Looks like baby won't be choosing his own birthday. :( - Page 2 « Back to Group Discussions

[ilovetchotchkes]

Quote:

I struggle with the notion of a trial of labor for VBAC before a very probably c-sec.  I was with a mama all through her trial of labor for a VBAC with a bigger baby last summer.  She went for nearly 2 days before deciding to check in and get the c-sec.  Her arteries in her womb were so large and inflammed that the surgeon accidentally stitched into one of them.  It split as she moved into recovery and she bled out.  They were able to save her life and she was able to get half her blood volume transfused, put in ICU on a paralytic, and then spent a little more time in ICU off the paralytic before spending nearly an additional week more in the hospital recovering.  It was a long road...very painful.  In retrospect speaking with the doctor and evaluating things from the midwifery perspective, it put a lot of stress on her body and inflammed things a lot, causing the complication.  I stayed in the hospital that week, nursing baby as stand-in mom so that dad could go back/forth also caring for their toddler.

this happened to a friend of mine with her first birth. She seriously almost died. 

Ninetales- seriously do not beat yourself up over this. Please. You did everything "right" and you're not going to be insane and try and do it anyways with a 14lber. Hell, if someone told me FOR SURE that my baby was over 14 lbs? i would probably pick a c-section too even though I"m severely phobic. 

[Ninetales]

Yeah, it's been hard trying to reconcile my feelings about natural hands-off childbirth with the fact that I'm clearly different from most women.  I've spent so many years reading and researching how much safer and better it is without really understanding that that is the ideal for a normal woman.  Obviously something about me is not normal, and that doesn't have to mean bad.

I've been posting in a lot of places looking for support and sympathy, and most are helpful.  I stupidly went looking for help in the Livejournal community and forgot that anyone who plans any kind of medical intervention is persona non grata there, no matter the situation. 

[Thandiwe]

Originally Posted by Ninetales 

Yeah, it's been hard trying to reconcile my feelings about natural hands-off childbirth with the fact that I'm clearly different from most women. 

I have a good friend IRL who cannot birth naturally, period.  She goes for a WEEK in labor with excruciating back pain (completely unexplained) and just cannot progress.  She has tried with the first couple of her 4 births to have a home birth and each time ended up in the hospital with an epidural, able to get relief from the pain enough to deliver.  By #3, she accepted that her body just *can't* do it on it's own - and they've tried EVERYTHING for a week straight until she's nearly delusional from exhaustion and pain.  By the last one, she ended up needing an emergency c-section for a partial abruption.  She has said the exact same thing as you, having a hard time accepting that her body is different from other women and trying to not feel broken somehow.  They are very big emotions to deal with.

[Tizzy]

You may have enough time to plan a minimal intervention C/S birth plan though, perhaps that would help?

Then you have a little more control over the entire experience for you and your baby and can be more sure of skin to skin contact immediately, assistance with breastfeeding, what type of anesthetic and pain relief you get so you can be more alert and so on.

Sometimes you can even request dimmed lights when baby comes out and what kind of music is playing, although that would definitely depend on your surgeon :)  I know there was music playing when my first baby was born (c/s), and I found it annoying at the time but I don't remember what it was exactly.

[FeralFox]

Originally Posted by Tizzy 

You may have enough time to plan a minimal intervention C/S birth plan though, perhaps that would help?

Then you have a little more control over the entire experience for you and your baby and can be more sure of skin to skin contact immediately, assistance with breastfeeding, what type of anesthetic and pain relief you get so you can be more alert and so on.

Sometimes you can even request dimmed lights when baby comes out and what kind of music is playing, although that would definitely depend on your surgeon :)  I know there was music playing when my first baby was born (c/s), and I found it annoying at the time but I don't remember what it was exactly.

This.  It sucks that this is happening, and I'm so very sorry.  But you have the opportunity to turn it around at least a little bit, to help plan a birth for your child that might not be your top choice, but that is gentle and calm and positive.  You can talk to your doctor about your options, about doing skin to skin and nursing in recovery, about dropping the barrier or having a mirror to watch the birth (if that's what you want), and because you're scheduling you know you'll have your doctor and the plan you've agreed on will be respected.  There's nothing wrong with you and your body hasn't failed.  You just make very healthy babies, so you need to go with plan B.

*Hugs* to you, mama.  Motherhood is a long series of readjustments and changes in perception and priorities, after all.  You just have a jumpstart on the rest of us with that.

[rebecca10]

So tough.  With my first, she was transverse until 39 1/2 weeks so I spent a lot of time trying to prepare myself mentally for a c-section.  One thing that helped is to remember that for all the pro-natural birth stuff--which I am a big believer in--natural births aren't always the right solution and when that was people's only solution maternal and infant mortality rates were much, much higher.  I tried to remember how lucky I was to be birthing at a time when c-section was an option in situations in which reliance on vaginal birth could have been tragic. What a blessing for your baby that you have a way--even if it's not the one you would have choosen--to help make sure that the outcome is a healthy baby and a healthy mom.  Sometimes we really do need medical intervention.   And, as hard as it is to actually fully internalize, that's not "bad" or something we should feel like a failure about.  But I know how hard it is to deal with the dissapointment, so sending lots of hugs and hopes that you are able to come to terms with it. 

[Ninetales]

I'm really glad to have this DDC.  I don't know how I'd be coping with this stuff mentally without you guys.  I'm going to look more into the gentle cesarean birth plan stuff I've heard about.  Mostly for me it will be regarding treatment of the baby after birth, which luckily I know my doctor is on the same page about.  I'd love to find out more about keeping the placenta attached to the baby to get at least some of the extra blood.  I wish we could get real cord cutting delay but I know that's a lot to ask of an OR team.

I don't really care about the lighting and music and whatnot, so that's easy enough, and I definitely don't want to see anything!  I'm super squeamish.  They asked me with Elsa if I wanted the screen lowered and I was like "NOOOOOOOO!"  I really think that this time will be easier because I more or less know what to expect and will have my doula with me to stay with me and have J go with the baby if they need to take him away for "observation."  My doctor and I already talked about that in depth because it was a big stressor for me last time.

[ilovetchotchkes]

And yeah, LJ can get like insanely judgey!! oh holy hell. I posted in the Natural birthing community there after my son was born about processing how badly his birth went and I got torn a new one. "you buy the hospital ticket, you get the hospital ride" (uh no, i would have asked to transfer for pain meds and gotten a c-section had I tried to home birth him because the hospitals in my area punish home birthers). I got blamed, my MIDWIVES got blamed (uh NO, not their effing fault my son was malpositioned!!! and it was such a subtle one that we didnt' CATCH it until he actually CAME OUT with his head on his shoulder, had he been sunny side up they would have figured it out) 

[DesertSunsets]

I know I'm just echoing the sentiment of everyone else, but I wanted to jump in a bit because DW and I have been working on our birth plans.  

I very much believe in birth without unnecessary medical interventions.  Unfortunately many of these interventions have become routine (one theory I've heard is that it is a lot harder to sue for a doctor doing too much than too little).  But the thing to keep we are trying to remember is that there is a big difference between necessary and unnecessary.  We are all different and fall into different places on the bell curve.  Someone has to have large babies when they have an otherwise "normal" low-risk pregnancy and someone else has to have the little bitties.  

I'm so sorry you are going through this and I hope you have enough time to come to terms with whatever your birth plan becomes.  Know that we are all here rooting for you and waiting to see your beautiful big boy!

[sallyrae17]

All I can really say is that I'm thinking about you and hope that you are able to peacefully come to terms with the decision you have to make. I know what it's like to feel like your body has failed and I wouldn't wish that feeling upon anyone. Plainly put - it sucks. So...I hope you are able to have some sort of control over your birth and know that you aren't a failure. Things just didn't work out the way you anticipated or wanted. 

[Tennessee]

I am in the same boat.  My husband and I were planning on a natural birth for our first child.  I had an ultrasound last week and the baby is measuring 10 lbs. and his shoulders are measuring large so the doctors are pressuring us into a C-section because of shoulder dysplasia.  I have gestational diabetes and they do not want me to go past 39 weeks.  I only have until Tuesday to start dilating or we are having a C-section on August 1st.  I cried all day yesterday and I feel so defeated.  We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.  I wish there was a magic ball that could give us an accurate measurement of his size to determine if a vaginal birth is worth the risks.

[monkeyscience]

You've gotten a lot of good input so far, I mostly just want to give you a hug! And a big to people who aren't being supportive. It's uncalled for in any situation, but especially in this one. It's not like, OMG, ultrasound says the baby is 9 lbs! Such a monstrous baby could never be born vaginally! 14 lbs is BIG, even if you subtract 2 or 3 lbs, and you have already had a very big baby and a c-section. VBAC is a wonderful thing, but there ARE times it isn't best for mother and baby, and anyone who can't see that is an idiot. And you have every right to feel sad and frustrated and hurt. More s, and best of luck with planning a birth that will be as gentle for both of you as possible.

[Ninetales]

Haha, monkeyscience, I know!  People hear me say "the baby is too big" and they're all "oh no no!  You'd never grow one too big!  That's not possible!"  And want to give me tips on pushing positions.  And I'm like, no, you don't get it.

[monkeyscience]

Yeah, that is one of the things that gets to me sometimes - people so deep in their granola they can't see the real world. :P People forget that a LOT of mothers and babies died in childbirth back when everything was "all natural" - and while tons of it was due to infection, and some of it was due to incompetence, some of it really was because bad things happen in nature! Yes, it's more frequent for things to go okay, otherwise the species goes extinct, but it's also perfectly normal/natural for things to go wrong sometimes. End rant. :) (For the record, if you decide that you want to go for a VBAC anyway, I'm fine with that. I don't think this is a 'no way should anyone ever' situation, but I think you are being very thoughtful about this and have many valid medical and emotional reasons to choose a repeat c-section.)

ETA: Okay, I should have been nicer. Some people who say things like you were talking about aren't too deep in their granola, they just jump to the conclusion that you must be the average, uninformed mainstream mom. Which is a lesser crime, in my book. And one I've been guilty of, so I try really hard not to instantly jump to conclusions about other people's choices.

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

The theory that I have heard is that until pretty recently (like within the last 50 years), people did not have the opportunity to intermarry with people of very different physiological makeups. You ended up with women who married and procreated with men of very similar biological backgrounds and so the saying that the woman wouldn't grow a baby she couldn't birth was true. Then, with air travel, globalization, etc., women and men of very different backgrounds suddenly had a chance to make babies together, and sometimes, the woman's body is not physically capable of birthing the child she carried for 9 months. I don't have any research in support but it was an interesting theory that made some sense to me. It is pretty clear that there are some times that a baby really and truly cannot be born safely except via c-section. Now, I think that particular diagnosis is overused in this country, but there are times it is 100% legitimate. I am fairly certain this is one of those times.

[Ninetales]

That's really interesting!  I have wondered if it's something in the environment, or rather several things.  I don't eat much differently from most of mainstream America, but maybe just the right combination of hormones and chemicals and whatnot have accumulated in me to cause this to happen.  Who knows? 

Talking with my sister was pretty helpful today.  We thought about a lot of other incredibly rare things that happen to people and that are much more devastating, and that supersize babies aren't the worst thing I could be dealing with.  My babies worry the doctors for sure, but they go home with me.  And how many women would give absolutely anything to carry a baby in their own bodies but can't?  Like someone else said, someone has to be the end of the bell curve.

I do sometimes waffle on letting myself go into spontaneous labor, but the thought that he could be sixteen pounds by then really scares me, and I'm absolutely terrified of having someone other than my doctor do the surgery.  I've looked into the theories behind Gentle Cesarean and I think it's something she'd be interested in at least talking about with me.  I know that being kind of a last minute thing it would be unrealistic to expect her to be comfortable or capable of performing it but it's worth talking about.

[LilyTiger]

Interesting theory, 1st Time Mama.  Nothing in the literature (evolutionary theory/human biology) I've read supports it though, since reproduction across racial lines and so forth has been happening for thousands of years. And if anything, the largest uptick would have been around 300 or so years ago when the slave trade really got people of different racial lines reproducing together (often not consensually).  I haven't seen anything indicating that mixed babies are harder to birth than babies within a race, though there might be evidence out there I'm not familiar with (and, as you say, in some cases it just seems like it would make sense).

On another note, there's a really powerful documentary from PBS called "A Walk to Beautiful" that totally disproves the whole "your body only produces babies you can birth" line, though the reason for this is primarily the under-valuation of women in Ethiopia and the prevalence of child marriage and malnutrition.  Either way, the documentary is beautifully done and extremely powerful and demonstrates the importance of modern medicine (including C-sections) for women in many parts of the world.  These women all labored "naturally" and their bodies were completely destroyed by fistulas and they become social outcasts until they could make the trek to a Western style hospital for surgery.  I show it in my Women in Politics class as a way to get the discussion going about how medical outcomes are linked to more than simply medical care.  It's available for free streaming on the PBS website if anyone is interested.

(Sorry about the random rant.  I'm in black tea/writing mode and so am both hyper and pedantic)

[1stTimeMama4-4-10]

Originally Posted by LilyTiger 

Interesting theory, 1st Time Mama.  Nothing in the literature (evolutionary theory/human biology) I've read supports it though, since reproduction across racial lines and so forth has been happening for thousands of years. And if anything, the largest uptick would have been around 300 or so years ago when the slave trade really got people of different racial lines reproducing together (often not consensually).  I haven't seen anything indicating that mixed babies are harder to birth than babies within a race, though there might be evidence out there I'm not familiar with (and, as you say, in some cases it just seems like it would make sense).

On another note, there's a really powerful documentary from PBS called "A Walk to Beautiful" that totally disproves the whole "your body only produces babies you can birth" line, though the reason for this is primarily the under-valuation of women in Ethiopia and the prevalence of child marriage and malnutrition.  Either way, the documentary is beautifully done and extremely powerful and demonstrates the importance of modern medicine (including C-sections) for women in many parts of the world.  These women all labored "naturally" and their bodies were completely destroyed by fistulas and they become social outcasts until they could make the trek to a Western style hospital for surgery.  I show it in my Women in Politics class as a way to get the discussion going about how medical outcomes are linked to more than simply medical care.  It's available for free streaming on the PBS website if anyone is interested.

(Sorry about the random rant.  I'm in black tea/writing mode and so am both hyper and pedantic)

Yeah, like I said, I don't have any research that supports it, the first time I actually heard it was discussing how my friend was totally unable to birth a 6.5lb baby.  She pushed for 10 hours and finally needed a c-section.  I was asking our midwife (my friend and I birthed 2 days apart and both transferred to the same hospital; bc she had a c-section she was still in the hospital when I was recovering) how it was possible that a normal size woman just could NOT vaginally birth a small baby.  Anyway, that was the midwife's theory and she said that anecdotally she had seen lots of women who had very different ethinic backgrounds than the baby's father have difficulty because of the shape of their pelvis. She is a super crunchy midwife, but she acknowledged that there are times that a woman's pelvis simply does not get big enough to birth the baby.  She said that one of the working theories had to do with how evolution is changing us.  Interesting food for thought whether or not it has any academic support. 

[andaluza]

Ninetales, I'm glad you are feeling better after talking to your sister!

On the topic of discussion between 1stTime and Lily, my mom's pelvis did not allow her to birth me or my brother vaginally, but she attributes this to her mother having taken DES when she was pregnant with her. Apparently the effects on the reproductive system do not pass to the next generation (i.e. me), though, which several different obs have assured me. This is the only known effect that it had on my mom, but some of the research on it is scary. My mom didn't know this would happen and was in labor with me for over 24 hours before the doctors realized and gave her a c-section. That said, since DES is a synthetic estrogen, and things like BPA are linked to endocrine disruption, it's scary to think about what some of the supposedly harmless chemicals (according to the FDA, which only banned BPA in bottles and sippy cups because of the industry itself requesting it) we end up consuming or coming into contact with in everyday life are doing to our bodies. 

[iixivboots]

Originally Posted by Ninetales My babies worry the doctors for sure, but they go home with me.  And how many women would give absolutely anything to carry a baby in their own bodies but can't?  Like someone else said, someone has to be the end of the bell curve.

This is so wise and puts a lot of birthing decisions/happenings in perspective, I think. I didn't really deal with infertility for that long compared to a lot of people, but I can tell you there are a lot of women who are grateful that women who are able to carry their own babies are aware what a gift this is. xoxo