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What would you do if you were being hunted... - Page 2

post #21 of 51

If she takes the advice to flee, manufacture documents and live outside the system, she risks having all custody taken away from her and full custody given to her abusive ex. If what she says about the body order is true, then if she's ever pulled over, she's going to lose her child, even temporarily.

 

Right now, she lives in another state and the ex has not exercised any parental rights. With a decent lawyer, and the evidence from the previous restraining order, she's got a good chance of getting full custody and another restraining order, and getting the body order (whatever the heck that means) removed. Right now she's living in fear because of something someone at the courthouse told her.

post #22 of 51
How can she get a good lawyer, if she can't pay for one herself? What questions can she ask to determine the lawyer's ethics and intentions?
post #23 of 51

Contrary to mass conditioning, there is absolutely nothing illegal about asserting your Constitutional Rights, a MINIMAL amount of research

details the process of those that have successfully taken full responsibility for their lives in that regard.  

 

Unfortunately, those compelled to do so have suffered immensely before seeking answers to their plight and wish to share experiences gained through pain.  

 

Perhaps one day, when a fellow woman is in fear for her and a child's safety, she will no longer be referred to those that would cripple her financially, emotionally, and spiritually....Shelters are often run like prisons where your holistic parenting practices are not tolerated and failure to comply with every expectation leads to further constraint, intervention and eviction.   

 

Those of you who have not had your soul shredded by a man, who feels empowered by subjugating you in every possible way, may respect

those of us who have.  Consider seeking to understand before you form a lynch mob hmmm?

 

Solutions that do not further bind us to men who mean us harm, regardless of the accepted degree of such, would be considerably more helpful than blind accusations indicating criminal activity and cowardice.

 

I hope others in similar circumstances find better support here....I knew better. 

post #24 of 51

Is it just me, or has there been a spate of low-post-number people coming up with these completely BONKERS stories, trying to wrench everyone's heartstrings, and then taking absolutely NO advice when it's offered?

 

Yes, I know I also have a comparatively low number of posts...pot, kettle, black...but if I asked for help, I also wouldn't be shooting down every logical chunk of support offered to me only to say, "Yes, Captain Wackadoodle! I will manufacture documentation and try to manipulate the system in much the same way I feel my ex-partner will manipulate the system! Life on the run, girls gone wild! But I'm not wacko, HE IS!" And I'm not discounting that you're a victim. Two wrongs don't make a right, though, no matter how well-meant.

 

The rest of this is probably harsh, but...Your child's safety shouldn't devolve into a game of who can screw whom the most.

 

If you really don't want to go to a women's shelter for a lawyer, fine. Don't. Find a women's advocacy group. Go to a local law school and ask if they can recommend a pro bono attorney or court liason. Go to a physician who specializes in health care for abused women and ask if they can recommend any lawyers. The doctor I see actually carries a list of recommendations solely because her practice specializes in healing for traumatized/victimized women. If you're of a faith or spiritual persuasion, go to a large or major facility for that faith and ask for legal recommendations. Virtually any socio-cultural group (race, ethnicity, religion, political persuasion, etc) you can think of will offer suggestions to its members regarding legal affairs, with the caveat that they assume no responsibility for outcomes.

 

Just because one shelter sucked doesn't mean they all will, nor is it an excuse for you to hurl yourself so far outside the system that if you're found out, you're virtually guaranteed to lose your child. You're IN the system, like it or not, because that body attachment, warrant, court order - IT EXISTS. You cannot avoid it forever; eventually you're going to need health care or have a change in employment or school status, residence, or utilities that will NECESSITATE some sort of official process, and you'll more likely than not be found. Do you really want it to look like you were scheming and plotting and planning ways to actively avoid your legal dealings?

 

Put on your big-girl undies and get AHEAD of this before it rains down ruination. (I am grumpy because I work with kids who come from families JUST LIKE THIS, and without fail, the kids have SO MANY issues...if mom and/or dad just dealt with life as it came up, Every. Single. Person. Involved. would be so much better off...)  Anyone wanna pour me a drink?  duh.gif

post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidMommy View Post

 Anyone wanna pour me a drink?  duh.gif

I'll pour you a drink, Squid, and to everyone else on this thread with a grip (so many, but you know who you are).

 

You know, MotheringBliss (yes, talking to you), when people start throwing around "constitutional" stuff, I have to shake my head in disbelief at the total lack of misunderstanding that people have who throw around "constitutional rights" theories, etc, especially when those theories are based on concepts outside the tri-parte government that "we the people" have established (including hundreds of years of precedent where rights have been evaluated and established).  It exhibits a total and complete misunderstanding of the law and the law of the land (which includes the Constitution).  I'm not mass conditioned, MotheringBliss (and your accusations of such make me LOL), I've had time in my life to consider all sides and I know and firmly believe in a society which defends victims and prosecutes criminals.  My guess is that you're less concerned about the truly disenfranchised in our society, and more concerned about making sure the "Man" doesn't tell you what to do.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen this rhetoric elsewhere (the whole constitutional rights contingent).  In most of these circumstances, these people care more about their own rights than the rights of others.  Sorry, but the Constitution doesn't work that way.  It's not a one-way street.

 

I don't say this a lot on MDC (because usually it's irrelevant), but I'm a lawyer and have been for a long time.  I'm well versed in the law and I know what it means to defy and ignore the law.  A lot of us go into law because we believe in justice and the just application of the law.  You want to call that mass conditioning...be my guest.  My ethical duty to my clients is to get the best result for them given their circumstances, even if they think they can get around the law or avoid it (which is wrong and produces a worse result).  I would never give advice to someone when it goes against my ethical duties and my oath to uphold certain legal principles.  I don't need some schlock legal theorist who is not subject to a duty of care or duty of professionalism to tell me I'm mass conditioned.  

 

My rant over, I again say that there are solutions to OP's problem.  The solutions involve other things than the stuff that "others" here have proposed.  There are people that care in the world, even "men", goddamitt.  If OP needs help, she will find help, because there's plenty of it.  If she wants to avoid the law and run under the radar, then perhaps she will be running for the rest of her life. Not something that I would choose.  Why?  Because there are good people out there...there are people who want to help and believe in justice.  If you want to take the road the everyone is against you, fine.  I happen to know better.  Perhaps I'm "mass conditioned."  Who knows?  Good lord, can't even believe I'm having this conversation at MDC.  

 

Sorry, edited to say that I'm very fairly mean here, but I get so frustrated when really bad (and illegal) advice is given to others and people buy into the concept.  This stuff really matters to me.  I feel so frustrated.  I'm signing off here.


Edited by CatsCradle - 7/18/12 at 7:49pm
post #26 of 51
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the chances of getting a better lawyer next time?
post #27 of 51

I agree with the others, go to a women's shelter.  I was involved with one many years ago and there are more there in your situation than you could believe.  I will pray for you and the little one...God be with you

post #28 of 51

Pek: All she has to do is communicate. State her expectations, her ability to pay or not pay, differentiate between what she WANTS versus what she NEEDS, and be willing to walk away from several bad-fit lawyers until she finds the one/ones who is/are right for her. Just like MDC says "fire" a midwife or OB or doctor who doesn't want to work WITH you...she can do the same.

Not all lawyers charge up-front fees, or any fees at all. She has very little to lose by saying, "Here is the honest-to-truth situation in my life, and I need A, B, and C in order to keep custody and be safe. However, I want X, Y, and Z, but they aren't absolutely 100% necessary. What can we do together?" The lawyer isn't going to call up her ex afterwards and give him a home address and telephone number. Sheesh.

I feel like we're all up in arms over the plot of some sh!tty Lifetime made-for-TV movie. Gah.  puke.gif
 

post #29 of 51
I am glad some constructive advise (more than simply 'go to a shelter') was finally given! It is a shame it was not stated with a bit more reserve.

As someone who was raised being verbally, psychologically, and emotionally abused, I can tell you that I am only learning now that I have the right to stand up for myself in family situations. I imagine for some, all situations may be difficult, or those involving authority figures. To someone just beginning the process, the instinct to avoid confrontations would be great. The tone of the posts suggesting working within the system would make working within the system less appealing. Even the last advise was offensive with the vomiting animation.
post #30 of 51
My first choice would be to get a better lawyer.

My second choice would be to expatriate.
post #31 of 51

I want to make sure this thread sticks to the issue at hand.  Please refrain from personal attacks and nasty comments.  If you wish to debate the information given, please do so in a respectful helpful way.  Don't debate the poster, debate the post.  Thanks.

 

Edited to add, if you want to discuss this, please PM me so that the thread doesn't go off on another tangent.  And seriously, I'm just addressing the thread in general, no one in particular.  smile.gif


Edited by QueenOfTheMeadow - 7/20/12 at 7:32pm
post #32 of 51

Sorry, deleted post because it was super argumentative and no good would appear to come from it anyway.  


Edited by CatsCradle - 7/20/12 at 8:18pm
post #33 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

How can anyone be concerned about the legal rights of such an abusive man? Should he have unsupervised visitation so he can abuse the child, too? And repeatedly, until there is sufficient evidence to finally end the abuse (if there ever is before the child dies as a result of abuse). That kind of thing can and has happened.

 

 

Thank you for this! I expected a lot more helpful support when I decided to post about my situation. Honestly, it's so disheartening to see that several other women not only don't support, but believe the court system can provide me and my child with safety. I've been in the realm of the courtroom for a protective order from my ex and it was removed for the sole reason that my ex lives out of state, even though the judge emphasized finding favor with the truth of my case. I was stunned that after she said she found favor with my case that she removed it. My heart sank and my fear rose to an all time high. I've spoken with several attorneys who want to represent me, but strongly believe he will get parenting time and after my child turns two, the law allows the child to be taken out of state. I don't have a doubt in my mind that I would never see my child again...dead or alive. My ex threatened my life and physically abused me while I was pregnant and previous to my pregnancy. I can't risk my life or my child's life. Men who threaten their partner's life or a child's life often times follow through when they've been "crossed," from their point of view. And because they're so manipulative and crafty, it's incredibly difficult to document the abuse because sometimes the wounds are emotional punches and psychological manipulation. 
 
Thank you again for your support. It means more than you know. 
post #34 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stTimeMama4-4-10 View Post


Because we live in a society in which the accused are not automatically assumed to be guilty. If this guy is as bad as the OP says he is, the court system will support her. But if you flip it around and only listened to his side without giving her a chance to respond, that would be a major violation of her rights. Being abusive does NOT deprive a parent of his/her rights until and unless they have an opportunity to contest the charges in open court. If you think about it, that really is the only civilized way to handle these volatile situations. That's why the longer the OP refuses to comply with court orders the worse it will be. I am genuinely afraid for this child in light of OP's decision to ignore the good advice given in this thread in favor of the crazy illegal advice suggested by one poster who clearly has no grasp of the American legal system.

True. And that is why rapists and murders walk to street with freedom that their victims no longer have. The court system cannot support something I have little evidence to prove. In many instances, when a man petitions for custody or rights, he is granted them only because the courts think he must be a good guy because most men flea or avoid paying child support. This is a statistic, I've done my research. I have no reason to make it up. In fact, I believe I read the information in an article I found on MDC several months ago regarding feminism, abusive, the legal system and the like. 

 

The difficulty I have with what you suggest is that my ex isn't civilized and because I believe his parents are paying for the decisions they want to be made...that also leaves me between a rock and a hard place. If I knew how to get out of it safely and in a civilized manner, I would most definitely be doing just that. I must ask you, have you been directly or indirectly affected by abuse? Have you been to a women's shelter? Do you know what they're like? Because in my experience, solace cannot be found in a shelter. And unless you have experienced the ramifications of abuse, then how can you speak so strongly about my situation? 

post #35 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmom Ruby View Post

I agree with the others, go to a women's shelter.  I was involved with one many years ago and there are more there in your situation than you could believe.  I will pray for you and the little one...God be with you

Thank you for your prayers grandmom ruby! Yes, abuse is all too common and seldom reported. 

post #36 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidMommy View Post

Is it just me, or has there been a spate of low-post-number people coming up with these completely BONKERS stories, trying to wrench everyone's heartstrings, and then taking absolutely NO advice when it's offered?

 

Yes, I know I also have a comparatively low number of posts...pot, kettle, black...but if I asked for help, I also wouldn't be shooting down every logical chunk of support offered to me only to say, "Yes, Captain Wackadoodle! I will manufacture documentation and try to manipulate the system in much the same way I feel my ex-partner will manipulate the system! Life on the run, girls gone wild! But I'm not wacko, HE IS!" And I'm not discounting that you're a victim. Two wrongs don't make a right, though, no matter how well-meant.

 

The rest of this is probably harsh, but...Your child's safety shouldn't devolve into a game of who can screw whom the most.

 

If you really don't want to go to a women's shelter for a lawyer, fine. Don't. Find a women's advocacy group. Go to a local law school and ask if they can recommend a pro bono attorney or court liason. Go to a physician who specializes in health care for abused women and ask if they can recommend any lawyers. The doctor I see actually carries a list of recommendations solely because her practice specializes in healing for traumatized/victimized women. If you're of a faith or spiritual persuasion, go to a large or major facility for that faith and ask for legal recommendations. Virtually any socio-cultural group (race, ethnicity, religion, political persuasion, etc) you can think of will offer suggestions to its members regarding legal affairs, with the caveat that they assume no responsibility for outcomes.

 

Just because one shelter sucked doesn't mean they all will, nor is it an excuse for you to hurl yourself so far outside the system that if you're found out, you're virtually guaranteed to lose your child. You're IN the system, like it or not, because that body attachment, warrant, court order - IT EXISTS. You cannot avoid it forever; eventually you're going to need health care or have a change in employment or school status, residence, or utilities that will NECESSITATE some sort of official process, and you'll more likely than not be found. Do you really want it to look like you were scheming and plotting and planning ways to actively avoid your legal dealings?

 

Put on your big-girl undies and get AHEAD of this before it rains down ruination. (I am grumpy because I work with kids who come from families JUST LIKE THIS, and without fail, the kids have SO MANY issues...if mom and/or dad just dealt with life as it came up, Every. Single. Person. Involved. would be so much better off...)  Anyone wanna pour me a drink?  duh.gif

 

I think you deeply misunderstand what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not looking to play a game with my ex. I know if he were involved that he would instigate games and threats and ultimately take my child. My ex has connections in other countries and once borders are crossed, the U.S. government is powerless. And yes, it's a shame that because I've had a few terrible experiences, I fear being involved with the legal system I expected would offer protection. I went to those places seeking help! It never even crossed my mind that I would become more entrenched in bad advice and people who didn't care. I believe there are good women and men out there who do good work in helping victims of abuse, but unfortunately, I have not had those experiences. I expected a very different outcome than the one I experienced and I feel like I've already lost a lot and I'm not willing to risk losing my child or my child losing me. 

 

I also don't appreciate that because you're grumpy, you're taking out frustration from your job on my situation, which you only have a glimpse of. I also do not appreciate that you're categorizing my "JUST LIKE THIS" situation. I do not just deal with life as it comes. And I find it incredibly difficult to believe that "every single person involved would be so much better off" if people put on their "big-girl" panties. I didn't want to run or be hunted or be abused or rapped or manipulated or be raising a child as a single woman...none of those things were what I wanted. What I do want is for my child to grow up in a healthy home surrounded by truth and love, which is what I strive for on a daily basis. 

post #37 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the chances of getting a better lawyer next time?

I echo this question. Another commenter suggested the idea that communicating what I want with my lawyer would bring success and a good lawyer-client relationship. I was abundantly clear with the lawyer provided to me by the organization I initially went to that helps battered women. My lawyer lied to me, misrepresented herself, and ultimately told my ex I had the child. I had been nothing short of clear and repetitive that I did not want him to know and she agreed she wouldn't.

post #38 of 51

I think the point was that you found a not-so-good lawyer the first time around, and that there ARE good lawyers out there who can and will help you. Just b/c the first shelter/attorney you found wasn't a good fit doesn't mean that finding help through a shelter and consulting an attorney is a bad idea. And just b/c you made a horrible choice of a mate the first time doesn't mean all men are going to treat you this way. You do know that, right?

post #39 of 51
Wow OP. I have no advice but you will be in my thoughts and prayers. I'm sorry you're getting spanked so hard on this forum for wanting to protect your child. Clearly people are lacking in their understanding of the dynamics of abuse. As a social worker, I agree that the system and the courts especially have a habit of not protecting children. I would be absolutely terrified in your shoes. Wishing you peace and strength.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

Wow OP. I have no advice but you will be in my thoughts and prayers. I'm sorry you're getting spanked so hard on this forum for wanting to protect your child. Clearly people are lacking in their understanding of the dynamics of abuse. As a social worker, I agree that the system and the courts especially have a habit of not protecting children. I would be absolutely terrified in your shoes. Wishing you peace and strength.

 

Yes, but the last time I remember a woman who feared for her children's safety took legal advice from a bunch of women on MDC who told her to go run and hide and go extralegal and write special letters about asserting her special rights --- she wound up losing her children permanently to the abuser, because she did something grossly illegal that multiple people with actual knowledge of actual law had said not to do.

 

Those of us who saw that go down -- and who are familiar with the roots and history of some of the "constitutional law tactics" recommended above, are loath to see it happen again. 

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