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Does anyone regret NOT circumcising? *this is NOT a pro circ thread, just curious about the... - Page 2

post #21 of 133

Cyllya wrote:  "chances are his penis was harmed by his parents, doctors, and caregivers. If you spend twenty seconds educating yourself on proper penis care, all of those risks become non-applicable to your own child."

 

A woman posted on another board that her doctor had told her to  retract the foreskin and swab it and the glans with rubbing alcohol.  She said she finally stopped because of the screams of her child.  I can imagine!  The inner foreskin and glans is mucosal skin like the insides of the eyelids.  Imagine putting rubbing alcohol in your eyes!  She said that was the reason she was advocating for circumcision.  She would not accept that the doctor had told her wrong.

 

 

"Many men who were circ'd as babies have overly tight skin on their penis that make it painful to get an erection."

 

Yes, this is very common.  Most don't have painful erections but also don't realize another problem.  This foreshortened skin sleeve doesn't allow them to have full erections.  The entire penis is more than 50% inside the body.  A tight circumcision can keep even more inside the body thus the man never reaches his full erectile potential.  Men who restore their foreskins typically report gaining substantially in erectile length.  Most report 1/2" to 1" but some report more than 1 3/4".  Of course the men love this and I suspect their lovers value it.

 

"Sometimes the penis stretches down skin from above the penis, causing it to be abnormally hairy."

 

Yes, I've seen some awful pictures of this.  Most circumcised men have some hair on the shaft.  I remember one that had it all the way to almost the circumcision scar.  The unreaized problem is that that hair abrades the vaginal opening causing sex to be irritating or painful to his lover.  The intact man does not have this problem because the skin sleeve is not immobile.  It can slide up and down the entire length of the shaft quite easily.  This probably accounts for many women singing the praises of the intact penis.

 

"plus some doctors don't care if babies are in pain and therefore won't use anesthesia or won't wait for it to kick in, especially if the parents aren't present"

 

This is among the most disturbing things about infant circumcision.  Doctors pose themselves as being loving and caring professionals.  The latest survey shows that only 6% of newborns recieve pain management for the procedure.  It is rare for them to allow parents to be present for the procedure.  Wonder why?  Maybe it's to keep the parents from seeing the inhumanity?  So the parents won't tell other parents and ruin the carefully crafted personna of the caring professional?

 

"or won't wait for it to kick in"

Yes, doctors highly value their time.  It is recommended that the analgesic be allowed 20 minutes to take effect yet many will immediately start after the injection and be done well before 20 minutes have passed. 

 

"The reason people think it's better to circ babies is because they don't believe babies feel pain (hah!)"

 

You only have to watch one circumcision video to know babies feel pain.  It was doctors who started this myth and they knew it was not true.  As far back as 1980, research showed that infants feel pain more intensely than adults.  A 3 year old will fall but will not break skin, bruise or show other symptoms of injury but will cry intensely in pain.  That is evidence they are highly susceptible to pain.

 

"but by that logic, it's okay to violently abuse anyone under the age of two. In no other situation is it considered okay to inflict pain on someone just because they don't remember it"

 

In infants traumatic experiences permanently imprint that experience on the brain.  This is the reason circumcised infants show more response to childhood injections like vaccinations.  They actually perceive more pain and that perception interprets into real pain.

 

Parents who break fingers and arms, burn babies hands on hot stoves and do other things to injure their children are typically sent to prison.  Judges and juries pay no attention to memories of pain but convict a parent or doctor for the intentional pain of circumcision?  Not likely to happen.  That is because most of them are guilty of doing the same thing.

 

"Also, surgeries to repair botched circs are more common"

 

Yes, it amazed me a couple of years ago when someone directed me to a medical practice whose specialty was correcting botched circumcisions.  This made up more than 80% of the practice!

 

"Tiny Black Dot wrote:  "but it looks like (according to the posts on this forum at least) that there seem to be a few complications that go along with it. If not why are there so many posts about it?"

 

That is probably a lot my fault.  I found Mothering as fair and supportive.  I actually sent mothers here to get answers.  I didn't answer them in the forum where they were originally asking for information.  I valued Mothering and wanted to build readership here so I brought "customers."  The mother would come and get essentially the same information from multiple members here.  In just a short time, the membership here virtually exploded and MDC became the "go to" place for answers.  It also brought problems with leaving boys intact.  HOWEVER, those mothers all got helpful information and for several years, none of those boys were circumcised even though a doctor had prescribed it.  Not a single one!

 

"Then go read a forum full of parents who circumcised their kid."

 

Yes, there are internet forums that support circumcision.  It is amazing the number of problems cropping up.  Often there are no solutions to the problem or the problem is additional surgery.  It seems the mothers who have circumcised are adamant that circumcision was only a related action, not the instigating action and even after their child has suffered, are willing to let him suffer agaiin.  I particularly remember one mother who had her son circumcised, then circumcised again and yet again.  A total of 3 circumcisions for one child!  Never the less, she still adamantly supported circumcision and was ever trying to convince other mothers to circumcise their sons.  She repeatedly emphasized how it would prevent a later circumcision.  HAH! 

post #22 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

Also, I don't think there's any reason (if anyone knows otherwise correct me) that you can't drag them down to the doctor at any age and have them circ'ed.  I mean, if you can do it when they're two days old, why not 2 years or 12 years old?  So, even if you did somehow regret it...  The only thing I can see truly regretting would be the thing that can't be fixed later.

 

As the parent or legal guardian, you can force them to be circumcised up to 17 years and 364 days.  Even if they are fighting like a tiger.  The question is "would you do that?"  Probably not but what if the child was 14 years old and didn't want it? Or 8 years old? Or 5 years old?  Isn't part of the reason boys are circumcised in infancy is because they can't voice their objections?  I suspect so.

That begs the question "How will you possibly know what your son will want as an adult?"  What if he confronts you when he learns what you have done to him?  Will you be able to give him well researched legitimate answers?  Will he accept those answers?

 

But there is another scenario . . . The circumcision rate in The US has been falling the last ten years as parents learn.  In 2000, the circumcision rate was about 66%.  In 2009, the infant circumcision rate was 32.5% and expected to continue to fall  Boys born after 2007 or 2008 will be in the minority if they are circumcised.  This is sure to generate difficult questions for parents who do circumcise. 

 

These boys will have the same information available to them that you have available to you.  Will they believe the information from legitimate medical sources?  Probably so.  What is their determination likely to be?  There is little (virtually none) information from legitimate sources that support infant circumcision and this is what they will be faced with.  How will you handle that if you choose circumcision for your son?

 

>

post #23 of 133

My son is uncircumcised.  My husband and I knew that it would have been traumatic to his physical body and emotions.  We use a natural and non-toxic solution to cleanse him to prevent any infections.

post #24 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post

I agree with everything written so far. The idea of performing surgery on an infant on the very slight chance that he might need that operation as an adult is pretty silly, when you think about it. If the idea is to avoid surgery, why not avoid it completely? I didn't sign my babies up for appendectomies, even though several people in my immediate family have needed one.

 

YES.  This is what I was going to say.  Why do a painful, unnecessary, cosmetic surgery on a helpless unconsenting baby on the miniscule chance that there might be problems later?  With what other body part do we do this?  Absolutely none.  That's because it's irrational, IMO.

 

It's his body, and it's his choice.  That's always where I return when these debates come up.  The rest of it is good to know, but that's the most important thing.

 

That said, OP, thanks for feeling comfortable enough to come here and ask.  I'm glad you posted. thanks.gif

post #25 of 133
post #26 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HealthyHappyMom View Post

My son is uncircumcised.  My husband and I knew that it would have been traumatic to his physical body and emotions.  We use a natural and non-toxic solution to cleanse him to prevent any infections.

Would you please share what you use?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

And, welcome to MDC!  Welcome.gif

 

Sus

post #27 of 133

i also think that most later in life circs were probably unnecessary.  one time in his mid 20's dh's foreskin got stuck behind his head. of course the dr told him he needed to be circed, thankfully DH told him where to shove it
 

post #28 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HealthyHappyMom View Post

My son is uncircumcised.  My husband and I knew that it would have been traumatic to his physical body and emotions.  We use a natural and non-toxic solution to cleanse him to prevent any infections.

 

Me too. Ours is called water. :)

post #29 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HealthyHappyMom View Post

My son is uncircumcised.  My husband and I knew that it would have been traumatic to his physical body and emotions.  We use a natural and non-toxic solution to cleanse him to prevent any infections.

Bath water. And do not ever retract!
post #30 of 133

No, but I certainly regret having had them circumcised!  I think that most of the previous posters have made excellent points.  That is the way their bodies were born, and that is the way they should remain.  We did it--my husband had an opinion on the issue with our first born and I had not done much research.  It bothered me initially, but I just assumed that it was the way things were done.  In the end, we circumcised him.  I later read more and wished I had not been so willing to go against my own instincts.

The worst was having a second son and having to circumcise him to be like his brother--I know I could have made them different, but it meant more to me to have them the same.  Doing it the second time was just awful.  They're 9 and almost 11 now and so the decision is long past.  Still, there will always be an ache in my heart.  I would say that, if you are in doubt, just don't do it.  You could always have it done later.  

 

Maggie

post #31 of 133

Nope! I don't regret keeping them intact! It is their body, not mine, so if they want tatoos, peircings, surgeries, body alterations etc. they can do any of that when they are consenting adults.

 

The foreskin has a purpose! I read this awesome book (free to read online):

The foreskin is a sleeve to cover the glans (head) and keep it an internal organ! Why are parents so willing to continue this social habit, without stopping to think what this body part may be needed for? It is actually a very positive subject if you look at its function, its uses, and not look at what could potentially go wrong. Heck, something could go wrong with any body part if you look at it that way. Don't worry about any possible amputation of your son's foreskin, there are doctors out there that ARE smart about the care of intact penises, but you have to find one. If you cannot find one that knows, then you can be the right person for the job to educate them on what not to do to your son, and you could be helping other future parents out too. That is what I had to do with two doctors, tedious yes, but it is worth it. (I wish I could remember where I once saw a list of intact friendly doctors. Maybe someone will post a link for you.)
post #32 of 133
http://www.thewholenetwork.org/intact-friendly-doctors.html Here is a link to a pretty good intact Dr. list by state.
post #33 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyblackdot View Post

 I guess my concern is that i came to this thread looking for information and it seems like every other post is something about an infected penis, or UTI, or Dr saying a child needs a surgery. So to me its all good to say that circ isn't necessary, but it looks like (according to the posts on this forum at least) that there seem to be a few complications that go along with it. If not why are there so many posts about it?

Usually, there are no problems with intact penises (unless there is forced retraction, which, unfortunately, is common due to misinformation). Parents don't come here to ask questions about their lack of problems. So naturally, the majority of questions are going to be about problems (or perceived problems).

post #34 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyblackdot View Post

 I guess my concern is that i came to this thread looking for information and it seems like every other post is something about an infected penis, or UTI, or Dr saying a child needs a surgery. So to me its all good to say that circ isn't necessary, but it looks like (according to the posts on this forum at least) that there seem to be a few complications that go along with it. If not why are there so many posts about it?

I think , you should wait and see first ! IF your son has a problem , that could be bettered with circumcision , then do it ( I guess ) 

And if he grows up like a healthy little boy should , then don´t ! After all , it´s his wiener , not yours , and if he ever chooses to , or needs to , he can have the operation , when he gets old enough to make his own decisions 

post #35 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdancer77 View Post

 

My husband has reported that he wondered if he would be able to bond with him when he's older because they look different.  I'm sad that they "look different" but honestly, I more sad that my husband had no choice.  My son does.

 

My husband thinks this looking like dad thing is the craziest argument ever for circ'ing.  His dad was circ'ed, he was not.  He says that it would *never*, *never* cross his mind to compare his and his dad's penises.  And, looking back, I can see that, when was the last time I compared my genitals to my mother's?  Ewww!  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HealthyHappyMom View Post

My son is uncircumcised.  My husband and I knew that it would have been traumatic to his physical body and emotions.  We use a natural and non-toxic solution to cleanse him to prevent any infections.

 

I don't think I have ever used anything other than water, and not done any active sort of cleaning at all.  Child plays in the bath for an hour here and there, usually anywhere from twice a day (at his most water obsessed or on a boring day) to once a week if we're so busy we forgot to throw him in the tub.  I have never had any reason to worry about infections.

 

eta:  I have a 3 1/2 year old who is going to need general anesthesia for some serious tooth problems and we've known that he needed it since before he was 2 but we're waiting as long as possible so that he'll be bigger and stronger before the surgery and also so that we can talk with him more about happened afterward.  To me it makes no sense at all to do an elective surgery at the earliest possible moment.  I mean, circs are often done before the mom's milk has even come it.  Baby hasn't even figured out how to eat yet.  I hate to think about it...


Edited by rubidoux - 7/7/12 at 3:07pm
post #36 of 133

We use "my gentle baby aromatherapy care" that we buy from our practitioner.  It contains baby-friendly essential oils.  The container comes with a dropper top, so you can place a few drops on the head of his penis, no retracting necessary.

post #37 of 133

I bet *dads* compare themselves to their *sons* but not the other way around. Dad is changing diapers, helping his son toilet train, so has ample opportunities for comparison. Son is a baby/little kid, and probably will not even remember what dad's penis looked like if he saw it when he was toilet training. I don't think most fathers and sons habitually get naked together.

post #38 of 133

I don't regret leaving my sons whole any more than I regret leaving my daughter whole.  I think if a logical & reasonable person will think about it this way, then there is no argument.  I have however, read the 34 pages worth of posts thread of mothers who DO regret having had their boys circumcised.  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/112410/if-you-regret-circumcising-your-son-s-please-post-here

 

Sus

post #39 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HealthyHappyMom View Post

We use "my gentle baby aromatherapy care" that we buy from our practitioner.  It contains baby-friendly essential oils.  The container comes with a dropper top, so you can place a few drops on the head of his penis, no retracting necessary.

That's cool, although I do want to assure our OP, who already seems skittish about intact care, that this is NOT necessary. Just regular baths work fine.

post #40 of 133
No regret. Healthy intact boy. I think I would feel a lot of guilt if I did that to my son.
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