Why not spanking ? - Page 8

[Peggy O'Mara]

It's easier for me now as an older person to look back and see the process. I thought as a younger person that as soon as I thought of something, I should be able to implement it. Now I know that change doesn't happen that way. We have to think about making a change for a while, make the change and then it takes time to implement the change. They say that the best indicator of being able to change is the ability to start over. Think of the person who quits smoking. If they give up when they mess up and have a cigarette they will just go back to smoking again and feel like a failure. But, the key is to let go of the self blame and just get back focused on the goal, to start over. We have to do that with our kids all the time.

For me, learning gentle discipline was/is like learning a new language. I had reminders on my refrigerator, read a bunch of books, had the privilege of being able to interview great thinkers. It really helped to immerse myself in the new way of thinking about children so I could have a model to follow.

Here are some books that I found helpful when I was a young parent:

Summerhill: A Radical Approach to Child Rearing

The Magic Years: Understanding and Handling the Problems of Early Childhood

The Child Under Six

Between Parent and Child

Liberated Parents, Liberated Children: Your Guide to a Happier Family

How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Can Talk.

What books have you all found helpful to learn new ways of gentle discipline?

[meemee]

what has really helped me with GD has actually NOT been reading gentle discipline books. i mean yeah i read them, it made sense, but when i was actually facing a situation IRL all what i read went out the window.

what truly helped me was reading the series by Louis Ames Bates. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Two-Year-Old-Louise-Bates-Ames/dp/0440506387

i had to understand what my child was going therough. i had to see my child differently. its a way of seeing that was never shown to me before. society assumes you understand that. like for instance when dd was a new one year old i realized i was getting angry with her because i was taking her actions personally. duh! you would expect me get it that she is young and she is just being herself. but no i had been always used to being pushed for a personal reason. 

just understanding that really changed my life. i read those books religiously from babyhood to age 4. because it helped me gain compassion towards my child. instead of getting angry i would be so empathec. poor thing she is so emotional. in fact sometimes i would be laughing because she was so ridiculous. how can a one year old have so mauch anger that she would be flat out on hte street screaming.

i also learnt the 3 golden rule - rest, exercise and full belly. 

to me understanding children is what helped me on my road to GD. 

however having a v. hormonal almost 10 year old i am being challenged again. not that i am going to spank my child but i discover i am 'spanking' my child whtough words. silence and empathy is still VERY important. more actually than less. 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

however having a v. hormonal almost 10 year old i am being challenged again. not that i am going to spank my child but i discover i am 'spanking' my child whtough words. silence and empathy is still VERY important. more actually than less. 

You too?  I'm off to my DC's school orientation where they always give us a copy of a chapter from the child development book the school uses. I'll post here when I get back with the name of the book. 

For books we loved: 

• Becoming the Parent You Want to Be 
• Unconditional Parenting 
• Taking Children Seriously 
• A good child development text book 

[Christalena]

For another fantastic book, Self Esteem: A Family Affair by Jean Illsley Clarke

[transylvania_mom]

My all-time favourite is "Kids Are Worth It!" by Barbara Coloroso.

Also, I just finished "Parenting without Power Struggles", which I found useful.
 

[Peggy O'Mara]

Originally Posted by meemee 

what truly helped me was reading the series by Louis Ames Bates. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Two-Year-Old-Louise-Bates-Ames/dp/0440506387

i also learnt the 3 golden rule - rest, exercise and full belly. 

to me understanding children is what helped me on my road to GD. 

Thanks for the Bates suggestion.

And, thanks for the 3 golden rule. So true! Most problems with kids are because of low blood sugar or being tired. Us too!

[graciegal]

Originally Posted by LexiDrewMama 

I was raised by a mother who spanked me quite often.  I never learned anything from those spankings, but I did fear her.  A child should never fear a parent.  I have always felt that raising a child with respect and kindness teaches respect and kindness.  Violence teaches violence.  Once I was grown and my mother and I had developed a working relationship we were able to talk about the spanking and she regrets it... I don't want that for me or for my daughter.

I was spanked just a few times by my dad and I feared doing things that might make him upset at me. And thank heavens too, it kept me on the straight and narrow through my teenage years and I LOVE my father for all he is worth now. Just because a parent spanks doesn't mean the kid turns out bad or hates the parent, just wanted to mention that.

[Russi]

I know I might get in trouble again but I have a boy that called his mother 4 letter words and showed the finger when he was about 10 years old. We had him in therapy and the therapist told us that spanking might work. But it has to be done the right way. Before somebody yells at me again for child abuse I must say that after one year it was the one and only spanking I gave him and since them I have not heard any more f or b words. For him it worked and I am so happy I did it. But as I said it has to be done with love. I do not want to promote violence toward children at all. If you are interested e-mail me and I am happy to communicate with you.

[AmandaT]

Originally Posted by Russi 

... one and only spanking I gave him... For him it worked and I am so happy I did it. But as I said it has to be done with love. I do not want to promote violence toward children at all. If you are interested e-mail me and I am happy to communicate with you.

Bolding mine.

What is spanking if not violence?

I'm glad that it seemed to work out with this child, and for now only needed to be done once. However, there are many other tactics that can be used with children that do not involve ANY violence. What will you do if he resumes the behavior at 14 or 16?

[meemee]

i agree with PP. 

to me spanking is violence (please forgive me if i come off as high handed. this is a v. trigger issue for me).

not only because i think so. but because it completely HORRIFIES dd.

the thing is well if its ok to spank even once (which i did once in reflex mode and still find it hard to forgive myself) then should not our children have the same right? why is their need less important than us. why cant they hit us for not complying and so why should we complain if they hit us. 

i have been hit in a loving way. doesnt matter if it was in a loving way. i was still hit. hitting is hitting. at each moment it broke my heart that my dad would raise his hand to someone he called the apple of his eye. i could not get that. 

i could NEVER EVER think of hitting dd. to me that is a failure in my books. i discovered there was no reason to do that. i talked. i explained. i said how what dd did affected me. i explained society norms. i diverted, distracted and taught her how a stove was hot so dangerous, what a soft touch on the cat meant instead of hitting a cat. how running in teh street would break your body and mama and dadddy would cry and cry and cry and life would never be the same again. sometimes dd wouldnt understand my words. that meant she didnt have to do what i say. it meant she still needed supervision in that area. 

at 10 which is what my dd is now, i would NEVER EVER think of EVER raising my finger on her. i wouldnt even think of it. i would see the word and gesture as a sign of extreme frustration and anger and work on how to help her deal with those feelings. thinking about my experience not repeating it has everything to do with fear, never love and i NEVER EVER want my dd to fear me. which she doesnt. 

to me if dd is ever afraid of me - that would be total failure in my books. 

[Peggy O'Mara]

It can seem that because something turns out OK, it was justified, but the end does not justify the means. And, while we obviously can love even those who abuse us, hitting another person is abuse. It is called abuse when someone feels entitled to power or control over another. 

[Russi]

Thank you for your responds. I respect your opinions and for the most part I agree. You should never ever hit your child in anger. Also you should never scream at them or make them feel unworthy. It would be ideal if we never had to discipline our children's at all. Time out, taken away privileges grounding can also be painful and disrupt the family life. Sending a specific child to there room alone can be abuse too. The best consequence for an action is the one you don't have to give at all. Like most questions in life the question of spanking or not is not black or white. It lays somewhere between. Every child and situation is different.

I am very happy if no parents have to spank there child ever. It is not as easy as telling the child that it can not have TV for a week or is grounded for the weekend. If that works for your child great, but if not I can not let the entire family suffer for month when I can end a specific bad habit by giving him a spanking.

[transylvania_mom]

nt

Edited by transylvania_mom - 9/7/12 at 10:32am

[Midwesterner04]

I see that you are new here, Russi. Welcome! You may be interested to check out other threads and recommended resources throughout Mothering's Gentle Discipline forum--there are lots of good ideas for avoiding the month-long groundings, angry time-outs, and similar punishments you seem concerned about. Best of luck!
 

[Peggy O'Mara]

Russi, I appreciate your point of view, but we're not into defending or condoning spanking here at Mothering. The evidence is overwhelming that spanking is harmful. It is not just an opinion. I'm happy to offer you resources to understand this point of view, but want to make it clear that we're not here to debate the virtues of spanking. There is no debate.

[elus0814]

Originally Posted by Peggy O'Mara 

 It is called abuse when someone feels entitled to power or control over another. 

I understand the point you're making but what is a parent if not a person who has power and control over their children? If, in my capacity as a parent, I did not have any power or control my children would be running the show. I do think children can/should be asked their opinions on various matters but that does not mean the parent gives up power and control.

For example, I have the power to put my kids in public school even though they enjoy being homeschooled. Yes, I do feel entitled to that power as their parent but I do not think that feeling like I should have the power to send my children to whatever school I see fit to send them to equates to me being an abusive person. 

As far as control goes - as a parent I am entitled to feed my children what I want as long as they're healthy, nourished, and growing. I am not obligated to feed them corn flakes or turnips or anything. I, as their parent, have control over what they eat (and wear and who they play with and so on). I don't use the power and control I have to starve them or make them wear rags but I'm still in control nonetheless.

A parent using the power and control they're entitled to in a way that hurts their children would be abuse, but having or feeling entitled to that power and control is not abuse. 

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by Russi 

Thank you for your responds. I respect your opinions and for the most part I agree. You should never ever hit your child in anger. Also you should never scream at them or make them feel unworthy. It would be ideal if we never had to discipline our children's at all. Time out, taken away privileges grounding can also be painful and disrupt the family life. Sending a specific child to there room alone can be abuse too. The best consequence for an action is the one you don't have to give at all. Like most questions in life the question of spanking or not is not black or white. It lays somewhere between. Every child and situation is different.

I am very happy if no parents have to spank there child ever. It is not as easy as telling the child that it can not have TV for a week or is grounded for the weekend. If that works for your child great, but if not I can not let the entire family suffer for month when I can end a specific bad habit by giving him a spanking.

While I agree with this, I think I am typically more understanding of a parent who loses her cool and smacks a kid than one who is planning to spank and doing it intentionally with an intended result.

Personally, I think most people slip up and make mistakes. We apologize for them and move on- but IMO planning to spank and doing it as punishment or as a way to "show" a child that they cant do a certain thing is worse than losing your cool.

[AmandaT]

I completely agree. 

[MichelleZB]

Originally Posted by elus0814 

I understand the point you're making but what is a parent if not a person who has power and control over their children? 

Yes, indeed! That is the question, isn't it? What is a parent? Do you have to have "power" to be a parent, or is it something else?

I can't possibly agree with you that making dinner for your kids is an example of how you have control over them. You're not controlling them, you're catering. If cooking for someone means you control them, the chef at my favourite restaurant is my overlord by now.

[The4OfUs]

Well, you likely control what you're feeding them by controlling what come into the house.  Most parents (note, I wrote most) do not ask their children every meal every day what they want......at some point the parent decided what kind of food they wanted to feed the kid and made that the available food in the house; something a child has no control over since they can't get to the store and buy their own.  If you go to a restaurant and don't like what'sbeing served as an adult, you can go elsewhere.  

Every decision a parent makes about restricting access to anything or stop a child from doing something they want to is a measure of control.  It's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you abuse it.