How to fake a vaccination record? - Page 3

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

I have removed several posts made to this thread and issued an infraction to one member for their inappropriate posting. While it is fine to debate opinion and thoughts it is another thing to misconstrue a statement and try to make it offensive to those reading. This disrupts the discussion and makes it more antagonistic.

Taximom, I have left your post up. Please edit to clarify your intent in your post so that nothing offensive is perceived and then let's move on with the general discussion.

Can you let me know which post? I have made several posts on this thread.

[bremen]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


Can you let me know which post? I have made several posts on this thread.

umm how about the one where you compare vaccination to genocide? 

[ladyofkris]

Taximom5 - I dont care what they say, I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you.ve said.  Thats my opinion.  And thanks also for the post regarding the titers from someone else. I am educated on the exemptions, however, if they want to say that I will not be able to take clinicals, then they can do that. I have had titers done about five years ago.  They said that I was NOT immune to the Rubella.  the only way that I can get a Rubella is to get the whole MMR ( which in my opinion) is what makes it worse since they cram it all into you at once.  to all whom say "just get the shots" well, Ive seen autism start in three children after receiving their shots, and Ive seen Guillon Barre in two people after vaccines.  One friend paralyzed in the hospital for exactly one year only able to blink.  Sorry, but when you show me a child whos unvaccinated whom has autism or one of that type of disorders, then I will believe that it has nothing to do with vaccine.  I dont believe there are any.

[chickabiddy]

Autism predates vaccines, significantly.  The word originated in 1908 and symptoms have been described throughout history.

[Rrrrrachel]

there are many children who are unvaccinated and have autism.  Even age of autism and generation rescue have produced data showing this.

[Alenushka]

I do not think anyone who is not vaccinated against Rubella should allowed to do clinicals. In fact, anywhere in health-care period .

Anekdatata is just that... anekdata.  I knew someone who was a non smoker, a vegan and died from lung cancer. I guess tofu causes lung cancer.

GB is known side effect of the flu vaccines but everyone forgets that it is also a know consequence of the flu itself. In fact, statistically speaking, you are more likely to get GB from flu than the vaccine.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

there are many children who are unvaccinated and have autism.  Even age of autism and generation rescue have produced data showing this.

I am curious how many of these unvaccinated children have developed regressive autism? That is they were fine one day, and then for no apparent reason started to regress, losing their speech and eye contact and having behavioral issues, suddenly contracting severe bowel issues, and other infections. All out of the blue?

[chickabiddy]

That wasn't the challenge.  The challenge was:

Originally Posted by ladyofkris 

Sorry, but when you show me a child whos unvaccinated whom has autism or one of that type of disorders, then I will believe that it has nothing to do with vaccine.  I dont believe there are any.

And there have been unvaccinated autistic people throughout history; therefore, this poster can now believe that "it [autism] has nothing to do with vaccine[s]".

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by chickabiddy 

That wasn't the challenge.  The challenge was:

  This is not just a debate for debates sakes.  Hopefully we are after truths or important ideas.  I think knowing if regressive patterns of autism predate vaccines is an important question.  I would also be interested in knowing if the amount of regressive autism cases is higher now than it used to be (which would not necessarily make me go "vaccines cause regressive autism")  but if the percentage of autistic people who have regressive autism is on the rise, something or multiple somethings, are up.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 11/11/12 at 7:33pm

[Rrrrrachel]

Mirzam and Kathy have both brought up good points. I assume since they're interested in it they will dig up some more info for us. I look forward to hearig about it.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


Can you let me know which post? I have made several posts on this thread.

Post #50

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Mirzam and Kathy have both brought up good points. I assume since they're interested in it they will dig up some more info for us. I look forward to hearig about it.

When/if I dig up some information, I will share

That being said, my post on regresive autism is really talking about ideas for consideration, and I used the nice qualifier of "if" twice.

I don't think we have to cite information regarding ideas.  Things people are presenting as facts are a different story - if I say  (totally bogus example)  "10 percent of children who get the MMR vaccine experience a febrile seizure within 24 hours" that would need to be backed up.

[Rrrrrachel]

Oh sorry, I thought you were expressing curiosity and were going to look into it some more.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Oh sorry, I thought you were expressing curiosity and were going to look into it some more.

I have posted this article before (and it went largely unnoticed):

Why Don't Children Regress Before they Turn One?

Add this paper to the mix:

Vaccinations and autisim: cause or coincidence?

[Rrrrrachel]

I have a problem with his seeming conclusion that just because children don't regress until the second year of life (taking his word for it) vaccines must be involved. It seems like there could be a lot of possible explanations for that.

[Rrrrrachel]

This is getting really off topic, though, maybe we should start another thread.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I have a problem with his seeming conclusion that just because children don't regress until the second year of life (taking his word for it) vaccines must be involved. It seems like there could be a lot of possible explanations for that.

This is off topic and this is also the I'm Not Vaccinating board, and not the general "debate" board. But what else happens so coincidentally during that time to cause such a dramatic change in a child? Did you bother read the other paper?

Quote:

Not Necessarily Coincidence: The findings by Ozonoff et al (1) are remarkably parallel to the CDC's timing of infant vaccinations (2). Thus, the new findings of autism-onset timings are consistent with anecdotal reports from parents who witnessed and later describe their child's regression toward autism soon after one or several vaccination incidents.  Indeed, several factors described in peer-reviewed research articles suggest that coincidence is unlikely in regard to many and perhaps most children who regress soon after a vaccination.

Perhaps some do regress earlier and the parent's concerns get brushed off by doctors:

Parents are taught that individual children develop at a rate different for each child, although group trends and average stages have been described. Pediatricians often and correctly counsel young parents that some delay is normal from some individual children. This recommendation (in some cases) may mask parents' observations of delay and thereby may minimize parental reports of a child's atypical developmental progress. What Ozonoff et al reported regarding parental observations seems not a fault of the parents. 

[Rrrrrachel]

I really don't want to discuss this any further on this thread.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I really don't want to discuss this any further on this thread.

That's entirely your prerogative. You can go search my original thread if you so desire, its on the main forum.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by ladyofkris 

  Sorry, but when you show me a child whos unvaccinated whom has autism or one of that type of disorders, then I will believe that it has nothing to do with vaccine.  I dont believe there are any.

Even those who are most convinced that vaccines can cause autism don't believe that vaccines are the ONLY cause of autism.  There do exist cases of unvaccinated children developing autism--but the plausible explanation for this is that they have been exposed to the same causes of autism via a different route.  For example, 7 of the the 11 autistic children first studied by Kanner in the 1940's had exposure to mercury, and their autism was likely caused by mercury poisoning.

http://www.examiner.com/article/interview-with-dan-olmsted-mark-blaxill-age-of-autism-mercury-medicine-and-a-manmade-epidemic

"Just to set the stage a bit, Leo Kanner was a child psychiatrist at Johns Hopkins University and in 1943 he wrote a paper called Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact. It was a case series describing 11 children and all of them had what he described as a uniquely and markedly different disorder, which became known as autism. We decided to go back and look at those cases very carefully and when we did, we found enough clues that we were able to identify seven of those 11 children.

As we looked more closely at their family background and where they lived, we saw what we thought was a pretty remarkable pattern of background exposure to a new commercial mercury compound called ethylmercury, which was used first in the 1930s in fungicides, agriculture and in vaccines as a preservative. So what we believe we see is a strong pattern, not proof, but a strong pattern that the age of autism really began when this kind of mercury reached commercial use and affected children."--Dan Olmstead