Leaning towards not vaccinating, is it very risky? Will our lifestyle have to change? - Page 2

[crayfishgirl]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

I'm glad to hear that. So I guess your daughter's cough did not turn out to be asthma? But if your kids don't have any chronic health problems, they are in the minority (or at least they would be in the United States). "An estimated 43% of US children (32 million) currently have at least 1 of 20 chronic health conditions assessed, increasing to 54.1% when overweight, obesity, or being at risk for developmental delays are included" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1876285910002500 And of course the percentage is higher than 54.1%, because the study did not cover every chronic health problem that exists.

Without wanting to change the subject of the thread to this citation, the "chronic health conditions" considered in this paper are not what I would characterize as a chronic condition (e.g. environmental and food allergies; these were the most commonly listed next to obesity).  I think one should be careful about reading too much into these numbers.  My son might be allergic to bannanas, but has had only one cold in his 19 months.  By this evaluation, he has a chronic condition that is solved by avoiding banannas (which are gross anyway).  He's vaccinated, although I'm highly doubtful his propensity to vomit when he eats banannas is related to his vaccination status.  My daughter is also vaccinated and has none of the chronic health conditions evaluated. 

[marsupial-mom]

Originally Posted by crayfishgirl 

Without wanting to change the subject of the thread to this citation, the "chronic health conditions" considered in this paper are not what I would characterize as a chronic condition (e.g. environmental and food allergies; these were the most commonly listed next to obesity).  I think one should be careful about reading too much into these numbers.  My son might be allergic to bannanas, but has had only one cold in his 19 months.  By this evaluation, he has a chronic condition that is solved by avoiding banannas (which are gross anyway).  He's vaccinated, although I'm highly doubtful his propensity to vomit when he eats banannas is related to his vaccination status.  My daughter is also vaccinated and has none of the chronic health conditions evaluated. 

Bananas are NOT gross! They are yummy! My husband hates bananas too. I simply don't understand people like you and him when it comes to bananas :)

On the topic, for the OP: I would vaccinate. However, if you're not going to then I'd say don't shelter the kids any more than usual EXCEPT the baby when it's newborn. I think I'd wait longer before taking an unvaxed newborn out into the public.

On the flip side, you may not need to shelter your own kids but you might want to consider keeping them away from other kids who are immunocompromised. Unvaxxed kids are more likely to spread VPD to immunocompromised kids.

And of course, all parents should teach their kids to wash their hands and cover their coughs as well as to stay away from kids who are sick. So do that, too :)

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

you might want to consider keeping them away from other kids who are immunocompromised. Unvaxxed kids are more likely to spread VPD to immunocompromised kids.

Recently vaccinated kids (within the last month with live virus vaccines) are more likely to transmit something to immunocompromised people than unvaccinated kids who are not currently sick. But people are almost never told to keep their recently vaccinated children or their recently vaccinated selves away from immunocompromised people.

[Rrrrrachel]

Actually virus transmission through "shedding" is extremely uncommon. Absolutely less common than transmission from non vaccinated parties. That being said, I don't buy the argument that an individual non vaccinated person/child is a hazard, although increasing rates of non vaccination do threaten public health.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Actually virus transmission through "shedding" is extremely uncommon. Absolutely less common than transmission from non vaccinated parties. 

Absolutely less common than transmission of a random VPD when an unvaccinated child is not showing any symptoms of illness?

From the FluMist package insert: "the probability of acquiring a transmitted vaccine virus was estimated to be 2.4%" 

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM123743.pdf (page 12)

[pek64]

Originally Posted by crayfishgirl 



Without wanting to change the subject of the thread to this citation, the "chronic health conditions" considered in this paper are not what I would characterize as a chronic condition (e.g. environmental and food allergies; these were the most commonly listed next to obesity).  I think one should be careful about reading too much into these numbers.  My son might be allergic to bannanas, but has had only one cold in his 19 months.  By this evaluation, he has a chronic condition that is solved by avoiding banannas (which are gross anyway).  He's vaccinated, although I'm highly doubtful his propensity to vomit when he eats banannas is related to his vaccination status.  My daughter is also vaccinated and has none of the chronic health conditions evaluated. 

How is a food allergy *not* a chronic condition? Do you believe it will go away? Some claim their children's food allergies have gone away, but certainly not all! Mine have increased in severity over time, although started in childhood.

[nia82]

OP, we selectively vaccinate after 24 months. In the first 24 months, we don't shelter. The vax status doesn't change what we do. We flew to California and to Europe multiple times. My older child attended preschool from 2.5 years on.

Whether vaccinated or not, the first few weeks of a newborn I avoid playgroups and such because of all kinds of diseases out there that are tougher for newborns. When DD was born, 5th disease was going around in town, so was croup, and I wouldn't want a newborn having to deal with that! Overall, we wash our hands when we come home, eat a healthy whole foods based diet with little carbs/sugar, use great vitamins and supplements (multi, D, zinc for the kids) and play a lot outside.

OT, but I consider a food allergy or any allergy for that many to be a chronic health issue. A healthy child to me suffers from absolutely no allergies, immune disorders, delays in any way. Like back in the days when I was growing up, I didn't even hear the word allergy. So I would consider my children to be free of chronic health issues - no allergies, sensitivities, rarely sick (no ear infections, pneumonia, rashes, eczema and so on). I'm not suggesting it's all vaccine's fault, but I am deeply concerned about the state of health of kids nowadays. Something is happening to all those children with allergies and worse health issues that wasn't around when I was a kid.

[Turquesa]

OP, I'm answering your question as a selective vaxxer, meaning that I believe there's a time and place for vaccinating, so you know my bias.

To me, the most confounding factor here would be travel. If you're dead set on never vaccinating, there are certain parts of the world that you might want to avoid. I would look up any country that you're considering visiting, distinguish between the "recommended" v. "required" vaxxes, and gather data on cases of vaccine-avoidable diseases. It will be up to you, but there may be a breaking point at which you consider vaxxing for certain diseases or staying out of an area altogether. Vaccine-avoidable diseases are very real in parts of the world with poor water and sewage systems and sub-standard medical care. But even first-world countries get a fair amount of endemic measles, so just do your research and decide from there.

Also, keep in mind that one of your kids may grow up and want to volunteer abroad at, say, an orphanage. Would you be OK with your teen making the choice to vax, or would you just keep him/her home? Of course, even getting travel vaccines isn't a guarantor of safety. I went to South America vaxxed for Hep A and ended up with salmonella. Blech! So there will always be common-sense precautions to take; I'm pretty sure I got sick from tainted meat.

Anyway, just some thoughts to consider!

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by alegna 

I don't know any non-vaxing families who shelter their non-vaxed children.  My kids are totally unvaxed and we go and do everything we would otherwise.  We do homeschool but that is an education decision not a health decision.  I would be perfectly comfortable health-wise with my kids in school.

same here.  its not even something i think about.

[boomer78]

To add to the chronic issues debate - I do see a food allergy as a chronic health issue. Just saying. :)

OP - Our 3 y.o. dd (unvaxed except for the hepB dose at birth) has never been sheltered in any way. The first month she mostly stayed at home, but that's more of a common sense and being convenient. We have been on a few flights. The first time we traveled with her was when she was 4 m.o. She attends classes, I don't limit what she touches too much (except for things like garbage cans out in the public or public toilets - just for the gross factor), she is around kids a lot. Even sick kids, she never catches anything.

Granted I bf her until recently (still would but dried up due to another pregnancy), we eat and live healthy - we would do that anyway though, regardless of her vax status. We do wash our hands after we come back home from a store, the mall, playground etc. but that we would also do regardless. She eats when we're out and about, sometimes I wipe her hands, sometimes I don't. I also give her vitD3 in the winter (not every day), vitC and probiotics - none of it daily though, just randomly.