you are very mistaken, I have been dealing with toddlers for 3+ years- over 40 in fact- this is not the case even 10 years ago!
you are very mistaken, I have been dealing with toddlers for 3+ years- over 40 in fact- this is not the case even 10 years ago!
My oldest son is 12. When he went through the stage where he had to greet and talk to everyone, some kids responded, some didn't. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the rate of response to my now 2 year old when he sits out on the porch and says hi to everyone! Or talks to everyone at school pick ups, parks, etc.
Some kids want to play with my 2 yo, some kids don't.
Again, I think adults often assume that everyone acted a certain way... but social norms are learned... some cultures find it rude to smile at strangers... is that terribly rude of them, then?
Politeness is a cultural norm, not a moral issue.
My 2.5 year old would likely respond because he likes it when kids come up to him, but my 5 year old is very shy, and would not.
Young children (yes, even an 8 year old, IMO) don't have the social tools to know how to respond in an adult-appropriate way when in social situations. So the ignoring and silence could be taken to mean ''I don't want to talk to you'', ''I'm too shy to respond'', or even ''don't bother me''. All perfectly valid and fine, and no, I don't think a child should be forced or made to say hi if they clearly don't feel compelled to do so. Your daughter will eventually get it that not everyone wants to be friendly to her, and she'll be just fine.
It is NOT a question of manners. It's a question of social development.
My 2.5 year old would likely respond because he likes it when kids come up to him, but my 5 year old is very shy, and would not.
Young children (yes, even an 8 year old, IMO) don't have the social tools to know how to respond in an adult-appropriate way when in social situations. So the ignoring and silence could be taken to mean ''I don't want to talk to you'', ''I'm too shy to respond'', or even ''don't bother me''. All perfectly valid and fine, and no, I don't think a child should be forced or made to say hi if they clearly don't feel compelled to do so. Your daughter will eventually get it that not everyone wants to be friendly to her, and she'll be just fine.
It is NOT a question of manners. It's a question of social development.
I agree with this... and grace and courtesy are learned behaviors. But just because they don't play out in every instance to our expectation doesn't mean that they are not being taught.
I agree with this... and grace and courtesy are learned behaviors. But just because they don't play out in every instance to our expectation doesn't mean that they are not being taught.
I agree.
My 7yo talks to everyone. My 3yo wouldn't even talk to mine and my husband's best friends she has seen frequently since birth until recently. I don't know why. She was painfully shy and would hide from them. Then after she turned 3, something clicked and she became much more outgoing, but is still very reserved around some people. And she is now much more likely to strike up a conversation with an adult woman than a child her own age.
My husband and I teach and model manners and politeness - but we can't force our kids to do everything they've been taught every time, nor would I want to. I do want them to understand that not every stranger is a friend, and it's ok to be oneself and guarded if that's what's comfortable for them.
Hi. You are very fortunate to have a verbal and social child at such a young age. It sounds like she is really excelling with her development.
I recently had a conversation with another mom who was extremely upset because a mother brought her nine year old son into the women's bathroom to let him use it. That nine year old could have had the functioning of a five year old .. and in the town I live in, the store security person at a Walmart was recently arrested for video taping a little boy in the stall next to him.
I'll share the same thing with you that I shared with her ... sometimes our children LOOK perfectly "normal". Sometimes, under that perfectly "normal" looking child is a developmental disability which isn't visible to the eye. Anyway, Some brains process everything differently, some slowly, some brains don't have the ability to be social, some children cannot point, some are non verbal ... some wear the labels of pervasive developmental disability, autism, and others that are "not seen". Sometimes a "disability" is obvious such as down syndrome or cerebral palsy ... but other times, these "disfunctions" ... are not visible.
In my life, it is often troubling and difficult to know WHAT to say to someone when they smile at my child, wave at my child, speak to my child ... and he doesn't respond. Some BIG people are "rude" because before I get a chance to explain anything ... they say "why don't you teach your kid some manners".
My child doesn't "speak when spoken to". My child shuts down when approached by a stranger and he does this by having a blank stare and if they would push the issue or touch him ... then it turns into a scream. We're in therapy and we're working on this. He's not even TWO yet so we hold onto hope and prayers!
Anyway, this is NOT about us ... I just thought I'd share this so you could keep this in mind as your daughter meets different kids. Hopefully some of them will respond positively to her. I think the parents should at least speak to you and your child! None of us are alike and even those with "disfunctions" are going to have some amazing gifts. It sounds like she has some great social skills ... keep encouraging it!
Best wishes!
OP - if your dd is becoming somewhat distressed by other kids' reactions, what about brainstorming some other things to say AFTER her initial greeting. Like 'It's a great day to be at the park isn't it?', 'This is my favorite park', 'Do you want to climb on this with me?'. If she's seeking conversation or a playmate, a bit more than just 'hi' or introduction would help her get that across to someone else.
If she's just really enthusiastic about meeting people, even just 'I really love to meeting new kids at the park. I just wanted to say hi since I'm having a lot of fun today'.
As for what my own kids do, they might smile or say hi, or not (there are some park activities they get intensely into and don't like to be distracted about 
, or some days aren't as into playing with other people). I don't think the doing any one thing or not is or should be a problem. It's just a case of other kids doing their own thing and your dd doing hers, and it really won't always jive. Unless someone is being overtly rude, I don't think it's really about manners either.
I mean, if I were at a coffeeshop doing my own thing and someone came up and was all 'Hi, what's your name?' I wouldn't always be enthusiastic about a new interaction with someone I don't know. But sometimes I would be. And that should be okay, yk?
added: I just glanced through the OP again, too. In incidents when my dd's been approached by some other kid and is feeling timid, I often step in and will say that we're happy to meet you and not really in a mood to stop and talk/play right now. Something like that. I'd consider stepping in and say something like 'We love meeting other kids here, thanks for letting us say hi' in some cases if it seems appropriate.
Mumkinmum - I really like your suggestion to step in and say 'We love meeting other kids here, thanks for letting us say hi". I think that could make the approached child feel more comfortable about being approached with such enthusiasm and at the same conveying to my DD that the other child may not be in the mood for an interaction. Thanks!
I would HATE to think that other parents think my DS1 is being rude when he doesn't say 'hi' back, without knowing absolutely anything about him. .. In fact I would consider that to be quite rude. Such off-hand comment reminds me of a friend who has a severely disabled 8 year old and once she put him in a stroller, instead of a wheel chair, in order not to draw too much attention to him and his disability. Well, it didn't work as, almost immediately, she heard someone say "Look at that! I can't believe how lazy some parents are!" Of course, she snapped and made that person feel stupid for her comment.
I'm lucky that my DS1 is a normal child but he is painfully shy. He takes a while to warm up to others (even people he's met before). Once he does he is fine and social. DS2, on the other hand, is most likely to have the opposite (i.e. extroverted) personality despite the fact that our parenting style is the same. And don't get me wrong, we do model the behaviour for DS1 by being friendly towards others. I want him to be sociable and to find it easy to communicate with others. But he's not and I need to respect that that's who he is.
All I'm saying is, think before you judge. You're lucky to have a sociable little girl, but not all kids are the same.
I would HATE to think that other parents think my DS1 is being rude when he doesn't say 'hi' back, without knowing absolutely anything about him. .. In fact I would consider that to be quite rude. Such off-hand comment reminds me of a friend who has a severely disabled 8 year old and once she put him in a stroller, instead of a wheel chair, in order not to draw too much attention to him and his disability. Well, it didn't work as, almost immediately, she heard someone say "Look at that! I can't believe how lazy some parents are!" Of course, she snapped and made that person feel stupid for her comment.
I'm lucky that my DS1 is a normal child but he is painfully shy. He takes a while to warm up to others (even people he's met before). Once he does he is fine and social. DS2, on the other hand, is most likely to have the opposite (i.e. extroverted) personality despite the fact that our parenting style is the same. And don't get me wrong, we do model the behaviour for DS1 by being friendly towards others. I want him to be sociable and to find it easy to communicate with others. But he's not and I need to respect that that's who he is.
All I'm saying is, think before you judge. You're lucky to have a sociable little girl, but not all kids are the same.
If you had read all of my posts, you would have seen that I regret using the word rude and wish I had used another descriptive word.
Also, I started this thread to get ideas on how to help my DD deal with rejection, not go get lectured. If you have nothing constructive to add, please don't reply to my posts.
I have a very social little girl too, close to the same age as yours. She's very interested in manners and will often introduce herself, offer her hand and say "Nice to meet you!" Sometimes people reply, and sometimes they don't. I am not offended in the least when people don't feel like responding - especially strangers in public - and the way I help her deal with it is, first, to not make a deal of it at all. I ignore that it happened unless she seems confused, or if she keeps trying to talk to the person (ie doesn't get their clues that they're not interested), or if she mentions it to me. In those cases, I just shrug and say "I guess he/she doesn't feel like talking right now," or "Looks like he/she is busy doing something else." Then we move on. It's important to me that she realizes that everything's not all about her. We practice and model polite behavior no matter what the other person does, and I'm hoping she can learn from an early age to let this stuff roll off.
As a somewhat introverted person myself, though, I'm pretty sensitive to that. If a stranger came up to me in the produce section and said, "Hi, I'm Jane, what's your name?" I honestly would be a little taken aback. As an adult, I can deal with it gracefully, but a little kid may not have learned that skill yet. It sounds like your child has a natural talent and proclivity for verbal interaction, which is great and will serve her well! Other kids may have different strengths. I know that when I expect another child to do things the same way mine does, or to have the same things come easy, I end up really shortchanging the other child.
Like others have said, there are plenty of reasons a child or adult might not choose to respond or even smile, and it's almost certainly nothing personal. It can be hard to remember that sometimes when we see our precious little ones being so adorable and open, and getting squashed.
This has happened to my DD1 (age 9) so many times I can't believe it - with kids her own age. And I just watched it happen for the first time with my 23 month old (saying hi to a 5 and 7 year old who were NOT shy). While I agree that some children have stranger anxiety, especially young ones, I do not think that is the case primarily in what I have seen. I think there is some kind of cultural thing going on where children are learning unfriendliness. I have been just incredulous to watch this happen time and time again. You are not crazy!
I don't know where you live but the other thing is that we are on the east coast, and when we go home to OR to visit family, my daughter notices how friendly people are, they just talk to you.
And yeah. It does hurt my 9 year old. I commiserate with her that people are indeed not being friendly. Meanwhile, my 2 yo looks confused when this happens, not knowing if she's talking right :) - I don't want her to learn not to say hi. Ugh!
Katc, unfortunately we are around 2000 miles away, in Edmonton, Alberta,so I guess playdates are out of the question.
I'm sorry this thread got a bit off topic. I know I struggle with finding age appropriate ways to describe the nuances of social interaction to my social butterfly child too, and kind of try to ease the way both for her and for the other children involved. As a bit of an introvert myself, I definitely understand where they are coming from but that's hard to explain to a 3 year old who just wants to play! I really like Mumkimum's suggestions about helping your daughter develop some conversation starters too.
One thing that's really helped us is to find a nice, mixed age group of kids for her to play with on a regular basis. That way she has friends who know her and are more than happy to play with her, and exposure to various age groups really seems to help her develop some social strategies. I've also found that as she's matured a little over the last few months she's developing a bit of a softer touch so I don't worry about it as much as I used to. I'm usually pretty impressed by her ability to engage other kids without being pushy or demanding.
This has happened to my DD1 (age 9) so many times I can't believe it - with kids her own age. And I just watched it happen for the first time with my 23 month old (saying hi to a 5 and 7 year old who were NOT shy). While I agree that some children have stranger anxiety, especially young ones, I do not think that is the case primarily in what I have seen. I think there is some kind of cultural thing going on where children are learning unfriendliness. I have been just incredulous to watch this happen time and time again. You are not crazy!
I don't know where you live but the other thing is that we are on the east coast, and when we go home to OR to visit family, my daughter notices how friendly people are, they just talk to you.
And yeah. It does hurt my 9 year old. I commiserate with her that people are indeed not being friendly. Meanwhile, my 2 yo looks confused when this happens, not knowing if she's talking right :) - I don't want her to learn not to say hi. Ugh!
I'm also on the east coast, NJ. Perhaps it is a cultural thing. We were in CO last year and people are definitely more social and friendly there. I'm talking about adults, I don't remember any interactions with kids.
I have the same concern as you - I don't want my daughter to stop being social and outgoing (I was, and still am to an extent, pretty shy and introverted when around new people, when I was younger and I don't want that for her). The kids that she does know and play with regularly all love her because is is so friendly.
I also posted my concerns on an Attachment Parenting forum and was relieved to hear from other parents whose kids had gone through the same experiences and years later still remained social and extroverted.
This happens to our 3 yr old DD too. But, she also does it to other kids too!
I think part of it is that kids that little say hi by getting right up into others personal space. So other kids are taken aback.
And I think that kids that age want to be in control. When my DD says hi to others, she is in control. But if another kid comes up put of nowhere and days hi to her, all of a sudden it is someone in her space, she wasn't expecting it, and she is not in control of it. So she ignores them, or turns away, or just stares at them.
Sometimes I think that part of it is that kids do not necessarily understand her. My DD is VERY verbal. Talks in complete sentences that we have NO PROBLEM understanding. But others do not understand everything she says the first time. Sometimes it is hard for me to remember because we understand everything she says.
It doesn't seem to bother her too too much if it is a stranger. It seems to confuse her a bit, but not bother her.
But if it is a friend of hers, well, that bothers her. And she will just sit there repeating herself over and over again, getting louder and louder and will not drop it until the other kid says hi. This happened this weekend with a 4 yr old friend of hers. It was at a festival and he was already just chilling after being overwhelmed with thousands of people. I finally had to step in and go say hi to him and basically tell him DD was just wanting to say hi. He said Hi back and she was satisfied.
Katc, unfortunately we are around 2000 miles away, in Edmonton, Alberta,so I guess playdates are out of the question.
I'm sorry this thread got a bit off topic. I know I struggle with finding age appropriate ways to describe the nuances of social interaction to my social butterfly child too, and kind of try to ease the way both for her and for the other children involved. As a bit of an introvert myself, I definitely understand where they are coming from but that's hard to explain to a 3 year old who just wants to play! I really like Mumkimum's suggestions about helping your daughter develop some conversation starters too.
One thing that's really helped us is to find a nice, mixed age group of kids for her to play with on a regular basis. That way she has friends who know her and are more than happy to play with her, and exposure to various age groups really seems to help her develop some social strategies. I've also found that as she's matured a little over the last few months she's developing a bit of a softer touch so I don't worry about it as much as I used to. I'm usually pretty impressed by her ability to engage other kids without being pushy or demanding.
Too far for a playdate ideed :)
As I said to andromedajulie, I am also introverted and that makes it harder for me to watch these interactions because I so want my daughter to remain social and outgoing. I've struggled with my shyness all my life and always wished I could have been more social.
I am really looking forward to my daughter starting pre-school in September. I think the Montessori environment and the mixed age classroom will allow her to develop her social skills.
IME, this is largely due to your child's nature. I have 2 kids; I've modeled small talk/social niceties for both of them like crazy, I am a very outgoing, talkative person. The firstborn was outgoing and friendly from the get go like me and he picked up social queues right away; second born took until she was almost 5 to stop scowling, harumphing, and loudly saying, STOP LOOKING AT ME to people who tried to enngage her (other kids and adults). I was basically mortified on a regular basis in public with her from 2-5 yrs old, and spent a lot of time mitigating that to the poor people who tried to talk to her :lol:, and helping her through it. It was certainly not for lack of teaching. Now? She will talk to anyone and everyone about anything and everything. I can totally see kids her age (6) or even older, who may be otherwise "normal" kids, taking even longer to really get it. Acknowledging a person you don't know who approaches you in public requires a certain set of skills that not every person, and even fewer kids than adults, have...and only a part of this is "manners".
OP, for your daughter, I'd just focus on talking with her about how different people having different ideas about how to interact with strangers, and that she should go into any approach she makes being OK with saying hi and not getting a response back.
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