Why not spanking ?

[Jarynsmom2006]

I haven't been here for a while and I know I will probably get slammed for even asking this but .... Why is everyone totally against spanking for discipline ? Just curious on everyone's views and opinions. 

Thanks  :)

[heatherdeg]

I don't equate spanking with discipline.  I can discipline my kids without spanking them.

I am a GD convert so I remember the days when I didn't think it was the worst thing to spank your kid.  Now, I really do.  In my heart of hearts.  I hadn't really been in a position to spank my child very OFTEN so it wasn't really "in my face".  We did a lot of redirection, etc. and so it wasn't a common event.  We had plenty to turn to first, but spanking wasn't off the table.  

But then life got stressful and the kids got upset and misbehaved way more and my patience was nil and the incidents happened more.  And I really saw that they were emotionally hurt when I did it.  Not in a manipulative way, but really, really hurt.

Well, their behavior got to be SO bad that I read a book that pointed out that kids act based on one of two emotions: love and fear.  When you look at it that way, you realize that you're hitting them when they're scared.  Wow.

Once I overhauled my view on the whole thing, my kids behaviors changed.  Fast.  In a good way.  And I quickly realized that the spanking was more about my own lack of patience and my own inability to put my kids feelings and emotional well-being first.  But then, I didn't see their negative behaviors as fear-based (because they're not obviously fear-based) I saw them as vengeful, manipulative or angry.

And then I saw something somewhere (a photo meme or something) that pointed out that if my kid were older, doing it would be illegal; and for me, I really wanted to respect my child as a person.  A little person.  And I wanted them to respect themselves as little people.  I can't do that if I treat them like... well, I don't know what I would have in my life that I would hit and it would be a productive thing.

That's my perspective.

[One_Girl]

Spanking isn't discipline, it is a reaction to frustration, anger, and/or lack of better ways to deal with a situation. Hitting because you don't know what else to do teaches kids nothing except to hit when they don't know what else to do. It isn't a punishment that tends to be used right away so it tends to be done so it typically either takes away any incentive for a child to behave or is used on a child no longer misbehaving. It is something many parents don't want to actually follow through with so kids learn to only listen when there think their parent will actually follow through. I prefer a gentler and more effective approach that can be used consistently without feeling squeemish about following through.

[Vancouver Mommy]

I'm just curious to know why you're asking?
 

[Jarynsmom2006]

Thanks for the response ... I am just trying to figure out the right path with my son. He just turned 6 in April. His father and I have been separated since he was 2. We haven't had the best relationship since, we have tried to get along and do what is right for my son, however some things have hindered that and gotten in the way. For the first 2 yrs, I didn't require his father to pay child support, but finally got to the point where I Had to have help. I was working a full time job as well as a part time and he was paying Nothing, and I never kept our son from spending time with him because my main concern since the day I found out I was pregnant has been my son and what is best for him ( well at least what I feel is best ). Long story short, when he was served with child support papers, he filed for full custody a week later, stating I was physically abusive to my child which was so far from the truth. Yes I believe in spanking, but it was rarely practiced then. He was the one from the start that said he would be spanked and I leaned more toward the other methods /forms. However he had met a new woman who happened to be getting her masters in child psychology and I strongly believe it was suggested by her how to raise our son. I work as a 911 dispatcher and work swing shifts, I have since he was 6 months old, instead of daycare , my parents have kept him and have had a huge part in raising him. Fast forward to today. Father is now married to the female and they now have an 8 month old little boy. He doesn't communicate very well with me in some parenting issues, instead sends "messages" thru my 6 yo as to what he and her think is not good or how things should be handled. My son is starting to become a tad more headstrong and more argumentative than he use to be. He isn't bad by any means, but I don't want it to get to that point either. I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall with him going back and forth between 3 places and so many different forms of discipline :/

[LexiDrewMama]

I was raised by a mother who spanked me quite often.  I never learned anything from those spankings, but I did fear her.  A child should never fear a parent.  I have always felt that raising a child with respect and kindness teaches respect and kindness.  Violence teaches violence.  Once I was grown and my mother and I had developed a working relationship we were able to talk about the spanking and she regrets it... I don't want that for me or for my daughter.

[Jarynsmom2006]

I have been around several kids who were disciplined both ways , spanking and just talking/explaining ect. and quite frankly the children who were spanked were more well behaved. It seems as tho the ones disciplined by other forms walked all over their parents. The parents called them "high spirited" etc , I personally disagree with the explanation. The other post was part of why I am asking , and like I said , just trying to get several opinions and viewpoints on it. 

[Jarynsmom2006]

I guess it's mostly a matter of opinion. My husband now was disciplined "old school" so to speak, his father spanked him quite frequently , and his 6 brothers and sisters. They have all turned out to be good people. My husband is a police officer and has been for 15 yrs now. His viewpoint now is that he has more respect for his dad than anyone else he knows because he taught him right from wrong ... 

[katelove]

I think there is a long continuum with smacking on one end and permissive parenting or no discipline at all on the other end. We do not hit our child and my DH and his former wife did not hit their now 30yo who is a delightful woman.

We choose not to hit for several reasons

-. We see it as a human rights issue, it's not ok to hit adults therefore there's no reason why it's ok to hit children

- smacking relies on fear to achieve its effect and we don't want to develop our relationship based on fear

- there is some evidence to show that, for some people, it has long term consequences in terms of depression and/or anxiety disorders later in life

- there is also some evidence to show that it isn't a very effective form of disciPline anyway and just encourages children to hide their actions to avoid punishment

We only have a 2yo so our strategies won't be the same as for an older child but we try to tailor what we do to her level of development. So, for the moment it is distraction and redirection and empathising when we have to say no. We try to create an environment where we don't have to say no too often but she doesn't walk all over us. We don't allow her to destroy things, write on walls or eat ice cream three a day. All of which she has wanted to do at various times :-)

[Mama2mc]

My parents did, and they were extremely abusive, but no one knew. Outsiders thought we were the perfect family, but my mother spanked even for what she imagined others could have thought about me, I was never safe. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. Today, I have no contact with my parents, would be overjoyed if I never saw them again, and I do my best to keep my children safely away from them. There is NO WAY I'm doing the same to my kids. By the way, DH is also against spanking, but that doesn't mean we're letting them walk all over us.

[transylvania_mom]

It may be helpful if you look at things not as a "me versus him" situation, but see the child as a human being worthy of respect, just because he is. Not because he behaves in an appropriate way, or because he conforms to some standards of behaviour. If you see him as doing his best to please you, but sometimes lacks the means. For example, ds teases dd; my first reaction would be to yell: "how many times have I told you etc. etc. !!" But then I realize it's snack time and they are acting up because they might be hungry.

I believe spanking works with many children (in the sense that it stops unwanted behaviour) in the moment, but at what cost! It affects the child's self-confidence, trust in the parent, the relationship between the two. And there are other ways to discipline (not punish), which are more work, but worth it.
 

[Adaline'sMama]

"It's not okay to hit."

How can I teach my child that very important lesson, if I cant even abide by it myself?

[Cynthia Mosher]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

"It's not okay to hit."

How can I teach my child that very important lesson, if I cant even abide by it myself?

I love this. 

[McGucks]

I have never spanked either of my children or hit them in any way (I make this distinction because I know plenty of parents who say "Oh, I would never hit my kids...but I do spank them.")  A spank, by definition, is a hit.

Other posters have made lots of good points that I won't reiterate, but as a public school teacher, I have sat through lots of child abuse prevention plays where a group does a presentation about "good touches and bad touches."  Oftentimes, the big message is that nobody should touch any of your body that is covered by a bathing suit (ie:  genitals and breasts).  Yet, many people think it's just fine to spank on the bottom.  Quite a paradox.

I don't spank because it's not fair for big people to hit little people.  I don't spank because hitting is not okay.  I don't spank because it's mean and bullying.  I don't spank because I don't learn rules better by being hit, so why would I think doing it to somebody half my size was a good idea or an effective teaching strategy?

Think about this:  if a husband said he spanked his wife once in a while, but only when she really needed it, would you think that was okay? Of course not.

It's a human rights issue.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Jarynsmom2006 

I have been around several kids who were disciplined both ways , spanking and just talking/explaining ect. and quite frankly the children who were spanked were more well behaved. It seems as tho the ones disciplined by other forms walked all over their parents. The parents called them "high spirited" etc , I personally disagree with the explanation. The other post was part of why I am asking , and like I said , just trying to get several opinions and viewpoints on it. 

I will posit that the kids that you've been around are behaving because there is an adult there and they are behaving in order to avoid being spanked.  I would say a better assessment would be when the kids were around just other kids with no adults around (which is difficult to assess without hidden cameras, lol)  - how do they act THEN? 

It depends on your goals.  If you want an obedient child who doesn't misbehave in public and doesn't challenge anything you say, then maybe spanking is the way to go (though I've never really heard of a kid spanked only once in their lifetime, so I am dubious of how much it "works" anyway).  I don't want that.  I want kids who are going to think about things, and decide right from wrong on their own, and not be afraid to negotiate or argue back in the face of something they think is wrong.  That means that they're going to test me, because they have to practice somewhere.  I may complain about it, but in the end it's really what I want.  I don't want obedient children who grow up into obedient adults (or rebellious adults from backlash).  I want thinking children who grow up to be thinking adults.  For instance - my kiddo, who is not always terrifcally behaved, twice in school last year stood up for other kids who were being harrassed when teachers weren't watching - stood right up to classmates and defended the other kids.  THAT is the kid I want.  And if that means they sometimes stand up to me, or don't listen to me every single time, then so be it.  I'll take being obnoxious sometimes to get that. 

FWIW, I don't consider all spanking abusive.  I think it's a lousy (and sometimes creepy) way to parent, but I think there is a definite difference between garden variety spanking and beating.  I don't agree with either, but think one needs a parent to learn better techniques, and the other needs the parents to go to jail.

My kids are 6 and 8.  They challenge me a lot of the time.  They are not perfect, and neither am I.  As they mature, they are more civilized in public. It is, in fact, working out like it was "supposed to", though sometimes in the heat of a challenging moment I wonder if it is worth it.  I'll tell you:  IT IS.

[dkorovikov]

[deleted]

Edited by dkorovikov - 11/12/12 at 2:57pm

[nextcommercial]

For me, it just never felt right.  I just couldn't spank her.  She's grown now, and I made this decision before the internet, and before it was "popular".  

I've never had any problems using a more casual discipline with her.  I made things accessible to her so she was successful without help.  I allowed her to make mistakes and hurt herself.   She had lots of freedom to explore and learn things the hard way.  

She could do something wrong or bad, and not have a consequence as long as she could figure out how to fix what she did.   

I have a daycare in my home, so, I also had seven other kids here at the same time, and I have never used time out, or spanking or anything.  (I have lost my cool and had meltdowns before though..i'm not perfect)  

Anyway, I wasn't really spanked as a kid, and I turned out OK, so it just felt unnatural to spank someone else.

[artekah]

To expand on what dkorovikov said about how research does NOT support the use of spanking, and actually shows that it's damaging, here is an excellent, to-the-point research report: http://www.phoenixchildrens.com/PDFs/principles_and_practices-of_effective_discipline.pdf

I second what others said about spanking does NOT equal more discipline, and the lack of spanking does NOT indicate permissiveness. I think spanking is the lazy way out. I believe most people have the urge (especially if they were spanked themselves) because, yeah, kids can make you feel rage--no surprise there! But acting out your rage on someone smaller/weaker is irresponsible, and makes you a poor role model. It's mean. It doesn't actually help anything, just hurts everyone involved.

It makes me happy that you are asking this question and thinking it through! So many people never even stop to question the patterns they've been taught, kwim?

[Mama Soltera]

It's teaching them that it's okay to hit people when you don't like what they're doing. It promotes violence. It also teaches them that it's okay for people touch them in ways that hurt them. It also creates too much confusion. (It's only okay to hit smaller people than you but not people your same size or bigger. Hitting family is okay but not people outside the family.) With my kids, I tell them it's only okay when it's truly in self-defense. Also, if you hit your kids, you really do lose a lot of trust and respect that they could have had in you. It's just not worth it.  

[Mama Soltera]

Originally Posted by Mama Soltera 

It's teaching them that it's okay to hit people when you don't like what they're doing. It promotes violence. It also teaches them that it's okay for people touch them in ways that hurt them. It also creates too much confusion. (It's only okay to hit smaller people than you but not people your same size or bigger. Hitting family is okay but not people outside the family.) With my kids, I tell them it's only okay when it's truly in self-defense. Also, if you hit your kids, you really do lose a lot of trust and respect that they could have had in you. It's just not worth it.  

Oops! I must've hit quote instead of edit. Sorry!