Looking for insights on IQ testing (tests, caveats, etc.)

[heatherdeg]

I was seriously sure I posted this but I guess I didn't.

I'm trying to determine if 8yo is truly gifted or just seriously academically advanced.  Honestly, I'm only interested as a means of trying to pinpoint the source of some emotional issues and if he's truly gifted, I'll turn to SENG but if he's academically advanced, I could approach it from a more mainstream perspective... kwim?  I don't really see him as gifted.  I see him as "really far ahead of his age peers who are likely to all even out by the time they're 18".  He has mild Asperger's Syndrome and is EXTREMELY sensitive in strange ways (heaven help us if we call the Lego Bionicle or hero or whatever "it" or "one of his things" vs. "him" or "your Bionicle"... holy moly)

I also have a 3yo (almost 4yo) adoptive daughter who was a Safe Haven baby (no birth family information--essentially left at the hospital although we have some scant biomom info).  We're interested in testing her, too, for two reasons:  first, we have never taken care of a neurotypical child.  Ever.  And that's with one biological child (the 8yo) and easily 8 other children ranging in ages of birth to 12yo (foster children--various lengths of time).  But second, we have absolutely no idea what her biological parents were like.  So with never having seen a neurotypical child and the lack of biological family history (and some behaviors that are more in line with a younger child that MIGHT be intelligence but might also be related to stress that she appears to be HIGHLY sensitive to)... I'm kind of wondering where she's at, too.

So... does anyone have the low-down on what tests will give me the truest sense of what I'm dealing with for each child?  Is one test (or version/variant of a test) more reliable than another?  And for each one's age, what test should I be looking at? 

TIA

[serenbat]

hi

as for your 3 year old- I highly doubt that ANY reputable doctor would even consider doing any testing- it simply does not exist in the manner you seem to desire and as for gifted at that age it would not be accurate by any means! don't waste your money if someone says they would do it!

I'm sorry you have never experienced a neurotypical child- they are wonderful! Have you spoken to your ped yet? Even being given up (regardless of the reason or what the parents "might" be like) you might have one of those simply regular children many of us get from birth. Just to let you know (outside of here) in the real world there are many gifted children with no issues at all-that does happen.

As with your older DS you do not mention the type of schooling you are doing? There are many threads here that directly address reasons for testing, you may want to look at them. Are you having issues at school that make you want to do testing? Again, my first thought would be to talk to you ped and seek their assessment and advise on a psychologist if they recommend testing. Given the hugh cost (since most insurances will not pay) most parents only do testing if they can afford it and if they know how they might need it (a special program that would require it, school related, etc).

Read thought several old posts is a good starting point.

Good luck.

[Geofizz]

Honestly, with what you describe, I'd go with the parenting advice for your 8 year old that seems to fit.  If info from SENG rings true, go with it.  If things seem hollow or you're thinking "not my kid," set it aside.

It doesn't seem like you have a lot of need for indepth testing.  It's expensive, time consuming, and stressful.

The only thing I see here that you might want to chase down further is the diagnosis of "mild asperger's."  That should have included an IQ test if done right.  If you've gotten that off a check-list of behaviors, realize that those are best used as screening tools, not diagnostic tools.  A high achieving kid with Asperger's traits could just as easily be a misdiagnosis and instead simply be gifted plus a few other less evident issues.

For example, several people with Asperger's experience (as parents) have suggested to me that my DD's issues are possibly asperger's.  The screening tool (Conner's) that the teacher filled out came back with t>90 for both autism and asperger's.  The complete neuropsych exam instead revealed a lot of the associated issues that kids with asperger's struggle with (face blindness, sensory disorder, and anxiety) coupled with a high GAI and average processing speed.  Taken together, we see a lot of similar behaviors, but without the central asperger's disorder.

Edited by Geofizz - 8/2/12 at 8:34am

[dkorovikov]

[deleted]

Edited by dkorovikov - 11/12/12 at 2:57pm

[Geofizz]

The Conner's that DD's teacher and I each filled out had Autism and Asperger's t-scores as part of the result. DD scored high according to the teacher and low according to her parents because of the vastly inappropriate learning environment and poor fit to the teacher.  I questioned the teacher closely on what kinds of questions she ranked DD on as high that she felt might have tripped those possibilities, and they were all related to things that we later discovered were a result of either anxiety comingled with being bullied or with unaddressed learning disabilities or with the fact that she was unable to get her teacher to answer a single question she asked in science.  (The teacher later admitted that DD simply knew more than she did.  Sigh)

At the same time, the school psychologist was also pushing an ADHD diagnosis on us.  (No, he doesn't have the ability to diagnose, but he was going to try). 

The parent form of the Conner's had DD as t>70 for a math disability.  DD hit the ceiling on the WIAT-II math sections, and is 2 years accelerated.  She doesn't have a math disability.

Most of the issues for the psychologist's ADHD and our math disability  were related to the fact that DD spent a year, an hour a day, working problem after problem out of a math textbook with no instruction, no peers, no variation, and minimal feedback.  The whole time, she had to tune out a rowdy math class, in which students were often yelling numbers.

Math was fixed pretty quickly:  DD got a quiet room to take her tests.  DH and I took over her math instruction and did wild things like teach her how to show her work.  She got photocopies of the textbook so she could highlight instructions and reduce the distance over which she had to transfer information.

Much of DD's anxiety remains a work in progress.  She goes to CBT now.  The therapist has pretty much put everything on hold because she's a different person in the summer, without any (significant) anxiety to address.  Things also started to improve after the bulling was squashed.  Turns out it's pretty hard to know how to interact with your environment when no other child will acknowledge your existence.

I didn't really like the  book Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children, but this is really a case where the wrong environment could have led to a misdiagnosis for DD.  Both her neurospych and CBT laughed out loud when the saw the Conner's.  They both used nearly identical words:  The problem isn't DD.  The problem was her environment.

I'm hopeful for a good year this year.  DD's placed with a teacher with a very different style and who has a significantly greater background in science.  DD will receive her math instruction from a teacher in a classroom of gifted math peers.  The vice principal has realized the extent of the bullying in the school, and is enacting change. 

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Geofizz 

Honestly, with what you describe, I'd go with the parenting advice for your 8 year old that seems to fit.  If info from SENG rings true, go with it.  If things seem hollow or you're thinking "not my kid," set it aside.

I don't know how I feel about this.  If his emotional issues are really NOT a factor of his perception of things based on his intelligence, I have to wonder how effective that would be.  Have to think on that.  I honestly am looking to reduce the amount of study-trial-error time involved (which is really only one of the multiple concerns I have with this advice).

It doesn't seem like you have a lot of need for indepth testing.  It's expensive, time consuming, and stressful.

Actually, he wants to participate in a program next year that would require test results to get in.  It's an astronaut thing locally.  Of course, he may not yet be at the math level he would need to be at to get in.  I haven't shared that tidbit with him yet because he's engaged in his math at a level that he may just naturally get there of his own current pace and I'd prefer not to add fuel to the fire.  :/  But then you go on to say this...

The only thing I see here that you might want to chase down further is the diagnosis of "mild asperger's."  That should have included an IQ test if done right.  If you've gotten that off a check-list of behaviors, realize that those are best used as screening tools, not diagnostic tools.  A high achieving kid with Asperger's traits could just as easily be a misdiagnosis and instead simply be gifted plus a few other less evident issues.

For example, several people with Asperger's experience (as parents) have suggested to me that my DD's issues are possibly asperger's.  The screening tool (Conner's) that the teacher filled out came back with t>90 for both autism and asperger's.  The complete neuropsych exam instead revealed a lot of the associated issues that kids with asperger's struggle with (face blindness, sensory disorder, and anxiety) coupled with a high GAI and average processing speed.  Taken together, we see a lot of similar behaviors, but without the central asperger's disorder.

What you're talking about to get the answers you got for your child still involved testing... so I'm not exactly seeing where I can just avoid it.  Finding a person qualified to ferret out what is actual ADHD vs. a gifted kid who is significantly under challenged vs. a kid with Asperger's of any degree or some combination of these has been a formidable challenge.  I'm truly to the point of driving 4 hours one-way to see a doctor that appears to have nailed it for someone I know and trust with a child with similar issues.  

Originally Posted by dkorovikov 

Hi, psychologist-in-training chiming in. I'll second what serenbat said-- intelligence testing for a 3 year old likely won't be very fruitful. There are assessments for children that age when there are concerns about developmental delays and behavior and such, but those are focused on "we have a problem, let's pinpoint it better" and won't shed as much light on a child who isn't really experiencing many problems from what you describe.

Hmmm... this doesn't match what was done for the 8yo when he was 3yo (which doesn't make what they did RIGHT, just saying that this is where I got the idea... kwim?)  He transitioned from Early Intervention to the school district and they did a butt-load of testing... which drove me nuts.  The 3yo has some strange emotional issues.  I'm just trying to nail down if they are maybe related to intelligence.  She seems normal to me but like I said, my idea of normal may be skewed.  She may be over or under (I only consider "over" because I don't see delays, but maybe her emotional issues indicate "under")  I kind of think it may just be related to stress, but who knows.

Regarding your 8-year-old, you seem to be interested in a standard psychoeducational battery. Those generally include an IQ test, an achievement test, and hopefully some emotional functioning assessment. See if you can convince your school that he needs one-- that way they'll pay for it, and that's about the most they do for testing anyway. There are a few big names in child IQ tests, but they're all pretty sound. In most parts of the country, the WISC-IV is the dominantly used child intelligence test. Just make sure they don't give a WASI, which is a very abbreviated version of the WISC (same company) and won't be as informative. There's more variety in terms of academic tests, but again the most commonly used ones are all pretty good, particularly if you're just confirming that the child is ahead of grade-expectations.

This is what I was looking for--thanks.  I believe the last set of tests he did (again, for SpEd services although they used those tests to try to get out of giving him SpEd services on the grounds that he was gifted as if you're not capable of being gifted AND LD...   ummm... hello?  They call it 2E, folks! ) was an abbreviated Woodcock-Johnson (I may be remembering that wrong) and there was no IQ attached to it but they found him to be far above average (at 99.9%+ for most of it).  Without the IQ, I question this equating to giftedness.

Thanks, all. 

[Linda on the move]

There is a difference between having an iq test and having an evaluation. An iq test is part of an evaluation, but can be done on it's on.

I agree with others that an iq test for a 3 year old is inaccurate. Although when an eval for such a young child needs to be done, they try to guess at iq, they really are just making a guess based on the whole eval.

If you feel things are off enough with your 3 year old to warrant an eval, then you can request one through the school or privately, starting with your doctor. I'm not really understanding your concerns for her. She sounds typically developing, but somewhat emotionally intense.

As far as your 8 year old, I'm curious when his last eval was done and wonder if you could learn more about him with a new one. I have a dd who has Aspergers and is also gifted. We learned the most about her through a private eval when she was 13. The tester was awesome, and my dd was really able to cooperate.

I disagree with the advice to avoid testing. With a possible e2 child, their strengths and weakness can mask each other to a degree that the child receives neither the additional support they need nor the additional challenge they need. They can easily be failed by school and parents.

I also think that average scores(such as the 99% score you listed) for a 2e child are pointless. 2e kids are often very different in different areas, and what those differences are and how big they are are part of the key to figuring out the child.

Evals are a bit like photos. You don't really expect a photo of a child taken at 3 to look like them when they are 8 (though there are similarities).

[christinelin]

Just chiming in with another anecdote about early IQ tests often being inaccurate. My DS (also gifted + Aspergers) had a completely average IQ on his initial eval at 5. That threw me much more than the ASD because it just seemed wrong, so off from my experience of him and from what others observed. In two subsequent IQ tests (both for participation in research studies -- I don't put him through them for kicks!) at ages 7 and 8 1/2, he was solidly in the gifted range. I, personally, wouldn't trust any answer given at 3.
 

[serenbat]

Originally Posted by dkorovikov 

Hi, psychologist-in-training chiming in. I'll second what serenbat said-- intelligence testing for a 3 year old likely won't be very fruitful. There are assessments for children that age when there are concerns about developmental delays and behavior and such, but those are focused on "we have a problem, let's pinpoint it better" and won't shed as much light on a child who isn't really experiencing many problems from what you describe.

Hmmm... this doesn't match what was done for the 8yo when he was 3yo (which doesn't make what they did RIGHT, just saying that this is where I got the idea... kwim?)  He transitioned from Early Intervention to the school district and they did a butt-load of testing... which drove me nuts.  The 3yo has some strange emotional issues.  I'm just trying to nail down if they are maybe related to intelligence.  She seems normal to me but like I said, my idea of normal may be skewed.  She may be over or under (I only consider "over" because I don't see delays, but maybe her emotional issues indicate "under")  I kind of think it may just be related to stress, but who knows.

 

Neurotypical children are not routinely given evaluation or IQ testing at 3, 4, etc- I can't grasp if you have no "issues" why you are wanting this and disbelieve what I and others have said? If you have "issues" that warrant intervention that would be detected via an evaluation that is totally different.

Given the emotional issue does your ped recommend an evaluation?

Just as a side note- in my state (we have since stopped this!!) I know of three adults that were "tested" as children via the state/public school system simply because that is what we did to adoptees yearsssssss ago! IQ testing was also done on them and all three were furious as adults. Frankly all children have some emotional issue and not saying what you are dealing with is or is not a real problem but seek a professional to truly assess if an evaluation is really warranted. 

 I, personally, wouldn't trust any answer given at 3.

 nor would I! and really if anyone would, that person just wants your money!

ETA- if you did have a score for the younger one- what would you do with it/what purpose does it server for you to have this?

just wondering because I don't get the need in the first place in relationship to what you have described

Edited by serenbat - 8/5/12 at 10:58am

[heatherdeg]

In regard to the 3yo, I'm trying to determine whether she's behaving like a 1yo in some areas (especially feeding) because she has the mental capacity of a 1yo.

And to be fair, if you have a 3yo where you have concerns, you don't always know they ARE neurotypical until they've been evaluated... right?  Not that I care to test my daughter, I'm just trying to figure out wth her issue is.  She is emotionally intense but there are other problems with her that COULD be stress/trauma but could be intelligence.  Some of it is feeding (and she's been evaluated for feeding--she has some texture issues but nothing bad enough to warrant the fact that she's still taking most of her calories by bottle and an allergenic formula.  She'll be 4yo in November).  That's probably the one that is the most clear to explain in typing.

We don't have a family doctor where we live.  But both kids are scheduled to see their former ped in late Sept. when we make a trip back home (he also saw them last year for an annual). He's profoundly laid back and while I usually really love that, he's annoyed the daylights out of me with her feeding so I'm not banking on him having much more to say.  I guess we'll see.

The 8yo hasn't been tested for 3 years (so, since he was 5).  I don't have to test him this year, but at some point I will HAVE to do it if he wants to continue on in his Saturday enrichment classes for "gifted" kids.  That being said, that program doesn't require IQ testing--they require achievement testing (so really, not necessarily gifted kids--but at least academically advanced).  He carries a diagnosis of Asperger's that I don't feel he was appropriately evaluated for (we've relocated and really, I am now unfamiliar with the testing for this age range in the spectrum but way familiar at the younger ages and there was no objective measurement given at his last two evals--one that removed his PDD-NOS dx and the other that added an Asperger's dx two years later... the "evals" were so ridiculous that I actually called the insurance company with the one that removed the PDD-NOS dx... she literally sat with ME and the DSM-IV criteria and asked me for each one "do you think he's like this?"     The one that dx'd Asperger's spent about 40 minutes with ds and I.  No objective measurement tools/criteria--just his opinion but because he was a Dr. he could dx).

[serenbat]

And to be fair, if you have a 3yo where you have concerns, you don't always know they ARE neurotypical until they've been evaluated... right?  Not that I care to test my daughter, I'm just trying to figure out wth her issue is.  She is emotionally intense but there are other problems with her that COULD be stress/trauma but could be intelligence.

I don't get this?  most are NOT tested and you have not described anything that would warrant it-delays and extreme behaviors usually are what needs to be looked at but IQ and a 3 year old for these- I don't understand what you mean??

Intelligence is not something that you can change to deal with her stress/trauma and I don't get where you are going with this at all

- please seek out a qualified professional 

[heatherdeg]

Thanks for your loving, gentle and kind advice serenbat.  And thank you for reading my posts thoroughly instead of skimming.

[serenbat]

I feel it is highly insulting to your child what you would like to do and a professional would be best to address if there is a delay that would warrant an evaluation or not.

This is not the section but I urge you to speak to older adoptees and find out from those who were tested and tested and tested how they feel prior to doing this to your child. Why would knowing this number (IQ) at this age be accurate, let alone be of assistance? Having it explained to me that some come off with the deep-seated resentment and equate it to (WWII egenetics) I would seriously seek professional assiatance in your case.

I simply do not see the relationship you are drawing from her IQ and these issues. 

again! 

 you don't always know they ARE neurotypical until they've been evaluated... right?  

I would hate to see the day when all children are tested / evaluated in this manner to determine IF they are neurotypical and the ramifications of doing so is immense! The suggestion that we do not know until they are evaluated????????? WOW! I can't believe this is even here 

[heatherdeg]

Since you don't take a hint, let me point out that you are focusing on half of a statement.  Let me highlight the first half for you:

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

And to be fair, if you have a 3yo where you have concerns, you don't always know they ARE neurotypical until they've been evaluated...

I realize YOU don't have concerns about my child because I haven't written a novel about her here and the feeding issues I gave as an example seemed to be skimmed over or disregarded.  I realize you have made a lot of assumptions about who I am and what I haven't done.  Those are your assumptions.  It might be the more "actually trying to help someone" route to ask if these things are done rather than assume.

Frankly, my 3yo's issue don't even belong in this forum; but since I was asking about testing and many parents here have 2E kids (and other non-gifted kids, I'm sure) I thought I would throw that out there in case people had constructive input.

[serenbat]

 seems a lot of us don't get it!

I agree with others that an iq test for a 3 year old is inaccurate. Although when an eval for such a young child needs to be done, they try to guess at iq, they really are just making a guess based on the whole eval.

 intelligence testing for a 3 year old likely won't be very fruitful. 

 

Just chiming in with another anecdote about early IQ tests often being inaccurate. My DS (also gifted + Aspergers) had a completely average IQ on his initial eval at 5. That threw me much more than the ASD because it just seemed wrong, so off from my experience of him and from what others observed. In two subsequent IQ tests (both for participation in research studies -- I don't put him through them for kicks!) at ages 7 and 8 1/2, he was solidly in the gifted range. I, personally, wouldn't trust any answer given at 3.
 

 

 

your snide remarks directed at me certainly don't help you - I have read and assume the others did as well

 Some of it is feeding (and she's been evaluated for feeding

in my area that generally means evaluated first by an MD to determine enough cause for a full evaluation by another qualified professional - assuming this was done- please seek out professional help if you don't think she was properly assessed 

Edited by serenbat - 8/8/12 at 10:33am

[Linda on the move]

Hetherdeg,

The overall attitude about testing on this board is different than the special needs board. On this board, there is an overall trend that testing can open doors, but doesn't serve much purpose beyond that. On the special needs board, there is an overall trend that testing can provide helpful information that allows parents and other adults in their lives to better meet the needs of a child.

(of course there are exceptions in what posters say, but those are trends I've noticed in years of being active on both boards)

Because of this trend, there are more moms with more kids with testing/eval experience on that board than this board.

You are right that evals are how it is determined if a child is neurotypical. There are specific types of evals to determine certain kinds of things, like speech evals, occupational therapy evals, etc.

You might post on the special needs board about what is going on with your sweet child and see if some of the moms know what sort of evaluation might shed some light on what is going on with her.

[serenbat]

OP as pointed out to you evaluations are done mostly at that age for specific needs (feeding, speech, etc) but most children are not evaluated in regards to IQ (as you originally posted in your first posting) and IQ evaluations at 3 (or there about) is what many do find highly questionable and the presidents that would set if we were to start basing children on having to be evaluated to see if they are neurotypical is so very dangerous!

I feel these issues do not belong in the section and are more of special needs related.

[joensally]

For your son, a WISC or Stanford Binet would identify his IQ and allow for entry into programs.  It won't tell you about sources of emotional challenges, but there are various screening tools that psychs use to tease out executive function issues as well as DSM disorders (like the BASC and others).  They're the inventory checklists that you and teachers (if involved) complete.  As for ASD, the ADOS/ADIR are the standard in many jurisdictions, but there are other valid tools that can be employed.  I would not trust physician judgement on this without a standardized and valid tool being employed.

I also really like the book Bright Not Broken, which deals with ASD, ADHD and gifted - how the criteria for all three often describe the same behaviours but ascribe different drivers and prescribe very different approaches.  VERY interesting read.

For your daughter, here's a link to the Ages and Stages Questionnaire online for free.  It's a good place to start. http://www.easterseals.com/site/PageNavigator/ntlc10_mffc_homepageasq.html

:)

[joensally]

Back to add.  For your daughter, Bruce Perry stuff is really interesting (re trauma), also this book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Whole-Brain-Child-Revolutionary-Strategies/dp/0553807919/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344530790&sr=8-1&keywords=brain+siegel

I also like Smart but Scattered (re executive functioning), and found Kids, Parents and Power Struggles helpful, whether issues were "gifted" issues or not.  I find stuff for kids with ASDs helpful as well, and Seng's a good read too.  I have not found any one place that's met our various needs and complexities.  I don't filter everything through a gifted lense, since that may explain part of what's happening, but the solution/strategy is going to be whatever happens to work for my kid (I think temperament is more a variable than giftedness, and I don't think sensitivity is synonymous with gifted - my gifted kids are hyper-sensitive and even SPD, but the strategies that work don't come from a gifted approach).  Also, the outside world isn't going to take a gifted approach, so we need to find strategies that are transferable, understandable to others and that enhance the child's ability to regulate sooner.  I also like the book When the Labels Don't Fit.

Up thread you said:

Quote:

I don't know how I feel about this.  If his emotional issues are really NOT a factor of his perception of things based on his intelligence, I have to wonder how effective that would be.  Have to think on that.  I honestly am looking to reduce the amount of study-trial-error time involved (which is really only one of the multiple concerns I have with this advice).

I get this; I'm sorry the following is choppy but I can't articulate clearly what I'm thinking.  Here's where I've landed with the horrible experiences I've had navigating two kids through their world to date, one of whom is 2E and the other one who is intense and complicated and has had an extraordinarily rocky couple of years.  I'll use DS (2E) as an example.  He has at least 5 separate diagnoses, and it turns out that some of them come from the same part of the brain, and are frequently co-occuring.  I'll use attention, for instance.  Many of his diagnoses have attentional issues as a behavioural outcome - so when he's inattentive, which is it?  One of the variables is his giftedness and lack of academic fit.  It could be the cause.  <shrug>   It could be written output, or it could be sensory issues...they are all happening simultaneously, so I don't know which one it is at any one time.  Many of his diagnoses have anxiety as an outcome/ behavioural outcome, although he doesn't actually express a lot of anxiety.  Rigid thinking and a requirement for precision (like your bionicles example) could be temperament, or it could be a "stress" response.  I try to mediate my son's sensory world as much as possible, while actively working on his self-regulation skills. I try to make his daytime environment (school in our case, this year) work as best I can.  Study-trial-error come up occasionally because he changes, and what works for him changes. He's almost 10 and he's less naive.  He's had ALL of the evaluations and I've read ALL of the books and there's no straightforward approach.  My son's perception of things is influenced by his intelligence, temperament, sensory experiences, processing challenges, executive functioning, divergent thinking style...    

[heatherdeg]

Linda--thanks.  I think my reference to my daughter would've been better served on the SN board.  Mistake to have thrown it in here as it's clearly derailed things and taken out of context. I guess on this board there is an assumption of intelligence and things are viewed through that lens.  Will post for her over there when I have a chance.  At the moment, I'm just worn out.

Originally Posted by joensally 

I get this; I'm sorry the following is choppy but I can't articulate clearly what I'm thinking.  Here's where I've landed with the horrible experiences I've had navigating two kids through their world to date, one of whom is 2E and the other one who is intense and complicated and has had an extraordinarily rocky couple of years.  I'll use DS (2E) as an example.  He has at least 5 separate diagnoses, and it turns out that some of them come from the same part of the brain, and are frequently co-occuring.  I'll use attention, for instance.  Many of his diagnoses have attentional issues as a behavioural outcome - so when he's inattentive, which is it?  One of the variables is his giftedness and lack of academic fit.  It could be the cause.  <shrug>   It could be written output, or it could be sensory issues...they are all happening simultaneously, so I don't know which one it is at any one time.  Many of his diagnoses have anxiety as an outcome/ behavioural outcome, although he doesn't actually express a lot of anxiety.  Rigid thinking and a requirement for precision (like your bionicles example) could be temperament, or it could be a "stress" response.  I try to mediate my son's sensory world as much as possible, while actively working on his self-regulation skills. I try to make his daytime environment (school in our case, this year) work as best I can.  Study-trial-error come up occasionally because he changes, and what works for him changes. He's almost 10 and he's less naive.  He's had ALL of the evaluations and I've read ALL of the books and there's no straightforward approach.  My son's perception of things is influenced by his intelligence, temperament, sensory experiences, processing challenges, executive functioning, divergent thinking style...    

So, first, thank you for everything in BOTH of your posts (coincidentally I'm actually JUST in the beginnings of Smart but Scattered ).  Yeah... it just gets complicated and finding someone to ferret out what's what has been a nightmare.  What's worse is that it just goes against everything we've done in the past.  Before, it was all about dealing with the symptom/issue regardless of the source and as he gets older, that's just so NOT working for us.  But really, your posts are enormously helpful--so thanks for that.