Dr Took Son from her Arms to Forcibly Vaccinate - Page 2

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

..or she did not like her blog being discussed over here.  

Having privacy concerns has little to do with whether or not her story is true.

If she didn't want her blog discussed, why did she submit her post to Gaia Health????  Privacy...she's doing it wrong.

[Honey693]

No med student is going to risk that.  They'd be booted out of the program.  No doctor is going to physically assault someone either.  They might shame and scare and mentally screw with you, but they are not going to risk a lawsuit and having their license yanked b/c they physically assaulted someone.  That coupled with her blog being private just screams "I made this up for attention" to me.

[kathymuggle]

Here is a story of a teen vaccinated against her will:

http://www.ktradionetwork.com/news-stories-2/student-receives-vaccination-against-will/

Google has numerous other such stories.

I think the story in the OP  is plausible - unlikely, but plausible.

It is unlikely because most doctors are not going to rip a baby out of its mothers arms - or risk a lawsuit.

It is plausible because doctors do overstep bound from time to time - people in all professions overstep bounds from time to time.  I had a doctor overstep a bound with me (not in relation to vaccines).  They are human.  I think an area such as vaccines where doctors are enraged by people who are refusing to vaccinate their babies is an area where extreme type of behaviour might be more likely.  Moreover, I think some professionals do tend to think they can get away with bullying people - who is society going to believe?  It does not usually extend to getting physical but it can.

Edited by kathymuggle - 8/2/12 at 7:45pm

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Here is a story of a teen vaccinated against her will:

http://www.ktradionetwork.com/news-stories-2/student-receives-vaccination-against-will/

Google has numerous other such stories.

I think the story is plausible - unlikely, but plausible.

It is unlikely because most doctors are not going to rip a baby out of its mothers arms - or risk a lawsuit.

It is plausible because doctors do overstep bound from time to time - people in all professions overstep bounds from time to time.  I had a doctor overstep a bound with me (not in relation to vaccines).  They are human.  I think an area such as vaccines where doctors are enraged by people who are refusing to vaccinate their babies is an area where extreme type of behaviour might be more likely.  Moreover, I think some professionals do tend to think they can get away with bullying people - who is society going to believe?  It does not usually extend to getting physical but it can.

Well, if Kevin Trudeau says it, it MUST be true. After all, he's best known for his honesty. Oh, except for those fraud and larceny conviction.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau

Seriously, though, I don't know any doctors that are "enraged " by someone's lack of vaccinations. And I know lots of doctors. It's really easy to just dismiss a patient with whom you can't reach a mutually agreeable treatment plan. A lot easier than assaulting them.

[emmy526]

What do you mean, 'private'?  i had no trouble viewing anything on it..

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

And now she's made her blog private.

Yup, no reason there to doubt her sincerity!

[emmy526]

And it was on Facebook as well...

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

If she didn't want her blog discussed, why did she submit her post to Gaia Health????  Privacy...she's doing it wrong.

[WildKingdom]

It was blocked for a while. Looks like its back up, with the doctors name removed.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Well, if Kevin Trudeau says it, it MUST be true. After all, he's best known for his honesty. Oh, except for those fraud and larceny conviction.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau
Seriously, though, I don't know any doctors that are "enraged " by someone's lack of vaccinations. And I know lots of doctors. It's really easy to just dismiss a patient with whom you can't reach a mutually agreeable treatment plan. A lot easier than assaulting them.

Treatment for what?  Their non-sick baby?

Ah, so the link I provided may not have been from a great source.  It does not change my point.   The internet is full of stories on doctors who assault patients - here is another one (Boston Globe).  Google and take your pick.  http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/06/05/connecticut-doctor-charged-with-patient-sex-assaults/UebA9tW9rszueRNxLwUTII/story.html

Are you trying to say that doctors never assault patients?

In any event: 

1.  neither I nor you know whether the link in the OP really happened 

2.  yeah, it is plausible.  Doctors are human beings, and human being assault others.

[WildKingdom]

Are you seriously comparing vaccinating a child to some sick pervert sexually assaulting a patient????

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Are you seriously comparing vaccinating a child to some sick pervert sexually assaulting a patient????

No. I was trying to point out doctors do assault patients occasionally.  

I am curious as to why you are coming onto the non-vax forum and declaring (and then arguing repeatedly ) that the doctor did not try and take the baby from her arms.  Crap happens.  Sometimes doctors are not perfect.

You can have a hunch on whether it is true or not, but unless you were there you cannot know.  

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

No. I was trying to point out doctors do assault patients occasionally.  

I am curious as to why you are coming onto the non-vax forum and declaring (and then arguing repeatedly ) that the doctor did not try and take the baby from her arms.  Crap happens.  Sometimes doctors are not perfect.

You can have a hunch on whether it is true or not, but unless you were there you cannot know.  

We can't, you're right. But neither can you. And we can point out flaws that make it unlikely.

It does matter, even if you don't think that vaccines are the be all end all, when hysteria starts making people make decisions out of fear. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

It does matter, even if you don't think that vaccines are the be all end all, when hysteria starts making people make decisions out of fear. 

Hysteria goes both ways 

The whole debate (not just on MDC) is very, very polarised and I see a lot of strong words, loud voices and sometimes hysteria, on both sides.  I get why - health and safety of children is at stake.  It must be very hard on those in research mode to try and figure out what to do amidst all this.

[pek64]

The way I read it, there was a lot of intimidation going on, but she never said there was contact. The student doctor advanced to take the child, and held out his arms to take the child, but she did not mention a tug-of-war with the child.

14 vaccinations is what was written. What was said may have been 14 vaccines.

I think the story is plausible.

The angry tone of the responses here from a medical representative just furthers the plausibility. Since those are angry and intimidating, it supports the claim that the doctor in the story was angry and intimidating.

[Mirzam]

It seems that this isn't a one off thing with doctors, unless Barbara Lebreque lied on television. The video dates back to 2009, so the figures quoted are wrong.

"They took Sierra from my arms and they vaccinated her"

Edited by Mirzam - 8/3/12 at 10:38am

[LiLStar]

I do not 100% believe the story. I'm more or less on the fence. That said, dr's forcibly do things to patients against their will, probably not "all the time" but..enough. It happens. And they get away with it. Ask the woman who attempted to vbac in a vbac ban hospital and her "oxygen" was general anesthesia? If I remember right, her baby was crowning, or nearly so. That wasn't even one of the court ordered cesarean horror stories (of which there are several) they took that one upon themselves. Yes, the story is fishy sounding. But the "no dr would ever risk that" argument can be proven wrong by about any long time member of ICAN.

[emmy526]

They certainly do assault patients...my dh went to a new dr for sinus trouble, and she gave him a prostate exam....we filed complaints with the ins and ins comm. for the state...that dr was a looney tune and a half...

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

No. I was trying to point out doctors do assault patients occasionally.  

I am curious as to why you are coming onto the non-vax forum and declaring (and then arguing repeatedly ) that the doctor did not try and take the baby from her arms.  Crap happens.  Sometimes doctors are not perfect.

You can have a hunch on whether it is true or not, but unless you were there you cannot know.  

[katelove]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

They certainly do assault patients...my dh went to a new dr for sinus trouble, and she gave him a prostate exam....we filed complaints with the ins and ins comm. for the state...that dr was a looney tune and a half...

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I am genuinely curious. Why did your DH take off his pants and lie down on his side if he hadn't consented to a prostate examination? Under Australian law that would probably be considered implied consent, unless the Dr told the pt they only wanted to look at the mole on their buttock or something and then did a PR as well.

[kathymuggle]

I agreed to a vaginal exam when I was in early labour with my firstborn. The doctor decided to strip my membranes while he was in there.  This was not something I agreed to or was prepared for - and it hurt!  

Does it prove the story in the OP is absolutely correct?  No.  Does it show that doctors occasionally overstep bounds - well, it certainly felt like it to me.

*edited to add:  I have have had many lovely doctors before and since.  I just don't think all doctors are some sort of evolved super-human who never overstep bounds or do wrong things.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 8/4/12 at 6:09am

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

They certainly do assault patients...my dh went to a new dr for sinus trouble, and she gave him a prostate exam....we filed complaints with the ins and ins comm. for the state...that dr was a looney tune and a half...

Why would he take his pants off if he was there for sinus issues.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 


Why would he take his pants off if he was there for sinus issues.

Because people, particularly middle-aged and older, have been indoctrinated to believe that physicians are all-knowing, and to believe that they are in a subordinated position to the physician.

Even in my generation, I was indoctrinated to believe that I could not/should not argue with a physician. "The doctor knows best" was what I'd always heard, from my parents, from the media, from the nurses.  Any time you ask a nurse if the doctor might have missed something, they ALWAYS say, "the doctor knows best."  My friends who are nurses tell me that that is what they are taught to say in nursing school.

So when my 4 1/2 pound preemie was taken from my arms (gently, not forcibly) by the nice nurse for the hep B vaccine when he was 4 hours old, I feebly protested that maybe he was too small and we should wait til he was 8 pounds, she said, "nonsense!  This is just routine, he can handle it!" And I didn't argue. (I had also been through 26 hours of induced labor, hyperemesis, and preeclampsia;  I wasn't exactly in good shape to either argue or do research.)

A few years later, I thought I was prepared.  Our pediatrician had agreed to delay the hep B birth dose, it was clearly written on my chart, and the OB/GYN was also on board. I had also told the nurses.

They didn't take my baby from my arms; they took him from the nursery while I was in the shower, and vaccinated him then, without my consent and without my knowledge.