Your thoughts on MDC's vax forum!

[Mosaic]

As y'all know, we're toying with ideas on how to make the Vaccinations forum on MDC work better for everyone.

In order to do that, we'd like to know more about YOU and get your insight on what's working, what's not working, what's important, and what both long-term and brand-new members need out of a vaccination forum. We've mentioned ideas like collapsing everything into one big forum, setting up social groups, etc., and this information will hopefully clarify what would be most helpful.

Let's keep this positive and focused on what *you* want and need while kinda avoiding debate on what we think others want/need, ok? Choose all that apply and, of course, please post with more info if needed!

[purslaine]

Hey,

Re: structure.

I think a non-vax and pro-vax forum would work best.  It could be run similar to the education forum - with learning at school and learning at home.  If you are up for three forums - pro, non and general (which may be the debate area where both camps post)

 I have no issue with the selective/delayed forum, but am aware MDC is looking at lessening the number of forums.  I do think a lot of sel/could could fit in pro or non vax.  

what flu shot did you use?  - pro vax

any tips on talking to my doctor about skipping CP? - non vax.

I have little use for the research forum atm- although I know the powers that be like it.  It might turn into a place to post research/cool links that you just want to share (but not debate) - which would be OK.  They could ultimately be archived.

I don't have huge issues with the current structure, though.

Edited by purslaine - 7/3/12 at 7:40pm

[Rrrrrachel]

I (usually) enjoy the opportunity to interact with people I disagree with. Someone like nukuspot, for example, came to a different conclusion than me but has good information that she presents rationally. Conversations with her tend to be rational disagreement where I feel like I learn something. She's not the only one, just the first that came to mind. Part of me thinks we just need tighter moderation (although in general I don't like tons of moderation) at least for a little while, and they're need to be actual and immediate consequences for people who make personal comments, like a 24 hour time out. Things get out of hand when people feel like "the other side" is allowed to get out of line without consequences. Then they feel like they have to stick up for themselves. General warnings don't work. I needs to be a pm specifically to that person.

[nukuspot]

Thanks Rachel! I feel the same way in reverse. I come to MDC to both try to help others who are trying to make this tough decision in order to be able to share my research with them as well as to hear well thought out information from the "other side" and have discussions about current vaccination related events in the world. I think it's important to stay on top of current events, research, and hear opposite viewpoints for me so I can continually examine my decision to not vaccinate and see if it still feels right to me. MDC is the only place I know where I can get that. So for that reason I totally agree with everything Kathy says. I'd like to see a pro vax forum even though I am a non vaxxer.

[nukuspot]

However I do think that there should still be a selective/delayed sub forum too. So a pro vax, a S/D, a non vax sub forum would make sense and a general forum for anything else like posting links or new research.

[SweetSilver]

I really love reading the back and forth debates.  While I might personally want support for my decisions, I find the those support-type threads less informative in general.  

It is almost a moot point at my home because we have not continued vaccinating due to extreme needle shyness, not any disagreement with vaccinations specifically.  So, it is their choice based on their limited information, backed by my consent based on more information.  Makes sense?  I'm reading these threads to learn more about vaccinations for older children, teens and adults so that I hope I can help them make decisions in the future, or get nervous enough to put my foot down and have them vaxxed over their objections (unlikely so far).  That's what I get out of the MDC vax forums.  

So, I like the debates even though they sometimes digress and get testy.  I've been in enough verbal debates that this kind of digression doesn't phase me much, especially when I am on the sidelines.  I really like the formal debate threads that are coming up.  I find them challenging and informative and extremely helpful.  

Everyone in general seems to be on their best behavior, and if it continues this way perhaps it matters less how the forums are structured.  Perhaps it is because of the increased moderation, perhaps the threads introduced by the moderators themselves, like the formal debate threads. For whatever reason, the personal jabs seem to have subsided.

[MamaMunchkin]

Merge the general forum and research forum.  Have something like discussion forum instead - debates go here.

Add pro-vax forum.

Non-vax stays.

Sel/del stays.

For regular posters, re-structuring won't do much.  Most probably have some ideas where/what to post.  However, for a newbie poster, without the general forum, they have to choose which sub-forum to go to and will be more likely getting the support/info they need.

[Adaline'sMama]

I think we only need a vax forum with a subforum for "we're not vaccinating." IMO, all other topics about vaccinations fall under the catagory of "Vaccinations". After all, what would the Vaccination forum be for if we had a sub forum for pro and anti vax. Plus, lots of us are selective/delayed, so do we really need three forums for three different ways people feel about vax?

Were not vaccinating should cover issues like telling your family you arent vaxing, trying to get religious exemption in schools situations, dealing with other people who make comments about you not vaxing, ect. Research about the pros or cons of certian vaccines should go in the main forum. Just my opinion. I think MDC is getting way too spread out for the amount of people we have regularly posting.

[eireann]

I like the forum as is, but am open to anything that promotes the most current information and the many sides to the issue. There are just people who clearly have not researched enough but are 1000% certain of their statements, and that's when arguing rather than healthy back and forth happens. Ignorance is infuriating, especially to those of us who have spent hours researching MANY sources and looking for a counterpoints to our beliefs to challenge them, rather than blindly support them. 

I tend to think we mix science, experience, and instinct when making these decisions. It's hard when people believe everything they read on the internet or worse Wikipedia, then use that in discussion as gospel truth. Again, that's where problems start. I think if you vaccinate and love to extoll your figures and links, don't go into the I'm Not Vaccinating forum and post. Likewise, if you are not vaccinating, or more specifically, if you are vehemently ANTI any and all vaccinations, refrain from posting in Delayed/Selective or in a post where someone is considering their options. Again, that's fire starting and can only lead to arguing, and many times no one is looking to argue, but rather to further their own knowledge in some way and get other's experiences. If an additional subforum can prevent the arguing, great. I just don't know what forum that would be specifically.

[fruitfulmomma]

I like adeline'smama's suggestion...questions, debates, research, etc... all in one area with a sub-forum for those of us who want discuss life as a non-vaxxing parent without the constant back and forth. 

[amnesiac]

I think I'd be a fan of one vax forum plus vaxing/non-vaxing/S&D social groups.

[Goddess3_2005]

Personally as a long time member I think it's BS that there is even a pro vax discussion here. Mothering has always been anti vax and selective vax. It was a safe haven for all us educated thoughtful mamas to get away from the mindless drivel of proaxers. You have scared away your readership, thus why your magazine ailed. I say go back to the crunchy haven you used to be and stop pandering to mainstream ideas!

[stik]

Not all long-time members were anti-vax.  Lots of people are crunchy in a variety of ways.  For example, I had intervention-free births, co-slept with my kids when they were little, cloth diapered, wore my babies, and breastfed well past infancy.  Also, I vaccinate. 

Goddess3_2005, your post is really offensive.
 

[katelove]

Originally Posted by Goddess3_2005 

Personally as a long time member I think it's BS that there is even a pro vax discussion here. Mothering has always been anti vax and selective vax. It was a safe haven for all us educated thoughtful mamas to get away from the mindless drivel of proaxers. You have scared away your readership, thus why your magazine ailed. I say go back to the crunchy haven you used to be and stop pandering to mainstream ideas!

According to the mods (sorry can't remember where this question was asked and answered but it was fairly recent) Mothering is pro-informed choice when it comes to vaccination. The only thing it does not support is *mandatory* vaccination.

[MichelleZB]

Originally Posted by Goddess3_2005 

Personally as a long time member I think it's BS that there is even a pro vax discussion here. Mothering has always been anti vax and selective vax. It was a safe haven for all us educated thoughtful mamas to get away from the mindless drivel of proaxers. You have scared away your readership, thus why your magazine ailed. I say go back to the crunchy haven you used to be and stop pandering to mainstream ideas!

Vaccinations are an ingenious achievement of biological science one could hardly call mindless. Not sure why you wrote what you did about mothers who vaccinate being uneducated or thoughtless. I am a parent and science enthusiast who is genuinely excited about vaccines. I enjoy MDC because I breastfeed exclusively and on demand, cloth diaper, didn't circumcise, gave birth vaginally with minimal interventions, etc.

I didn't do any of these things because they went against the mainstream. I did them because I found them to be sensible. In fact, here in Canada, leaving your son intact IS mainstream, but I'd argue, not at all mindless. I often rebel from the norm, but not for its own sake.

I find that, while many "crunchy" mom groups used to avoid vaccination, that is changing as research continues. You may have to put up with us in your playgroups, Goddess_3. It isn't 2005 anymore.

Magazines are failing everywhere because people are moving online.

As to this forum, I'd be in favour of fewer subgroups, probably. 

[eireann]

Originally Posted by MichelleZB 

Vaccinations are an ingenious achievement of biological science one could hardly call mindless. Not sure why you wrote what you did about mothers who vaccinate being uneducated or thoughtless. I am a parent and science enthusiast who is genuinely excited about vaccines. I enjoy MDC because I breastfeed exclusively and on demand, cloth diaper, didn't circumcise, gave birth vaginally with minimal interventions, etc.

I didn't do any of these things because they went against the mainstream. I did them because I found them to be sensible. In fact, here in Canada, leaving your son intact IS mainstream, but I'd argue, not at all mindless. I often rebel from the norm, but not for its own sake.

I find that, while many "crunchy" mom groups used to avoid vaccination, that is changing as research continues. You may have to put up with us in your playgroups, Goddess_3. It isn't 2005 anymore.

Magazines are failing everywhere because people are moving online.

As to this forum, I'd be in favour of fewer subgroups, probably. 

While I understand how the tone of that might have been a bit harsh, the poster didn't call vaccines mindless, but rather what people who are "pro" vaccination say without much thought. The poster also didn't call them uneducated, but rather that being someone who doesn't or selectively vaccinates has made that decision after educating themselves on the issue. Calling one educated doesn't always equate with putting the other side down. Putting words into someone's mouth is sure to propel this further into a bad place, though I understand how it could be read that way.

I think it's more about the people who make blanket statements about those who do not vaccinate as being selfish, believing in bunk science, Jenny McCarthy or Wakefield followers, etc etc...all the easy outs, which really IS drivel and judgmental. It may also be directed at those who come here SPECIFICALLY to try to prove non vaxers research and beliefs wrong, despite knowing that this really is THE safe haven for the minority who don't vaccinate. It gets old to read posts filled with links we've all seen, analyzed, and made our minds up about long ago. It's like, "We get it. You can search the internet. And clearly you believe everything you read. Congrats. What is your point?"

For the record, I am not anti vaccination. At all. The decisions DH and I have made are based in DH's genetics and family history. I just have to shake my head at those who seek out a forum to fire start, whine about not having their voice heard when their voice is the voice of the mainstream, and make uneducated statements (uneducated based on lack of experience being a vaxer and never experiencing what it's like to not be one, NOT that they are dumb, lesser intelligence, etc.) It gets really old to read the SAME STUFF over and over again. It's kind of like a meat eater going to a vegan forum and trying to prove all the ways they are wrong. It makes no sense to do so, and if you want to debate, go join a debate team. Or maybe find a hobby...

[MamaMunchkin]

Originally Posted by stik 

Not all long-time members were anti-vax.  Lots of people are crunchy in a variety of ways.  For example, I had intervention-free births, co-slept with my kids when they were little, cloth diapered, wore my babies, and breastfed well past infancy.  Also, I vaccinate.

Originally Posted by MichelleZB 

I find that, while many "crunchy" mom groups used to avoid vaccination, that is changing as research continues. You may have to put up with us in your playgroups, Goddess_3. It isn't 2005 anymore.

I see - so, have you somehow felt judged, or not accepted, for being not-crunchy enough because you vax, here in MDC?  In real life?  Not a snark, truly trying to understand.

[Rrrrrachel]

I have been flat out told I'm not "crunchy" enough because I vaccinate. Heck, I've been told I'm not much of a mother because I vaccinate.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I have been flat out told I'm not "crunchy" enough because I vaccinate. Heck, I've been told I'm not much of a mother because I vaccinate.

And some of us have been told that we deserve to have our children taken away from us because we don't vaccinate, and/or deserve for our children to DIE because of our choices.  That we are abusive, uneducated, and unworthy of health and happiness, and that our choices put everyone around us at risk for illness. 

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm not trying to play low status, someone asked and I answered.