What would you do if you were being hunted... - Page 3

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by savithny 

Yes, but the last time I remember a woman who feared for her children's safety took legal advice from a bunch of women on MDC who told her to go run and hide and go extralegal and write special letters about asserting her special rights --- she wound up losing her children permanently to the abuser, because she did something grossly illegal that multiple people with actual knowledge of actual law had said not to do.

Those of us who saw that go down -- and who are familiar with the roots and history of some of the "constitutional law tactics" recommended above, are loath to see it happen again. 

Well I wasn't around to see that and regardless, I am NOT suggesting she do anything illegal or that any advice given by actuals lawyers is anything but good advice. However, being accused of making up the story and it being out of a lifetime movie is just mean. Also, I think there are nicer ways to suggest things to OP without minimizing her experiences. Some people seem to not believe that this guy is abusive or something, or that there's another side to the story and this guy deserves a relationship with his kid. Also telling someone to put on their big girl undies?!?! And then 100 people give that post a thumbs up? I find that really unsupportive. Catscradle had some legitimate good advice. Said nicely. Several other posts were just plain mean. All OP wants to do is protect her kid. Maybe everyone doesn't agree with how she's contemplating handling it, but, i don't know why people have to be so nasty about saying so.
Edited by APToddlerMama - 8/8/12 at 3:11pm

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Originally Posted by honeybaby1 



The difficulty I have with what you suggest is that my ex isn't civilized and because I believe his parents are paying for the decisions they want to be made...that also leaves me between a rock and a hard place. If I knew how to get out of it safely and in a civilized manner, I would most definitely be doing just that. I must ask you, have you been directly or indirectly affected by abuse? Have you been to a women's shelter? Do you know what they're like? Because in my experience, solace cannot be found in a shelter. And unless you have experienced the ramifications of abuse, then how can you speak so strongly about my situation? 

Actually yes. My mother was in an abusive relationship for 20 years before she died suddenly without explanations last year. That man abused me and my brothers. That man is trying to steal everything my mother left to us and destroy what is left of my family. I know abuse.


Because of my past, I got a degree in social work. I worked at a DV shelter for a year. I counseled battered women. I safety planned with them. I supported them in the legal system when they sought legal assistance. It was heaetbreaking so I decided to go to law school. I graduated, passed the bar, and represented CPS for the last 5 years.


I know my shit and I am not talking out my ass. I have seen women try to take things into their own hands, flee my state, and have the child forcibly removed from her and placed back in my state with the abuser. It's real and its tragic. It is also avoidable. The longer you evade the authorities the more likely it is that your chikd will be removed from your care. Then you will have to prive not only that your ex is dangerous but that you are not. And every illegal action you take weakens your case. So do what you want but the only option you have is to place your trust in the legal system an cooperate. It may not be the best option, but there is no alternative.


Good luck.

[honeybaby1]

Originally Posted by 1stTimeMama4-4-10 


Actually yes. My mother was in an abusive relationship for 20 years before she died suddenly without explanations last year. That man abused me and my brothers. That man is trying to steal everything my mother left to us and destroy what is left of my family. I know abuse.
Because of my past, I got a degree in social work. I worked at a DV shelter for a year. I counseled battered women. I safety planned with them. I supported them in the legal system when they sought legal assistance. It was heaetbreaking so I decided to go to law school. I graduated, passed the bar, and represented CPS for the last 5 years.
I know my shit and I am not talking out my ass. I have seen women try to take things into their own hands, flee my state, and have the child forcibly removed from her and placed back in my state with the abuser. It's real and its tragic. It is also avoidable. The longer you evade the authorities the more likely it is that your chikd will be removed from your care. Then you will have to prive not only that your ex is dangerous but that you are not. And every illegal action you take weakens your case. So do what you want but the only option you have is to place your trust in the legal system an cooperate. It may not be the best option, but there is no alternative.
Good luck.

I realize tone is sometimes difficult to convey via these messages, but I wasn't trying to question you in a negative manner, as if to say you have to right to share your opinions. I was asking because some of my friends, and possibly women on this board, have very strong opinions about how I should handle things when they haven't experienced abuse themselves. Of course, they are just that, opinions, but ultimately the choices are mine to make. 

And while you do know abuse, even still, would you agree that while every abusive situation is painful that they're still all unique in some manner? And sexual abuse is also quite a different kind of personal invasion and pain than emotional or physical abuse and I experienced all three. I am by no means downplaying what you experienced, nor would I ever think that because I know abuse that it means I know your  pain because it's always different. I simply think (or rather, thought) that women and men who have experienced abuse often times seem to take a different and I would even say more kind approach to someone who is dealing with a situation like mine. 

It took a lot for me to post what I did and really that wasn't even the half of it. I was hoping to find encouragement, constructive help, and safe alternatives. I understand you're educated and experienced and know the consequences a mother in my shoes can face if she is found, but if you feared losing your life or your child being sexually abused, physically abused, or killed... which risk would you take? Hiding forever or putting yourself and child in danger? I choose hiding. I was just hoping there might be some suggestions or ideas that would prevent that but also keep my ex far away and remove the body attachment. So either no one knows of that solution or it just doesn't exist. 

I respect the course you took to work in such a difficult field, really I do. You said it's a heartbreaking job and it most definitely is for various reasons, but some of those reasons have to do with holes and flaws in a system that doesn't really protect women and children all the time. And because of that, I'm doing what I think is right. I don't mean to imply to screw you attitude either. I feel I've been very respectful in my replies, which I'm sad to say cannot me said for all of those who have replied. 

[MichelleZB]

You know how, sometimes, when we see our kids about to run across the street, and a car is coming, and we yell? Some moms even lose control and spank, because they are just so scared. For a minute, they saw their child run over in their minds, and they lose control, because they are so scared.

I think that's what happened in this thread. OP, I don't think anyone was being disrespectful. I just think this is such a terrible situation, that it is making emotions run high everywhere. You are being extra sensitive for good reason. You feel in fear of your very life and your child's life. It's a horrible, tragic thing. On the other side of it, some commenters here have experience with these cases, and it's like they're watching you about to run across the street. They've seen women like you lose their child, permanently. They desperately don't want that to happen to you, and I think that fully explains some gruffness in the style of some posts here.

I've read the whole thread and I can't possibly imagine anyone is trying deliberately to be cruel to a poor, abused, single mom. I think that the urgency of the case has simply prompted some people to use strong language that a less dire situation would not have warranted.

Your situation is very scary, OP. It is true that if you find lawyers and take this to court, your abusive ex could end up with some parental time. He also could not, but it is a risk. Running carries its own set of risks, but its very biggest risk is that they could take your child away, permanently, and give your child to your ex. That would be the worst thing ever.

I understand how you feel trapped. You feel like there's nothing you can do to keep him totally away from you, to keep you totally safe. This breaks my heart. Please weigh your risks carefully.

[MotheringBliss]

There are those who live to torture.  A court order is quite amusing to them.  Have you checked the deep web yet HB?  

If you're unfamiliar, read many different security protocol sources first, be confident before seeking resources there.  

Here's the basics:  http://thebotnet.com/guides-and-tutorials/49828-how-to-access-the-hidden-wiki/

Watch your step and brace for more than you ever wanted to be aware of.

[mamarhu]

For confidentiality reasons, this post may be a bit vague, but I wanted to respond.

Many years ago, I was in a similar position to the OP. Add that my ex was a trained mercenary, and had serious PTSD, leftover from Viet Nam. He also had (has) friends who are government level computer hackers. Like the OP, there was no police or other official record of the abuse or threats on our lives. Ex was totally homicidal at the time we left, and I know he holds a grudge.

My 2 kids were preschoolers when I finally got the nerve to leave. I was able to get to a state where I had no history or connections. I avoided choosing any area where I had family, friends, or had ever mentioned being attracted to. I had called ahead, and and arranged a stay in a women's shelter. It was one of the most amazing experiences of my life! It was a supportive environment, and my story was believed. I got good, pro bono, legal advice. I changed my name, and those of my kids, in a sealed record. We also were able to change our Social Security numbers, unlinked to the old records, using a federal program to support domestic violence victims. I told my story to a judge who chose not to require any notification to the ex. For several years, I used a free, state-run, mail forwarding service for DV victims. I avoided all contact with anyone from my prior life. I occasionally contacted my closest family members (from other people's phones, when I was visiting other states) to let them know I was OK.

It has not been easy, starting over from scratch. I was on welfare and also racked up huge student loans while I started a new career. I did not try to bring my college degrees with me, or professional certification, because I could not be certain the link would not be traced. I couldn't believe that I had to get a GED! I now have a bachelors degree, in an entirely unrelated field, and a job that I love. My children were allowed to grow up without fear of their father. Over the years, I have lived in several states, intentionally leaving as little trail as possible. I now feel confident enough to re-establish contact with my family, and my Mom and sisters and I are very close. The ex has contacted some family members over the years, but got no info about me. He seems to have given up, as there has been no contact for nearly 10 years. I basically dropped all contact with old friends, and don't feel free to look them up on Facebook or whatever. I still take care not to mention identifying details online, and I have  But all in all, my life is pretty darn good.

My message to the OP: It can be done, and it is worth it. I don't have any specific advice on how to start a new life. I mainly wanted to say that I was able to work mostly within the system, using programs that helped me set up an entirely new identity. I am living without fear, and my kids have grown up pretty normal.
 

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Originally Posted by mamarhu 

My message to the OP: It can be done, and it is worth it. I don't have any specific advice on how to start a new life. I mainly wanted to say that I was able to work mostly within the system, using programs that helped me set up an entirely new identity. I am living without fear, and my kids have grown up pretty normal.

The most important part of this message is that it IS possible to protect yourself while still operating within the system.  I know you are certain that the system won't protect you, but I can say that isn't accurate. You have to access it before it can protect you though.  While you run, the system will work against you.  

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by 1stTimeMama4-4-10 

I know my shit and I am not talking out my ass. I have seen women try to take things into their own hands, flee my state, and have the child forcibly removed from her and placed back in my state with the abuser. It's real and its tragic. It is also avoidable. The longer you evade the authorities the more likely it is that your child will be removed from your care. Then you will have to prive not only that your ex is dangerous but that you are not. And every illegal action you take weakens your case. So do what you want but the only option you have is to place your trust in the legal system an cooperate. It may not be the best option, but there is no alternative.
Good luck.

This, OP, is what I'm worried about. I would hate to see your fear of the system mean that your child is going to grow up with this man.

[SquidMommy]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

This, OP, is what I'm worried about. I would hate to see your fear of the system mean that your child is going to grow up with this man.

Thank you. Whether or not anyone liked my tone, THIS is my point. Though admittedly sarcasm didn't translate well in print. I personally found this whole thing to be a bit of a perfect storm thread, and I wasn't the only one. A topic sure to create strong feelings on both sides, with an evil ex, a desperate mama, abuse, pursuit, threats, endless money, legal failings...if this is the life you're going through, I feel for you, because that's completely miserable and nobody should have to live like that.

I'm not attacking you - I don't know you - but I DO think that your plan of "going dark" is a really bad idea. Not you. Just the plan.

The guy you were with is completely looloo-bonkers-whacko, right? Right. We agree. The solution isn't going to be to work some sort of skirt-the-law magic...if his money ever catches up with you - and odds are good it will because people with the means to pursue things, do - any half decent lawyer is going to start calling YOU the problem for trying to work outside what the majority of people consider to be "the usual methods." Those usual methods are imperfect, but they're what we have as a solution for a majority of people. If and when you walk too far outside of those bounds and get called out on it, you will likely lose your case to your ex. Not because he's a better parenting choice, but because he can lean back, put his feet up, and say, "Well, at least I got a lawyer - she was too busy running around the country/continent trying to hide my offspring."

And ESPECIALLY because this involves your child, do you really want to take the risk? Ten crappy lawyers who waste your time but don't change custody arrangements are still WAY better than the alternative of one well-intentioned person who gives you bad advice you follow and wastes your child's life.

I also posted a long list, thought not exhaustive, of community resources to look to for possible legal referrals. Use a burner phone if you're worried about being located. You may be pointed to firms/individuals who have experience with whatever it is you're trying to achieve. And don't pay anyone until you're sure you like them. And make sure you can dump them if they misrepresent themselves.

And with that, I'm checking out of this thread. I tried, I clarified. If anyone thinks I'm still being catty, please feel free to address me privately. I don't want to give the wrong idea or perception.

[rightkindofme]

I want to comment because it sucks when your threads have thousands of views and only a few contentious comments. I'm struggling with what to say. I am extremely anti-authoritarian. I am the all grown up version of your daughter... only my mother never protected me. My mother put me in vulnerable, dangerous positions over and over and refuses to accept any responsibility for it.

I don't know what you should do. I'll be honest and say it scares the shit of me to think of you trying to hide outside the system now. Times aren't like they were. It's a lot harder to get lost than it has been at any point in history. And the probable outcome if you are found is so bad. Oh it's scary. There are government programs to help fleeing domestic violence survivors.

I'm scared for you. I'm not judging or thinking anything negative. The system didn't do much to help me until after the fact. The state of California took one look at my father's confession and decided they were ok with paying for my therapy for the rest of my life. I don't have a lot of faith in the system. (I don't let them pay for my therapy anymore either. I'm a rich person. I can afford it.)

I have lived with a lot of fear in my life. Serious terror and harm. I don't know what you are feeling but I have a good imagination. I've been thinking about you for a while. I'm sorry your life is this hard. I'm so terribly sorry.

[kblackstone444]

OP... I was in a similar situation as yours a year and a half ago, only he never threatened to kill me.  Almost everything else was like your situation.  I don't have any good advice, except, apparently it CAN be done, but even so, whatever you choose to do is a risk.  If you stay out of the system, which is getting harder and harder to do these days and will only get harder as technology increases, you will keep your child safe... until you get caught.  Then, you will lose your child almost definitely.  If you fight him in court (your best bet is a Women's Shelter with a free lawyer or Legal Aid), he will likely get SOME parenting time- my son's father gets Supervised Visitation, but because of the distance, it's not often.  Please get a lawyer.  I'm sure everyone here means well, but the law is a very tricky thing with some crazy loopholes and there's no room for mistakes.  I have some questions...

How old is your child?  (Daughter, right?)  The longer she's been with you, the less likely the judge would take her from you, especially with her having NO relationship with her father.

Has Paternity been proven yet?  If you haven't signed anything stating that you know he's the father, he can't legally get visitation without being legally declared the father, which would require a DNA test.  It wouldn't stop visitation, but it would stall it.

Someone said this- "You say you relocated to another state.  If you have been in that state for at least 6 months and can prove residence for yourself and your child during that time, AND your ex filed for custody/visitation AFTER you had been in that state for 6 months, you can have the entire action either dismissed outright or at least transferred to your state.  If your ex filed for custody BEFORE the six months was up, then his state is the state that retains jurisdiction and all of the orders in that state are VALID."  Which state- yours or his- should it legally be held in court in?

I was in a similar situation.  I got more of the "I'll take him and leave the country with him and you'll never see him again" and none of that "I'll kill you" bit, but I feel for you- I know what you're going from, I know the terror of the "what if".  You'll be in my prayers tonight.