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Prophylactic antibiotics for my 11 mo who came in CLOSE contact with pertussis?

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 

My husband and I are on the fence.  I am normally against antibiotics, as I feel they are over used.  However, my son, unvaccinated, played in close proximity with a boy who we later found out was diagnosed with pertussis... Our doc recommends prophylactic antibiotics but my chiropractor says why bother?  They do not work anyway.  I guess we are just very scared and would rather take the chance with antibiotics than take the chance that he develops pertussis.  He is still exclusively breastfed and I will also be giving him probiotics.  Are antibiotics really that bad in this case??  Thx

post #2 of 34

I'd be conflicted to, but would probably opt for the antibiotics as they are supposed to help limit transmission after exposure, and shorten the recommended quarantine duration.

 

I'd rather the antibiotics than the vaccine.

post #3 of 34

If I were in your position, I would not do the antibiotics. 

post #4 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

If I were in your position, I would not do the antibiotics. 

What are your reasons?  I am just trying to get as much info as I can..... thanks :)

post #5 of 34

How about prophylactic sodium ascorbate? This would be health promoting overall, and would work against possible pertussis. Antibiotics are not health promoting. They would weaken the body overall.

post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixela1126 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

If I were in your position, I would not do the antibiotics. 

What are your reasons?  I am just trying to get as much info as I can..... thanks :)

I don't think it is a good enough reason to completely trash an 11 months old gut. I also, personally, wouldn't do prophylactic vitamin C, I may do it if there are symptoms. 

 

Some information for you:

 

http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/_blog/Hilary%27s_Desk/post/Pertussis_MOH_changes_the_diagnosis_criteria_-_31_May,_2012/

 

http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Whooping_cough_immunity/

 

http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Whooping_cough_treatment/

post #7 of 34
Since this is about health and not vaxing, this belongs in H&H... I'll move it for you!! smile.gif
post #8 of 34

Was the other child just diagnosed with pertussis - or is this the later stages of the disease for the child?   Did they do proper tests to ensure it was pertussis?

 

Did your child play within about 5 feet of the child?

 

If the disease was in the later stage (less contagious) or your child was not within 5 feet of your child, I might wait to see if pertussis develops and then treat.

 

The above is according to what I read on google .  Please double check for yourself.

 

I am hesitant to give a child an antibiotic if they do not need it.

 

I would talk to a doctor and a naturopath (in my area naturopaths are well educated and provincially certified)


Edited by purslaine - 7/18/12 at 4:57am
post #9 of 34

Haha, um, no way would I trash my kids body with abx for this reason.  Like a PP said, it will overall weaken his body.  Not health promoting.  I would go for food based probiotics such a home made ferments, kefir, kombucha (I buy this, GT Daves brand), etc.  And I love Fermented Cod Liver Oil, Green Pastures Brand.  It has vitamin D to help his immune system too!  Btw, thumb.gif for not vaxxing!

post #10 of 34

I've done a lot of research on pertussis because a friend of mine's daughter died from it. Babies under 1 year can't fight the bacteria very well, and they often end up suffocating because the bacteria release a toxin that swells their airways. Some babies only mildly suffocate (they'll turn blue for a few minutes from time to time) and will be OK; others will get brain damage; and others die. I would NOT take the chance of letting your son get pertussis, because it is extremely contagious, so he has likely been exposed to it. If you wait to treat with antibiotics, he will have more of a chance to infect you and the rest of your family (and believe me, you do NOT want pertussis; unless you recently got a Tdap vaccine you are vulnerable, because childhood vaccinations for pertussis don't last into adulthood. Parents who get it end up not sleeping for weeks). The other problem is that if you wait to use the antibiotics, they won't work as well because the toxin has already started doing its damage -- so your son will still be coughing for weeks even after the antibiotics are done. The reason your doc gave antibiotics prophylactically is because much of the country is experiencing a pertussis epidemic, so it's likely he will get sick -- and the best thing you can do for his health, your health and the health of other babies he might come into contact with is to give him the antibiotics now. 

 

Good luck!

 

Warmly,

Melinda

post #11 of 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wennerc View Post

The reason your doc gave antibiotics prophylactically is because much of the country is

This sentence should be finished with "overusing antibiotics to an extreme degree causing antibiotic resistant bacteria, among other problems." lol.gif

And, considering the pertussis bacteria has mutated so the vaccine is no longer effective (if it ever was), this person obviously does not know what she's talking about.

post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by wennerc View Post

I've done a lot of research on pertussis because a friend of mine's daughter died from it. Babies under 1 year can't fight the bacteria very well, and they often end up suffocating because the bacteria release a toxin that swells their airways. 

I'm so sorry about your friend's daughter. How many months old was she, and in what state and year did she die?

 

In the 2010 California pertussis outbreak, all 10 babies who died were under 3 months old. 9 of those 10 were under 8 weeks old.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/20/california.whooping.cough/index.html

post #13 of 34

1love4ever, I totally agree that antibiotic overuse is a huge problem. But I think given her baby's almost certain exposure, they are warranted in this case. And I don't know where you got the information that the vaccine is completely ineffective. It is not 100%, but it still does provide some (80%) protection, at least for 3-5 years.

Ma2two, she was 12 weeks old and from Michigan. She died in May. She had already had at least one DTaP, though, so she did have some protection. Sixella1126's baby didn't have any vaccines, so I don't know whether he'll be able to fight it as well.

post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by wennerc View Post

1love4ever, I totally agree that antibiotic overuse is a huge problem. But I think given her baby's almost certain exposure, they are warranted in this case. And I don't know where you got the information that the vaccine is completely ineffective. It is not 100%, but it still does provide some (80%) protection, at least for 3-5 years.

Ma2two, she was 12 weeks old and from Michigan. She died in May. She had already had at least one DTaP, though, so she did have some protection. Sixella1126's baby didn't have any vaccines, so I don't know whether he'll be able to fight it as well.

The pertussis part of the vaccine is 59-89% effective.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/pertussis-whooping-cough

 

I am very sorry about your friends daughter.  

 

If I were the Op, I would try to figure out:

1.  How likely it was my son would get pertussis(based on how they played together (many 11 months do not really play with other kids) how contagious the other child was (what stage of pertussis was it).  I get some of this is a guess.

 

2.  What does research say about the use ahead of time of antibiotics versus antibiotics at first sign of the disease?  Is there a significant difference in the severity of pertussis?  As number one is somewhat of an unknown, this factor has more weight for me.


Edited by purslaine - 7/19/12 at 6:28pm
post #15 of 34

Here's some information from the NIH on early treatment:

 

Treatment

If started early enough, antibiotics such as erythromycin can make the symptoms go away more quickly. Unfortunately, most patients are diagnosed too late, when antibiotics aren't very effective. However, the medicines can help reduce the patient's ability to spread the disease to others.

See http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001561.htm for more info.

The coughing symptoms of pertussis are mainly the result of the bacteria's release of pertussis toxin, which builds up over time during the infection. If treated early, and the bacteria are killed off early, there is less toxin released and milder symptoms. This is also why antibiotic treatment later doesn't actually improve symptoms; it kills off the bugs so the person is no longer contagious, but the person still coughs for weeks because the toxins have already damaged the lung's cilia. 

The other issue is that the earlier he gets treated, the fewer people he can infect. I imagine he will survive pertussis given his age, but there is always the risk, if he goes untreated, that he could infect newborns or pregnant women.

As for vaccine effectiveness: I think the 59% figure comes from 2-component acellular vaccines, whereas most used in the US are 3-component vaccines, which are more effective. See this systematic review:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21249646

post #16 of 34

You all have very thoughtful and educated responses to this issue, which of course is filled with controversy. Antibiotics don't work so well in pertussis, vaccines don't work so well either. So the conventional medical approach definitely has shortcomings and limitations. For my patients I rely on holistic treatment and prevention of pertussis. In this situation I would give Pertussinum to the entire family as a preventive. It has been shown in preliminary studies to reduce the incidence and duration of pertussis when given prophylactically in epidemic situations. Giving an antibacterial such as liquid silver or elderberry would also be a good idea as well as vitamin A and 1,000 IU vitamin D.

If symptoms of pertussis should occur (antibiotics or not), then homeopathic and Chinese herbal treatment will manage them. See the article by Jake Fratkin on Pertussis   http://drjakefratkin.com/articles/the-treatment-of-pertussis-whooping-cough-with-chinese-herbal-medicine

post #17 of 34

Sixela, in your case, I would do the abx.  I just do not have that much faith in sodium ascorbate, or in chiropractors - pertussis is way outside a chiro's area of expertise.  I've heard chiros argue otherwise.  I don't agree with them.

 

If your kid had a playdate with a child who has a confirmed diagnosis (or even a strong suspicion) of pertussis, I would not care whether the kids spent the entire time on opposite sides of the room.  Given the rate at which babies and young toddlers put things in their mouths, contact with the same environment is enough for me to think there's been exposure.

post #18 of 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by wennerc View Post

1love4ever, I totally agree that antibiotic overuse is a huge problem. But I think given her baby's almost certain exposure, they are warranted in this case. And I don't know where you got the information that the vaccine is completely ineffective. It is not 100%, but it still does provide some (80%) protection, at least for 3-5 years.

Ma2two, she was 12 weeks old and from Michigan. She died in May. She had already had at least one DTaP, though, so she did have some protection. Sixella1126's baby didn't have any vaccines, so I don't know whether he'll be able to fight it as well.

duh.gif  Do some research.... http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/04/17/pertussis-vaccine-for-whooping-cough-effects.aspx   If 2 babies are sick with pertussis, one vaccinated, one not vaccinated, why would the vaccinated have a better chance at "fighting" it?  I would say that the vaccine was obviously ineffective, so they both have equal chances of fighting it. (not taking into account the fact that vaccines actually weaken the immune system and are not health promoting)

Very sorry about your friends baby btw, that is terrible.

Sorry, not trying to turn this into a vaccine fight, but it does bother me when people "preach" vaccines, when they have done 0 research themselves about them, or only looked at one side of the issue (pro-vax in this case) rolleyes.gif

post #19 of 34

1love4ever, it's unfair for you to accuse me of having done "0 research on vaccines" myself. I have done a lot of research on vaccines. I have a degree in cell and molecular biology and have interviewed 50+ researchers who study vaccines, on both sides of the issue. I read hundreds of peer-reviewed studies. Believe me, I have looked at both sides of the issue and for a while I was very skeptical of immunization. But now I have come to the conclusion that while vaccines are NOT 100% effective, they aren't all or nothing, either. Genes and epigenetics play a big role in whether a person responds to a vaccine or not. 

 

sixella1126, I hope that whatever your decide, your family stays healthy. 

post #20 of 34

Oh and I was also on the CDC teleconference today about pertussis (they just released new numbers on pertussis). For up-to-date info on the state of the epidemic, see

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6128a1.htm?s_cid=mm6128a1_w

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