How Can I Approach a Mom About Giving Us Custody? LONG!! - Page 2

[stik]

Originally Posted by Alphaghetti 

Her mother doesn't give a crap enough to call me herself, or even ask to speak with me when she talked to her daughter on the phone. Why on earth would I call her to come and get her, when nobody involved wants her to go home, INCLUDING her mother?

I think you're well-intentioned and trying to do a good thing.  But if you're going to do that good thing, you DO have to initiate contact with the child's mother.  And probably her father.  And you need to consider the other two children in this situation.  This good thing you're trying to do is a really big project.  If you're going to take it on, you need to go above and beyond the efforts put forth by the other adults involved in the situation.  You need to call the kid's mother, fill her in on what her dd has been doing, ask how mom is doing, and make a plan for how long you are keeping her dd.  You probably need to contact her dad.  You need to arrange regular contact for communication about the child, and you need to follow through on that communication even when the kid's mom and dad seem willing to let it drop.  If this child stays with you in a long-term, formalized way, you will need to facilitate visits with both parents and with her siblings. 

A social worker looking at the situation will certainly agree that mom's failure to contact you means that she doesn't give a crap.  They may see your failure to contact mom as evidence that you don't give a crap either.  That's not what a caring adult would usually do when trying to help a child.  They may also be concerned that you didn't contact CAS when Mom left the country and left the kids without food.  That situation would have compelled CAS to act, but you didn't report it while it was happening.  That's a pretty big missed opportunity to get services for the children. 

It sounds like you're a caring and generous person.  It sounds like you feel exploited by this mother.  If you're going to bring this child into your family, you will not just be helping her.  You will be creating a relationship with her entire family, and she will be bringing her own contributions in to your family.  If you understand what that will mean for your family (and it will not be like having her as a house guest for a month - being part of a household is not like being a guest in it) and you are ready to build that relationship and accept those contributions, then you can probably make this work.

[MeepyCat]

Alphaghetti, I can totally understan why you feel slammed. I think you're genuinely trying to do a good thing. I also think you're out of your depth a little. You need to get closer to shore.

That's great that you'd be willing to drive 45 minutes for a meeting with her mom, but how could you make that arrangement without calling in advance? In the time that this child has been in your home, why have you not asked her to put you on the phone for a few minutes when she gets through to her parents?

Workers for social service agencies cannot afford to assume that everyone who comes forward with a generous sounding motive is genuine. They have to investigate. Their job is far less confusing if the people with the generous motives (like you) make good faith efforts to round up the peole who are supposed to be doing the work. On the one hand, child's mom has quite the history of failure (which, I am sorry to say, you've enabled). On the other, your failure to get her on the phone is *your* failure - it doesn't even sound like it would be hard, you just haven't done it.

But it's been days. Have you checked out the old neighborhood to see how the other girl's are? Have you spoken to the mom yet?

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by Alphaghetti 

MeepyCat: I fail to see how my not contacting the mother myself would make it appear to authorities that I was incapable of caring for the child, or how it would make them question my interests. What on earth would be my motive for having a child in my home that isn't mine, other than having her best interest at heart? I don't get this at all.

You do realize that there are people in this world who would want access to a child without oversight from their parents or social services for nefarious reasons, don't you? You might now that your intentions are good, but CPS has no way of knowing that.

[Alphaghetti]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

Alphaghetti, I can totally understan why you feel slammed. I think you're genuinely trying to do a good thing. I also think you're out of your depth a little. You need to get closer to shore.
That's great that you'd be willing to drive 45 minutes for a meeting with her mom, but how could you make that arrangement without calling in advance? In the time that this child has been in your home, why have you not asked her to put you on the phone for a few minutes when she gets through to her parents?
 

I guess you missed my update. I have talked to her mother. She's going home this coming week, and I will be calling CAS.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by stik 

If someone else's child is in my house for a month, I feel pretty strongly that I have an obligation to make contact on a regular basis. Obviously, in an ideal world the child's parents would feel obligated to contact me, but it's not ok to agree that a child will be returned home on a specific day and then wait three weeks to call because the other mom was supposed to call you.

Exactly.

[lauren]

So, everyone take a breath!

Would it work where you live to get guardianship of her (not custody)? Here in the states someone can get temporary guardianship of a child if the parent agrees. This gives you the legal rights to get medical care, sign consents and enroll in school.

Given the recent conversation you had with her, it would appear that she might be very open to this. Here in the states this is usually handled in Probate Court. You would have to find out which court handles it. She would have to agree by signing something and there might be a small fee. If at such time as she gets her act together, she could go back to mom.

Around here DCF almost prefers these arrangements because they don't have to pay for foster care if an alternate guardian gets guardianship instead.
 

[SpottedFoxx]

I'm sorry to her she is going home.  I hope CAS is better than CPS in the US (not all but a good majority are the pits).  Sending thoughts of peace to you and your family.  This must be so hard for you all.

[christophersmom]

Poor kid. I wonder if that mother would let her go if her entitlements would be cut. It was a convenient arrangement for mom when you were taking care of her but mom still had $$.

I hope things work out well, but I am guessing your assumption is probably correct in that it will sever ties with her family. Sorry, I do think you had good intent.
 

[kathrineg]

The best bet for you to retain legal rights would be to talk to a lawyer who is experienced in family law in your county.

[sesa70]

Originally Posted by Alphaghetti 

I guess you missed my update. I have talked to her mother. She's going home this coming week, and I will be calling CAS.

Im sorry to hear this :(

I can see from your posts that you were (and are!) really trying to do the right thing and help this girl. I also understand that you were nervous about enlisting the help of CAS... for good reason. I can imagine its hard to know what the 'right' thing to do is in this situation.

How are things now? What was the conversation like on friday with mom? I am hopeful that things worked out for the best and she agreed to let you keep friend for the school year.

I imagine at as far as the mom is concerned, she is actually glad you have her daughter. She probably loves her... though she sounds really messed up right now... and is relieved that her child is safe and well cared for.

Hugs to you for helping this girl and doing your best for her.

[RStelle]

I just wanted to say I totally understand why you handled things the way you did. I had friends when I was in school who had a similar situation a few times, they were better off staying at a friends house so they just stayed there for a few months informally. I actually don't think it is that unusual. I do think you should have called CPS right away but I understand why you didn't want to. I know CPS wouldn't love that you didn't call, but  I wouldn't loose hope about getting temporary custody, a foster care situation or whatever. You can make it clear to them that you would be happy to care for her, it could still happen in the future. 

You have already made a huge positive impact on her life, even if she never got to see you again you have made a big difference. she's very lucky to have your family to care about her!   

[Alphaghetti]

As a follow up: I am taking her home this evening. Her mother is meeting us at the train station. Her mother was not and is not upset with me in any way. She does not seem to find it unusual that her daughter was here a month without my calling her. Great. Friend has expressed interest in coming back later in August for another visit. My wheels are turning. My original question was, how can I approach a mom about giving us custody?  I think maybe "custody" was an incorrect term, as I am completely inexperienced with fostering or anything else.  So, how can I approach her about the possibility of her daughter starting school here with us? What do I say? What points can I bring up that might soften my words, and have me appear non judgemental?

[Linda on the move]

Could you talk to an attorney and find out what legally would need to be put in place, and then talk to the mom? A power of attorney? Something more? Just something so you could provide medical care for her and legally enroll her in school.nothing permanent

Then talk to the mom. You could say something like:

It seems to work better for everyone for x to say with us right now. I'd be happy for her to stay longer, but with school getting ready to start, I just want to make sure things are set up for. She could go to school here, but we would need to (whatever you learn from the attorney).

And then just see what happens. I would avoid saying anything negative about the mother, or anything permanent.

Good luck. I think you are doing a good thing. The city I live in has a large population of homeless teens. Some are from here, but some come here from other places.

[APToddlerMama]

OP--as a social worker who has worked in child welfare, I don't think you've done anything particularly wrong. I would have handled things a bit differently, but I think your heart is totally in the right place, you had good reasons behind a lot of your choices, and a lot of the responses you've gotten are so totally over the top I can't believe it. No normal social worker in her right mind is going to think you kidnapped this kid as a sex slave. Come on.

That said, I really would contact CAS on behalf of this child's siblings. Remain anonymous. Call from someone else's phone. You do not need to mention anything about having the one girl for a month with no response from mom because a) that could interfere with your relationship with this family because they'll know it was you who called and b) from a child welfare standpoint, there is really nothing terribly wrong with this. Mom knew her kid was in a safe situation with a willing person taking care of her, and you were not leaving mom messages requesting she get this kid. It was essentially mutually agreed upon even if it's neglectful in the eyes of a normal parent. I don't know how things run exactly in Canada, but I'd be surprised if its considered neglectful by CAS to allow another person to care for your child when the other person is ok with that.

In terms of what to do next, I'd contact a lawyer first. I think it would be fine for you to approach the mom but you want to make sure you're considering all legal aspects. I think what you're doing is great. There are lots of people who work out informal arrangements like these and frequently when a child does come into the CPS system in the states, social workers will first look to these informal supports as a foster home placement for a child. Do know though that all kids who have been through what this kiddo has been through tend to go through a honeymoon phase prior to all hell breaking loose. Chances are, if this girl comes back, at some point you'll find yourself dealing with some emotional and behavioral issues. If you want to be proactive, I'd at least start reading up on this stuff so you're prepared when it happens. Good luck. Thank you for caring so much about this child. What a bright light you must be in her life.

[EarthRootsStarSoul]

I do hope you still contact the authorities about the other two children.  You are doing all you can to look after your daughter's friend, but the other two girls also have the right to have a responsible adult taking care of them. 

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

OP--as a social worker who has worked in child welfare, I don't think you've done anything particularly wrong. I would have handled things a bit differently, but I think your heart is totally in the right place, you had good reasons behind a lot of your choices, and a lot of the responses you've gotten are so totally over the top I can't believe it. No normal social worker in her right mind is going to think you kidnapped this kid as a sex slave. Come on.

I totally agree.

OP, i wish i wouldve commented earlier...but i dont think you did anything wrong and while personally i would have called the mom earlier, i get the feeling you wanted to see just how long it would take her to contact YOU. To see if she is as neglectful as you presume (which, apparently she is.)

If i were you, i'd not word it as asking the mom for "custody" which might be kind of a hot button for her, like you're wanting to "steal" her kid. Asking for custody is like telling her she's a bad mom and cant raise her child, that you're doing a better job (which we know you ARE but she wont want to hear that ;) ) I'd phrase it something like "Jane, little Susie has had such a great time here over the summer and my daughter is soooo happy she is here! The new school my kids are going to is a really great one, and i was wondering if there is ANY way you'd consider letting Susie stay here with us and going to school up here?? Of course you could see her whenever you want but its just been great having her around." and see what she says. If she says "wow yeah, you sure you dont mind? i'd hate to impose on you but she really likes it up there!" then you can go further "yeah...it would be great. only problem is of course in enrolling her in school. Theyre gonna want official paperwork, i cant just sign her up. I think if you signed some kind of temporary guardianship papers, that would let me do stuff like enroll her in school, get medical treatment if its necessary etc..." see what she thinks. Maybe let her sit with the idea for a few days and call her back and say "so i was talking with my legal guy, he says in order to do this the legal way we'd have to do xyz...i wouldnt want to get in trouble by trying to enroll her without proper documentation, and i wouldnt want to cause trouble for you by someone thinking i stole your kid LOL!" i would just avoid any kind of "you're neglecting your kid" talk....

to me the most important thing right now is getting this girl in your home legally. You can cross the bridge of what is going on with the other kids after you get those papers signed. Because honestly....if you call now, she isnt going to let you see any of the kids, and social services are likely to check in on her, she'll cover well, the kids will cover, there will be food in the fridge and the house will be tidy and nothing further will happen. Unless there is obvious drug use on the part of the parent or something happens and the police happen to be called while there is active neglect going on (like they come in when she's out of the country and the kids have no food) nothing will happen. Thats just my opinion but thats how i feel.

[SpottedFoxx]

Maybe you can approach it like "I know how important school is to our girls and I have to tell you, this school district is amazing.  What do you think about sending her to my daughter's school?  She can stay with us and go to the same school with daughter.  All I'd need from you is for you to give me authority to make decisions on her behalf like school stuff or heaven forbid medical - other than that - we wouldn't need anything other than you to call her and visit when you are able."   How does that sound?

[sesa70]

I like QJ and SF's suggestions. If it were me, I would take a step back from there, and say something like QJ mentioned about how great it would be for the kids to go to school together in the fall, and see how she reacts. If she seems like its a good idea, you can leave it at something non threatening like "oh I'll find out what paperwork and stuff I need to register the girls and I'll let you know when friend comes back in Aug". Then, when mom comes back next month to drop friend off, you'll have more info to give mom, sort of splitting the blow so to speak, and when you talk again you make it sounds like its the school that needs this legal paperwork and not so much that its coming from you. She might take it better that way and not feel as threatened.

Good luck, and please keep us posted on how things are going!

[faithsstuff]

update?

[CarrieMF]

Where is her father in this situation?  Does he live at their house or somewhere else?  It sounds like he is involved.  he has a say in where his daughter goes.   If the mom does let her stay with you then you need to get permission from him too.