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Conjoined or "just" monoamniotic?

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
I'm so overwhelmed, I hardly know where to begin. I've had a couple of losses, so I'm being followed pretty closely and they did an ultrasound last week and thought they saw 2 heartbeats, but figured it was just a wierd u/s echo. Well, we did another u/s today and it is definitely identical twins. The doc said they are "definitely" monoamniotic. (I thought they couldn't tell that for sure until they checked later on and they could keep looking for a membrane for a long time.)

Anyways, besides that news they are also concerned that the babies are conjoined at the abdomen or pelvis area. Doc said it was certainly too early to tell, but some of the ultrasound pictures suggest that. I've stared and stared at the picture and I just don't see it.

I guess I really don't even know what my question is. Conjoined twins are SO rare, it just doesn't seem possible. Has anyone run into anything like this before? I really don't even know where to begin.
post #2 of 41

Xerxella- How many weeks are you? We didn't see the barrier between the boys until 9 weeks.

post #3 of 41
Thread Starter 
Hey deborah! wave.gif We're 8 weeks + 1 today. I can't seem to post the u/s pic, but I'll keep trying. The doc was 100% sure they're monoamniotic, but from everything I read I don't understand how she can be that certain. Of course, if they really are conjoined, they have to be. I just don't believe it. I would think they could be one a little behind the other, right?
post #4 of 41

Hoping you get answers soon.  Will she send you for a better ultrasound?  Try to post a picture of the scan.

post #5 of 41
x- i can post that pic for you if you want me to.
post #6 of 41
Thread Starter 
Adaline's mommy - Can you grab it off facebook or should I e-mail it to you? (Also, maybe you could take it down after a few weeks. I don't mind people giving their opinions, but it's wierd to think of it hanging out there on the internet for years,especially if they are conjoined.)
post #7 of 41
No problem. I've got it on my computer because I was trying to tweak it in different colors to see if I could see any other details. (hope that was ok with you smile.gif )

Everyone, ta-da, for a limited time only, Xerxella's first glimpse at her twins!!! Note: please do not quote this post, as the OP wants the pic to be removed at some point and if it's quoted I wont be able to take it off smile.gif

post #8 of 41

well first of all i wanted to just send you a big twin hug and a deep calming breath, I'm guessing both of those will come in handy.

 

secondly, what is your doctor suggesting you do next?

 

are they sending you for a 3D ultrasound or at least a way clearer on than this, because i can tell you that the anatomy scan i got was amazing in its clarity compared to tall the others i had got to that point, so there are hi res ones and low res ones.

 

or are they asking you to wait a bit, since they may be concerns about a long solid exposure at this very early stage, and although i am totally sure you really need to have your questions addressed, unless you considering drastic measures, what can you really do this week that you can't wait for a few more weeks to do?

 

i wonder if the classic things folks do to get babies to move in the womb work when they are this young?, i wonder if they would see better if they little buggers would kick around a bit and change position, at what age gestation can they change position i wonder? 

 

 

ill be thinking about you

post #9 of 41
Thread Starter 
Thanks Adaline's mama, I don't know why I couldn't post a pic. Feel free to look at it all you want. I know all I've been doing is staring at it. (Is that a delta on the bottom towards the left? Like the one Rose was talking about when she mentioned about seeing them on your u/s?) I can kinda convince myself it is. And that the sacs are kinda like a yin and a yang sign. Can you see that faint line through the middle left or am I fooling myself?

Thanks adorkable. Right now their only recommendation is to do another u/s at 10 weeks. By their own report and my research, conjoined twins are commonly misdiagnosed at any point before 10 weeks. So, it's a long 2 week wait. I think I'll also plan another appointment with whoever's the best in the Chicago area on these sorts of things for a little after the 10 week point.

These babies are wanted, so we'll do whatever we can to save them.

They tried to get them to move a little, but said at this age they're just too little to move and give them a better view. They said by 10 weeks they can encourage them to move more and have a better chance of seeing more detail. Of course, there's nothing that can be done between 8 and 10 weeks anyways, so there's nothing to do but sit and wait.
post #10 of 41
X- When i alter the picture to have more red hues, I can see what my eyes believe to be a small line through the middle left.

See it more clearly now?

post #11 of 41
Thread Starter 
sigh. I don't know what I see. Someone else pointed out that what I thought to be a membrane is probably an umbilical cord.

I still don't see how they could possibly be conjoined. Aren't conjoined twins essentially mirror images of each other? These 2 don't seem to be mirror images in the least. I just don't know anymore and I'm tired.
post #12 of 41
One of the women in my 06 birth month group (we are still really close) has momo twin girls (age 6 now). I was asking her about her experience (since my dr did not see any membrane at my us) and she said that not only were her girls momo, but it took them six weeks.to determine that they were not conjoined. She also said (and i have been seeing similar info online) that they usually find a.membrane at 12 weeks. Actually i have seen lots.of stories.of it being found even later than that. There is a website called monoamniotic.com that has message boards and stories that i have been checking out. I don't know if there were any stories like yours, but i was not looking for them either. I have been looking at as many twin us pics as i can find online and i still have no idea what i am really looking at in terms of placentas, body parts, membranes, etc, so i am no help at looking at yours...i can see how it looks.like.one is kind of behind the other. I wish you the very very best of luck and i hope that they can very quickly.discover that all.is perfectly fine with your twins.
post #13 of 41

Xerxella- My RE told me that mo-mo twins are typically right on top of each other and that doesn't seem to be the case based on what I see for your twins. Also, we did not see my membrane until 9 weeks and a day or so. My OB told me it's usually at 9 or 10 weeks that you can tell mo-mo vs. mo-di.

post #14 of 41
Know that we are sitting here with you and will be with you every step of the way. In a perfect world pregnancy and birth are an upheaval of emotions, twins ad so much more to that and yours may ad more still. Your not along, as silly as it may sound you have a big room full of friends here! You have been around mothering long enough hopefully that doesn't sound the slightest bit silly.
grouphug.gif
post #15 of 41

X - holy wow. Oh my goodness! I hope you are able to stay calm until you can get more answers. 

post #16 of 41

I am rooting for two sacs!  I hope you find out one way or the other soon!

post #17 of 41

I agree I don't see it. I see one baby slightly behind the other. Also your doc's machine is not that great. I am surprised he would jsump to such a conclusion without sending you to a more detailed ultrasound with a specialist. Good luck mama!

post #18 of 41

Yeah, I think its really inconclusive.  Also, agree that it is too early to see the best pics.  If this was your OB scanning you, I think they should have a trained sonographer scan you.  And, from my knowledge around 11-14 weeks is the best time to see chorionicity, placenta(s), cord implantation, etc. 

FWIW, a doc in my office today found mono- mono twins and took her immediately back to our sonographer for a more detailed scan with a better trained technician and better machine!

post #19 of 41

My first thought was, such beautiful twins. I wish I could be more helpful - I can only imagine what you are going through. I think your idea to get in with a specialist ASAP is right on. Even if it's true that you may not be able to know for 2 weeks+, it is absolutely worth it to try to get a more detailed scan in the meantime. I'm glad you've gotten so many good suggestions already from people more knowledgeable than me. Please keep us posted and we'll keep the good thoughts coming.

post #20 of 41
Less than 10 weeks seems way too early to determine monoamniotic - I know it took a while to see a separating membrane on my babies (I had my first US at 10 weeks). Try not to worry too much until you can get another US - hopefully as soon as possible! I know that's far easier said than done - at 10 weeks, DH and I were told that one of our babies had an abdonimal abnormality. We spent the next 4 weeks researcing the 2 conditions we were told it might be, and worrying like mad (but trying not to). At 14 weeks, the US showed everything was normal - and I bawled my head off with relief at the news! I hope you have the same experience. Please keep us posted.
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