Giftedness, ADHD or both? - Page 2

[A&A]

Consider grade skipping:

www.nationdeceived.org

[graciegal]

I mean no disrespect, but gifted is a term that is being seriously overused. I skipped kindergarten and 12th grade, went to college at 16, graduated when I was 19 with a science degree and two minors and I now have 3 Ph.Ds (all in hard sciences) and I'm 33 years old. I dont consider myself gifted. I was way smarter or maybe dedicated than other kids my age but gifted? I'm just saying that the term (and the things used to measure it) are suspect to me. So when someone labels your child as "gifted" it throws a kink into the realism about the situation. We all think our children are smart or gifted or advanced but the truth is that a very very small percent of the population is truly "gifted" above and beyond the rest of us. It's like winning the lottery, what are the chances? And you know, my school years were filled with boring stuff too, but I still enjoyed the process of it all and the events and such. The learning part of school is sometimes very small, so "not being able to pay attention because it's boring" also doesn't make sense to me. I remember  thinking about things in ways so it -wouldn't- be boring, making something about each lesson be a challenge to me personally. It was only in 11th grade that I decided school was wasting my time and I went to college instead, when I was way older. At 4 and 6 things were still magical.

Just wanted to give you the POV of someone who was labeled "gifted" but who is more realistic in understanding that doesn't really mean much at all.

[meemee]

graciegal - were you assessed or are you going off what you think of whether you were gifted or not?

Originally Posted by graciegal 

I mean no disrespect, but gifted is a term that is being seriously overused. I skipped kindergarten and 12th grade, went to college at 16, graduated when I was 19 with a science degree and two minors and I now have 3 Ph.Ds (all in hard sciences) and I'm 33 years old. I dont consider myself gifted. I was way smarter or maybe dedicated than other kids my age but gifted? I'm just saying that the term (and the things used to measure it) are suspect to me. So when someone labels your child as "gifted" it throws a kink into the realism about the situation. We all think our children are smart or gifted or advanced but the truth is that a very very small percent of the population is truly "gifted" above and beyond the rest of us. It's like winning the lottery, what are the chances? And you know, my school years were filled with boring stuff too, but I still enjoyed the process of it all and the events and such. The learning part of school is sometimes very small, so "not being able to pay attention because it's boring" also doesn't make sense to me. I remember  thinking about things in ways so it -wouldn't- be boring, making something about each lesson be a challenge to me personally. It was only in 11th grade that I decided school was wasting my time and I went to college instead, when I was way older. At 4 and 6 things were still magical.

Just wanted to give you the POV of someone who was labeled "gifted" but who is more realistic in understanding that doesn't really mean much at all.

[graciegal]

No assessment, just what everyone else said about me.
 

[flightgoddess]

I didn't see it brought up yet, but have you considered dietary changes? Like no fake dyes? A British study linked reactions to food dyes to add like behaviors. Or perhaps wheat or gluten? Those with celiac or gluten intolerance don't always have classic g-i symptoms. They can be  anything from chronic fatigue, thyroid issues, malabsorbtion, foggyness...maybe even with the brain and sight too. My 4 yo nephew was struggling with fine motor skills crossing his midline (doing things on the left, but with the right hand and vice versa. He couldn't cross his t's for example) Therapy helped some, but he made enormous progress once he went gluten free.

I second finding another opthomologist opinion. Is it the acual sight in the eyes, like something glasses will help, or is it the fine motor muscles by the eye, something eye patches or exercises might help?

[EmbraceLife]

Hi.  I believe you need to trust your heart.  If you feel there's a gift, I have heard it is possible for ADHD to be misdiagnosed.  I have a friend whose child was diagnosed with ADHD and it ended up being a Sensory Processing Disorder and after the proprioception and vestibular stimulation needs were met, this child excelled in school and is now in college studying nuclear engineering.   In the early years, the child was labeled as developmentally delayed and was always considered a trouble maker in the early years of public education.  I guess that's why I just say ... trust you heart.  You know your children best. 

Good luck!

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by EmbraceLife 

I have heard it is possible for ADHD to be misdiagnosed.   ... trust you heart.  You know your children best. 

Good luck!

ADHD is most often a scam; another ploy to get your kid on coke like drugs.

There is no OBJECTIVE diagnosis; it is totally SUBJECTIVE.

"A new study reveals that healthy kids who take Ritalin have a whopping 500 percent greater risk of sudden death. These aren’t kids with pre-existing heart conditions. The results would have been worse if they were included. The same study that found Ritalin stunts kids’ growth also found that it has no beneficial effect on behavior over a three-year period.”    Doctor Al Sears MD, Note most schools receive about 1000 dollars/year for each student they can snare into the drug program

“Artificial food colors are now set to be removed from hundreds of products in the UK because the results of a study showing them to do as much damage to children's brains as lead in gasoline, resulting in a significant reduction in IQ.” The Independent UK April 5 2008

"More and more, the concept of ADD as a disorder is being qualified by inclusion of a string of positive qualities -- such as creativity, high intelligence, ability to do many things at once, an aptitude for small business entrepreneurship, and a powerful intuitive sense."  Susan Burgess, Think Fast! The ADD Experience

“I live in a small middle class neighborhood with twenty-three houses. I recently counted thirty children who live in this community who are on medication for ADHD. One week ago my oldest son, who is gifted but dyslexic, had twelve neighborhood friends over for dinner. As I looked around the table, all of these children but one had dilated pupils. After two-and-one-half months of taking vitamin A and D in cod liver oil, my son announced, "I can read now! The letters don’t jump around on the page anymore!" He is able to focus and his handwriting has improved dramatically. In his high school for college-bound dyslexic students, 68 of 70 teenagers report seeing headlights with starbursts, a symptom of congenital stationary nightblindness.” Mary Megson, MD

“About 81% of the children in the US are believed to be not getting the RDI of zinc!” CDC

“Sugar can cause hyperactivity, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and crankiness in children.” Goldman J et al

Often kids exhibiting ADHD like behavior only have a problem with their diet.

[Triniity]

Thank you all for your replies.

I mean no disrespect, but gifted is a term that is being seriously overused.

Yeah, right, I know. I use "giftedness" as it is used professionally, as in "IQ above the 98th centile" And I do disagree about it's like winning the lottery. I am (or was ) gifted, as in the above definition, my DH was probably gifted (as in the above definition). So it's more like genetics, isn't it?

And I am not trying to get a definition for the kids, but to help them. They have a letter for the paediatrician stating: ADHD, please start Ritalin (for DD) plus stating in the letter something like "IQ above 98th centile" (DS) DD stating IQ reading not applicable due to visuell integration problems (this is trying to translate this letter - which is a bit difficult for me) but considered to be above 98th centile.

I am not saying that means that they will excel in life. This is my exact problem. I want to help them. I just don't really know at which angle I should start. I seriously do not consider Ritalin, I don't want to give Ritalin to a developing brain just now. DD will be started in a school program for gifted children and her OT is going to work with school. We'll see how that goes.

The OT says it doesn't really matter which of the both is causing the problems. If the techniques help, fine.

I don't want to under - or overschedule them, esp. DD, DS is still quiet young. She does behave better if she has a scheduled day though. Again something that does work for both problems.

I know how I felt as a gifted child. It was not nice. I didn't even be an average student in middleschool, I was quite an underachiever until the shortly before the senior high school. I was seriously depressed and had severe behavioural problems. I don't want my children follow this path. I don't want them to feel like aliens.

Got to go. Will write more soon.

[lovestolearn]

Worth looking at their gut health, diet, Vitamin D level, etc.  It's made a world of difference for my clients' children.

Making sure they have good Omega 3 levels for proper neurotransmitter development is important (fatty fish is a great source.)

Sufficient Vitamin D is needed for good hormone balance & immune system health.

Some children benefit from going gluten-free/low sugar.

The gut/brain connection is huge and should not be overlooked.

[graciegal]

Originally Posted by lovestolearn 
Some children benefit from going gluten-free/low sugar.

MOST children benefit from this :)

And dont forget starch is chains and chains of glucose molecules that we enzymatically break down with ease, so starches are the same as sugars.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by pumpkingirl71 

To me, a "globally gifted" child would not get bored and act out.  They would be able to process what was going on around them and do just fine.  But most super high IQ kids are not in that boat.  Emotionally and socially, they are just not as advanced.  I don't think it is really boredom.  More like the inability to process.

A globally gifted child is a human being who might very well get bored and act out in an environment that was unsuitable, particularly when young.  Temperament is a huge variable.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by graciegal 

I mean no disrespect, but gifted is a term that is being seriously overused. I skipped kindergarten and 12th grade, went to college at 16, graduated when I was 19 with a science degree and two minors and I now have 3 Ph.Ds (all in hard sciences) and I'm 33 years old. I dont consider myself gifted. I was way smarter or maybe dedicated than other kids my age but gifted? I'm just saying that the term (and the things used to measure it) are suspect to me. So when someone labels your child as "gifted" it throws a kink into the realism about the situation. We all think our children are smart or gifted or advanced but the truth is that a very very small percent of the population is truly "gifted" above and beyond the rest of us. It's like winning the lottery, what are the chances? And you know, my school years were filled with boring stuff too, but I still enjoyed the process of it all and the events and such. The learning part of school is sometimes very small, so "not being able to pay attention because it's boring" also doesn't make sense to me. I remember  thinking about things in ways so it -wouldn't- be boring, making something about each lesson be a challenge to me personally. It was only in 11th grade that I decided school was wasting my time and I went to college instead, when I was way older. At 4 and 6 things were still magical.

Just wanted to give you the POV of someone who was labeled "gifted" but who is more realistic in understanding that doesn't really mean much at all.

It's also a small percentage who are going to skip two grades and finish that many advanced degrees.  :)

I wonder if, in addition to high intelligence, you also possess a great work ethic along with balanced working memory and processing speed.  IME, people with solid WM and PS think lots of things aren't a big deal because they really aren't for them.  Being out of balance with this (high quantitative reasoning/verbal ability and low WM/PS) makes for a kid that's like a ferrari with no wheels  - school is tough for these kids.  The school system has also changed a lot in the last couple of decades.  My children's experience is very different from mine -  I had a fine time, they're having a horrible time.  Some of that is that the environment is just different, and also that I have a more balanced profile and I'm just not as sensitive as they are (and believe me, for all of our sakes, I wish my kids could be less sensitive).

[joensally]

OP, the way this thread has gone is an example of the rabbit hole you now find yourself in :).

A lot of the diagnostic process is subjective and fluid, and there's a whole lot of ideas about how to re-mediate, many of which are costly and/or onerous.  

With kids as young as yours, I'd re-frame the whole thing to avoid pathologizing.  Labels in school are a double-edged sword - sometimes they yield greater understanding, and sometimes it means the child is always the problem.  My re-frame would be "my daughter is very bright and has some executive functioning challenges that we're working on." 

OT is great.  Ask the OT for a sensory diet that meets your child's needs so that you can be working on building her self-regulation skills and where possible make her environment work better for her.  The Out of Sync Child Has Fun has great activities you can do at home for free.

Ask your eye person if they've studied developmental optometry, as it's a specialization in North America and a burgeoning industry, but many eye doctors have the training and can give you exercises at home if that helps with your daughters's particular condition.  This is an interesting study that points out that ADHD-type behaviours can have other causes: http://www.visionhelp.com/vh_add_05.html.  We did not do vision therapy despite having a diagnosis that would suggest it.  It was too costly, we did some home exercises, and DS outgrew it (yay!).

Meds are also a double-edged sword, because you end up trading one set of issues for another set of issues.  I would work on developing executive functioning skills (ADHD is just a catch-all diagnosis of various EF deficits), work on making the environment work better for her, and provide direct, explicit coaching.  Kids with attentional, sensory and processing difficulties are often overwhelmed when out in the world and miss subtleties - be really explicit about what is expected (and expected is good language - it's expected that you leave a foot between yourself and another, and unexpected that you'd be that close to someone's face while talking with them).  So, coach before going into a situation ("when the teacher asks x, remember that she's expecting y"), and de-brief afterwards ("I noticed that Bobby looked down and away when you were telling him about steam engines, I think maybe he was interested in talking about something else.").

[graciegal]

Originally Posted by joensally 

OP, the way this thread has gone is an example of the rabbit hole you now find yourself in :).

A lot of the diagnostic process is subjective and fluid, and there's a whole lot of ideas about how to re-mediate, many of which are costly and/or onerous.  

With kids as young as yours, I'd re-frame the whole thing to avoid pathologizing.  Labels in school are a double-edged sword - sometimes they yield greater understanding, and sometimes it means the child is always the problem.  My re-frame would be "my daughter is very bright and has some executive functioning challenges that we're working on." 

OT is great.  Ask the OT for a sensory diet that meets your child's needs so that you can be working on building her self-regulation skills and where possible make her environment work better for her.  The Out of Sync Child Has Fun has great activities you can do at home for free.

Ask your eye person if they've studied developmental optometry, as it's a specialization in North America and a burgeoning industry, but many eye doctors have the training and can give you exercises at home if that helps with your daughters's particular condition.  This is an interesting study that points out that ADHD-type behaviours can have other causes: http://www.visionhelp.com/vh_add_05.html.  We did not do vision therapy despite having a diagnosis that would suggest it.  It was too costly, we did some home exercises, and DS outgrew it (yay!).

Meds are also a double-edged sword, because you end up trading one set of issues for another set of issues.  I would work on developing executive functioning skills (ADHD is just a catch-all diagnosis of various EF deficits), work on making the environment work better for her, and provide direct, explicit coaching.  Kids with attentional, sensory and processing difficulties are often overwhelmed when out in the world and miss subtleties - be really explicit about what is expected (and expected is good language - it's expected that you leave a foot between yourself and another, and unexpected that you'd be that close to someone's face while talking with them).  So, coach before going into a situation ("when the teacher asks x, remember that she's expecting y"), and de-brief afterwards ("I noticed that Bobby looked down and away when you were telling him about steam engines, I think maybe he was interested in talking about something else.").

I think this is very well said.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by graciegal 

I mean no disrespect, but gifted is a term that is being seriously overused. I skipped kindergarten and 12th grade, went to college at 16, graduated when I was 19 with a science degree and two minors and I now have 3 Ph.Ds (all in hard sciences) and I'm 33 years old. I dont consider myself gifted. I was way smarter or maybe dedicated than other kids my age but gifted? I'm just saying that the term (and the things used to measure it) are suspect to me. So when someone labels your child as "gifted" it throws a kink into the realism about the situation. We all think our children are smart or gifted or advanced but the truth is that a very very small percent of the population is truly "gifted" above and beyond the rest of us. It's like winning the lottery, what are the chances? And you know, my school years were filled with boring stuff too, but I still enjoyed the process of it all and the events and such. The learning part of school is sometimes very small, so "not being able to pay attention because it's boring" also doesn't make sense to me. I remember  thinking about things in ways so it -wouldn't- be boring, making something about each lesson be a challenge to me personally. It was only in 11th grade that I decided school was wasting my time and I went to college instead, when I was way older. At 4 and 6 things were still magical.

Just wanted to give you the POV of someone who was labeled "gifted" but who is more realistic in understanding that doesn't really mean much at all.

  Call it what you want.  But some of our children just don't fit in the current one-size-fits-all educational system.   

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by A&A 

  Call it what you want.  But some of our children just don't fit in the current one-size-fits-all educational system.   

Government "schools" are most often government propaganda camps.  If you can manage it all please select another option.

Reading, writing and arithmetic and ESPECIALLY critical thinking, are often deliberately left  under taught and in their place we get political correctness and one world government pap.

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."
Vladimir Lenin

 

[graciegal]

I went to public school my entire life, moved around a lot and was in some pretty "low quality" systems, too. I turned out just fine. If your kid is truly gifted or smart or whatever, they will make school what it needs to be and then fill in the rest.
 

[A&A]

Originally Posted by graciegal 

I went to public school my entire life, moved around a lot and was in some pretty "low quality" systems, too. I turned out just fine. If your kid is truly gifted or smart or whatever, they will make school what it needs to be and then fill in the rest.
 

You skipped grades.  That, in and of itself, is an educational intervention.  (You didn't just make yourself sit through each school year as it came to you.)   So it's ironic you took advantage of a certain intervention but are seeming to state that others shouldn't find interventions/ different solutions for their children.  

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

Government "schools" are most often government propaganda camps.  If you can manage it all please select another option.

Reading, writing and arithmetic and ESPECIALLY critical thinking, are often deliberately left  under taught and in their place we get political correctness and one world government pap.

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."
Vladimir Lenin

 

There are amazing public schools, teachers, and programs, and there are other not-so-amazing ones.  (Even in the same geographical area.)  My kids have encountered both.  

[Triniity]

I turned out just fine.

That is truly good for you! I didn't though. I nearly died because of severe depression, eating disorders and self harming behaviour. it was neither nice nor beautiful. and took years of intense therapy to turn out relatively fine. as i said, i don't want my kids to suffer that much. i was always too much for everybody to handle. teachers told me that i ruined the grades for everybody around me, since i managed to do a couple of things beside lessons, including talking to my neighbours.