procedure, or what a healthy penis looks like, or how it works. Children masturbate since they are babies, and obviously a prepuce attached to the glans doesn't stop them, on the contrary. You don't need to pull it back in order to masturbate.

 

I find your posts rather sad. There are no valid arguments for circumcision. Even if you keep repeating to yourself that it makes for a "robust, mighty phallus", unfortunately it doesn't make it so. Not to offend anyone here, but the most famous lovers in history were Spanish, Italian, French where circumcision is mostly unheard of.

 

Please educate yourself. You sound like you are looking for some sort of validation, that circumcision MUST be right in some way. You won't find it here, but read the posts and links, they are enlightening.
 

post #116 of 133

I have two intact sons. My reason was because it was not my choice to begin with. When they are older and they decide they want it done; for cosmetic reasons.. fine.. let them.. But I don't have the right to do it to them .

Some babies are born with spadia and they need to use the foreskin to repair the opening that is off to the side instead of in the center.

 

The biggest problem I have about circing babies(among many other reasons) is that they are very sensitive to pain and their nervous system is immature and can't handle it. They go into a shock state because of it. Parent's don't understand just how painful it is to the baby.

Now I have a couple that I am teaching childbirth classes to and they want to circ there boy. I said that if you absolutely decide to do it then a good idea is waiting till the baby is 6 weeks and have it done under local anesthesia. Also, it will be better to wait since circ'ing at 2 days could interfere with breastfeeding success.

My sister's  BIL had a newborn baby boy undergo emergency surgery at 2 days of age because of a mistake made during his circumcision. His head of his penis was nearly severed off.

Understand that there are risks to any proceedure and that if something goes wrong; it could be serious. Why mess with it?

I hope this helps you in your decision making process

Carolyn Gall AAHCC

 

post note: Just wanted to affirm my stand on circumcision. I am not "for it" but when I became a childbirth teacher I had to adhere to the rules which mandate: A teacher can't tell the parents not to circ . It is a personal choice. We can only give them information and let them decide. (It breaks my heart when they tell me they are having it done:(


Edited by birthprep4u - 10/6/12 at 7:42pm
post #117 of 133

With regard to the circ'd men telling you to get it done; you have to bear in mind that they likely don't know any different than not having a foreskin, and possibly the only discussion they had with their parents about circumcision was that it's "just what you do" with newborn boys, hence their advice to you.

 

Just some thoughts on circ and decreased sexual pleasure:

 

All of the evidence increasingly suggests that circumcision is not only unnecessary, it also desensitizes the glans, making sexual activity less pleasurable.  Again, circ'd men don't know any different, so they wouldn't necessarily consider this factor when giving you their opinion.  If you look at the glans of circ'd men, it is generally a uniform pale pink, sometimes almost whitish in color, the skin having had to toughen up and adjust to a life of near constant rubbing and chafing, without the foreskin protecting it's sensitivity.  Conversely if you look at the glans of intact men, it is generally a rich purple/pink, sometimes some red too.  This indicates a healthy, sensitive penis, and this equals more pleasure.

post #118 of 133

With regard to snip's posting; Far from the "superfluous" foreskin attracting infection, nature intended it to exist to provide a valuable and natural function in protecting the penis FROM infection.  I'm not saying that snip is one of them, but I do think that there are circ'd men out there who have deep complex issues with the fact that their circumcision was out of their control, and are living through feelings of resentment as a consequence.  Occasionally this might manifest itself in strong denial and ardent pro-circ thinking to alleviate and counteract the negative and painful feelings.

 

As an intact man, I can tell you that I am grateful to my parents for keeping me that way.  But this was not even a decision they felt forced to make, because I was born in the UK where circ is not routine, and lo and behold (are you paying attention snip?), almost 100% of males go through life with no issues related to their natural state, the procedure of circumcision not even entering their minds.

 

If anything, I think snip's comments serve as reminder of how powerful pro-circ thinking has been in the US, and, how far we still have to go to educate and inform.

post #119 of 133

It always amazes me that for some, in the first instance of trouble with the foreskin, the very first thing that comes to mind is to cut it off, as if this was the only possible solution.  We would do this to virtually no other body part, yet some are content to do this to their son's penis, without even considering alternatives that have tremendous prospects for curing the foreskin ailment.  I find the talk of "statistics" in this thread quite humorous, especially "50%" of an individual's friends having difficulties with their intact natural state, requiring circumcision.  If there is any truth to this figure at all. it would only speak of the total ignorance of these poor boys' physicians, dealing with foreskin issues inappropriately and (coming back to the first part of this post) ultimately counseling their patients that circ is the solution, when an educated doctor would provide a whole host of alternatives before even considering amputation of the foreskin.

post #120 of 133

No circ here.  The more I learn, the more confident I am in the decision not to circ.  

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