Birth is NOT normal

[trimommy2009]

WHAT??  Ok, a little background.  I've always felt that birth is a normal and natural thing.  God and Mother Nature designed us perfectly for the task at hand.  I attempted a natural Birth Center birth with my first son which ended up in a c-section, my second son was born at home 4 months ago (one of these days I might have time to actually post my birth stories) and it was the most amazing experiance EVER.  I whole heartedly advocate natural birth for soooo many reasons.  That being said I also believe every woman has the right to choose the birth that will make them most comfortable, therefore I try to educate those I love without preaching and support them in whatever decision they make.  I truly believe the best and safest birth will happen where the mom feels the most secure and safe.  For some that is a hospital and for some that is at home.  

So on to the story...I was talking with one of my very best friends about her 1st pregnancy and upcoming birth.  She is currently 32 weeks pregnant and planning an blissful, "pain-free" epidural hospital birth.  This always surprised me about her as her mother had all three of her kids naturally and her older sister had 4 natural births, two of them at home where my friend was present.  Anyways, she was telling me about watching The Baby Story (which I think should probably be banned for all pregnant women), I jokingly told her to stop watching that and to stop reading horrible blogs about all the things that can go wrong in birth (yikes).  I suggested that, even though she is planning a hospital birth that perhaps she watch some natural births on Youtube to get the idea in her head that birth is natural and normal, that things proceed normally without problems (I'm by no means saying things don't go wrong, just that they don't deviate as ofter as shows and blogs like that make women believe).  She actually said to me...birth is not natural.  WHAT????  I asked her to explain and she said that it is SOOO painful it isn't normal.  She said when her OB asked what kind of birth she wanted, her OB was thrilled when she stated an epidural because she see's too many things go wrong with natural births.  

When did this happen??  When did women stop believing in their god-given super power of giving birth naturally and NORMALLY!!  It's happening even to women who have attended natural home births.  Geez 'normal' women don't have a chance of believing in themselves!!!  

[tonttu]

Looks like she is getting herself ready to happily fall into the " let´s do every intervention possible and say yes to everything doctor says " trap . 

You should ask her " if birth is not natural , how come mankind has survived for as long as they have ?"

[rs11]

Yes, birth is not natural. We've only been doing it without the help of hospitals for 150,000 years.

/sarcasm off.

Seriously, my best idea is that she's scared. It's her first, after all, and she knows about everything that can go wrong. I'm *terrified* at the thought of giving birth, and I'm not even pregnant yet.

[tonttu]

And then to end up in hospital , with every possible thing gong wrong and doctor throwing one intervention at her after another is really a recipe for disaster .

Many times , those are the type of women , that completely loose faith in their body´s ability  

[erigeron]

To play devils advocate for a minute, why does it matter to you? It's her birth. You can say your piece about your philosophy of birth, then let it go. I know women who've birthed with epidurals and chose epidurals for their subsequent babies and feel fine about their decision. Even if they come away from it thinking "man, I'm glad the docs were there to help me with an epidural and XYZ", at the end of the day if they feel good about the decision and they and their baby are all right, they're entitled to their own feelings about their birth just like you are entitled to your own feelings about yours.

While birth is natural, many things that are natural aren't safe and can be painful/go wrong. Enough women and babies survived childbirth to perpetuate the species, but that doesn't mean there weren't a number of losses that we probably wouldn't consider acceptable.

I think MOST women do get epidurals (maybe not on MDC, but most women in the general population) and seem to like them.

[trimommy2009]

You're right, of course. It is her birth and it shouldn't matter to me.  I guess I'm just sad to see my friend, who is so strong and smart is so many areas of her life fail to see that same strength in her own body.  I need to stay on the right side of the educational support vs preach line.  

Thanks for the mental check, I can be a better friend to her by just supporting her. 

[StudyingStones]

I'd like to chime in on this, if I may.

When I was pregnant with DS (my first pregnancy), I was TERRIFIED of birth.  I had no idea what I was in for, but I imagined horrible, horrific pain that no person should want to go through.  When I made my birth plan, the first thing I asked for was an epidural "as soon as possible". 

Looking back, I don't regret my decision.  I was very scared of the pain, and having an epidural and being in the hospital was the most comfortable thing to me.  In hindsight, I wish I had read the books that I have read now, and believed in myself and my body to give birth naturally (I had a short 6 hour labor and only 20 minutes of pushing!)  This time around I am planning a homebirth with a midwife (that is WHEN we get pregnant), but it would not have been the right thing for me the first time around.

Maybe your friend is experiencing some of the pain that I and a lot of first-time mothers face.. the fear of the unknown is a powerful thing, and fear of pain is even more powerful.  Try to give her a break, and let her learn from her own experience. Who are you to say what is right or wrong for her birth experience? (sorry, that wasn't meant to sound snarky).  I now consider myself truly for homebirth, but I would never advocate that it is right for everyone, and first time mommas do sometimes experience fear as to what birth will be like. 

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by trimommy2009 

You're right, of course. It is her birth and it shouldn't matter to me.  I guess I'm just sad to see my friend, who is so strong and smart is so many areas of her life fail to see that same strength in her own body.  I need to stay on the right side of the educational support vs preach line.  

Thanks for the mental check, I can be a better friend to her by just supporting her. 

Makes sense. I think also you could be helpful by discussing ways to deal with the pain in a way that meets her where she is--even if she does want an epidural, there will probably be time laboring at home, in the car, while waiting for anesthesia, etc. that having some coping techniques up her sleeve could help her even if she does plan on the epidural.

[tropicana]

Originally Posted by rs11 

Yes, birth is not natural. We've only been doing it without the help of hospitals for 150,000 years.

/sarcasm off.

Seriously, my best idea is that she's scared. It's her first, after all, and she knows about everything that can go wrong. I'm *terrified* at the thought of giving birth, and I'm not even pregnant yet.

crashing.

i too was terrified at the thought of giving birth. 

i wasn't sure i wanted a natural birth.

i wound up getting one, and the experience did change me.

my very first thought after birthing my daughter (in a hospital with no pain relief) was: "i could do that again."

three years later, i did do it again, gave birth to my son (also in a hospital with no pain relief -- this time, planned that way.)

[SympatheticDad]

Originally Posted by trimommy2009 

You're right, of course. It is her birth and it shouldn't matter to me.  I guess I'm just sad to see my friend, who is so strong and smart is so many areas of her life fail to see that same strength in her own body.  I need to stay on the right side of the educational support vs preach line.  

A husband and father here dropping in to opine.  I totally don't get this attitude - your friend is strong and smart and getting pain relief doesn't in any way diminish that.  To put this in perspective, if one of my male co-workers said to me "I'm getting a root canal tomorrow, and I've decided to get novocaine and whatever other pain relief is available" I certainly wouldn't think to myself "Pfffft, what a wimp and a loser that guy is.  If he was a real man he'd just tough it out.  I'm sad for him because he's not living up to his Dental Warrior potential."

If you don't want or need pain relief - hey, that's great!  But there are no merit badges handed out for being more or less 'natural' than the next guy (or gal!).  I think instead of feeling sad for your friend, you should address the real issue and work on not feeling sad for her - and, instead, support her birthing choices 100%.

Birth is a profound experience - even as a bystander I can see that.  But I have no problem saying with confidence that in the long run, how we come into the world is of miniscule importance compared to how our lives are lived afterwards.  Your friend wants to maximize her chances of having a healthy baby, while minimizing the amount of pain and suffering she has to go through to get there, and she's decided medical pain relief is the way to go.  There is nothing shameful about avoiding suffering, or about using medicine to relieve that suffering, and I think you should seriously ask yourself why her wanting to ease her pain (sort of?) bothers you so much.  

[StudyingStones]

SympatheticDad,

I used to think this way too, and in fact I used almost the exact same example you just did for why women are silly to not accept pain management during labor.  My opinion has since changed (I now have a 5 year old).  I think maybe the OP's concerns (of course, I can't speak for her), are not that her friend is WRONG for choosing to have an epidural, but overall sadness that women don't have faith in their bodies to give birth naturally, and are so paralyzed by the fear that they opt for an epidural and hospital birth because that's the societal norm.

I am not judging here - that is exactly what I did with my son because I was TERRIFIED of the pain, and you are right, there is nothing shameful about that.  5 plus years later and lots of reading and research on natural labor, and I am going forward with different expectations of what labor/delivery will be like next time around, and I believe that will make all the differene in my next experience. 

I do agree with you that there are no merit badges for having natural childbirth (but maybe there should be!). I think what most women feel/are concerned about with epi's and hospital birth in general, is that there are so many unnecessary interventions that can take place, and that it can take away from the experience and the bonding that mom and babe share in those first initial moments.  I truly believe that had I not had a hospital, intervention filled birth, my son and I would have had a better start, and could have had a successful breastfeeding relationship. 

That is not to say that hospitals and pain management and other resources provided by hospitals aren't worthwhile - for some families, they are an absolute lifesaver, and I am so grateful to live in a country where women have the option of either a hospital or a home birth.   Just my two cents here.. I agree with the other PP's that OP should be less concerned with what her friend is choosing for her birth, as women need to be able to choose what feels safe and comfortable for themselves.

[Viola]

I'm just going to quietly delete my comments. :D

[MeepyCat]

This always surprised me about her as her mother had all three of her kids naturally and her older sister had 4 natural births, two of them at home where my friend was present.

It sounds like your friend is (for this culture, at least) unusually experienced with birth, given that she's a first-time mom herself.  She knows a lot, she's seen a lot, and, on that basis, she's made a decision for herself.

Watching other women give birth isn't going to assure all women of their god-given power to get through this experience unmedicated.  Different people are going to react differently - some will feel that the pain and loss of control are appalling, and they'd prefer to avoid them.  That's their choice to make.

[artekah]

Sympathetic Dad: Giving birth cannot be compared to having a root canal. Giving birth is a natural process that women's bodies were designed to do! Having a root canal, while necessary, is not something your body is designed to do.

The pain of injury and the pain of labor-in my experience, NOT the same thing at ALL. Labor will be MUCH more painful if you are fearful (speaking from experience here) as well as MUCH more painful if the natural process is tampered with by having strangers around, bright lights, no privacy, beeping machines, people talking to you, being jabbed with needles, not allowed to eat or drink, and forced to lie still on your back.

Birthing practices in hospitals are NOT evidence-based. Unnecessary interventions hurt babies and mothers immeasurably. I realize these are strong claims but what I'm saying is backed by research.

My problem with epidurals and all the rest is not that a woman is weak for choosing one. It's that they come with very real risks and decrease your chances of a good outcome. They should be taken seriously and should only be used as a last resort.

If women were educated about birth and their bodies, and supported by practitioners who also understand birth and give *evidence-based* care, epidurals would still be needed in some cases, but would certainly NOT be the default for birthing women.

I have friends whose labors were stalled from fear/exhaustion/whatever, and then progressed rapidly after they got an epidural. I have no doubt there are cases when epidurals are wonderful. I totally would get an epidural if I *needed* one for any reason.

But it bothers me a lot when I see women assuming everyone needs one. Natural birth really should be the default and pain relief should be used as a tool only when needed. From the time we are little girls in this culture, we are told, both with subtlety and implicitly, that giving birth will be the most horrifically painful thing a human can experience, that it's so bad you think you're going to die, etc. Let's just say this can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't underestimate the mind-body connection.

It's difficult to say this in a way that still respects women who have had that horrible scary-pain nightmare, but it doesn't have to be like that. I had 2 babies at home with zero interventions. I can't even describe what a wonderful empowering experience natural birth can be. It was not awful, scary, and the "pain" was not unbearable. Don't get me wrong, it was intense and memorable and at times not much fun. But it was also thrilling and filled me with pride while I was doing it. The thought of missing out on the true experience and all of the real feelings, through external interventions, is way more awful to me than anything I experienced during labor and birth. I'm not saying this to discount or deny other women's bad experiences. Just keep in mind, birth is always intense--but it isn't necessarily bad, painful, or any of that.

I wish more women could understand this! Statistically speaking, it would lead to better outcomes for everyone, a more gentle welcome to the world for babies, easier breastfeeding, quicker recoveries for women, less stress, and more feelings of self-worth if women's natural abilities were not constantly doubted and undermined by well-meaning but ignorant people!

/end rant
Edited by artekah - 8/16/12 at 11:44am

[WildDoula]

I think that's really what the OP is experiencing, the frustration that her friend cannot see "the light at the end of the tunnel." She cannot see the merit of natural birth, cannot see herself being strong enough, capable enough, etc. And that really does suck. We shouldn't be conditioned that way at all.

Is natural birth for everyone? No. But women should at least know that they CAN have an unmedicated birth. That they aren't broken and don't need to rely on doctors and hospitals to "fix" their "ailment." It seems that many people think childbirth and pain meds go hand in hand, when really it's not an integral part of the process.

[courtneymtx]

I really find it sad that you feel your friend isn't making a strong choice because it isn't the same as the choice you would make.  I am not trying to pass judgement here, but friendship is supposed to be mutual including respect of decisions.  I don't know you or your friend, but your post seems to indicate that she doesn't pass judgement on the decisions of others she loves (ie. attending a home birth, being a close friend to you through your births, etc.).  Sometimes it really is being the best friend you can be to not feel a need to educate or to judge, but to simply be loving and supportive showing that person you respect them and trust them knowing they will do what they feel is best according to them.  The fact that she stood up to you shows that she is plenty strong and has made a decision that she views as best to her without telling anyone else what they should do or how they should do it, nor condemning the choices of others.

When we judge our friends choices we often cause a barrier to be there which also disables us from supporting them when they need it most.  If you want to feed the friendship then agree to disagree in personal choice on this matter, but respect each other enough to listen, share, support and love.  If something should happen during her birth the last thing you want is her to not turn to you for support for fear of judgement.

Love more, judge less and realize that by virtue of it being "choice" opinions will vary.

[Adaline'sMama]

Her birth, her body, her decision.

Not everyone needs to have a natural childbirth to feel empowered and happy with themselves. Those of us who do often times dont present ourselves well and come off as holier than thou to our friends who arent choosing a NCB path. Some women don't like being disappointed, and would be very dis-empowered if they planned a natural childbirth and it didn't go the way they wanted it to. I think it's awesome to have a natural childbirth, but I wouldnt do much to try and convince a friend who is 32 weeks pregnant with her mind made up.

And, it's not natural for women to be in that much pain. Women shouldnt be strapped to a bed where they have no ability to control their pain by movement- that is not natural.

[Poogles0213]

Originally Posted by trimommy2009 

I guess I'm just sad to see my friend, who is so strong and smart is so many areas of her life fail to see that same strength in her own body.

Why is choosing not to feel pain the same as failing to see strength in one's body, though? My agonizing menstrual cramps are all natural, but I choose not to writhe in pain - I use painkillers. Does this mean I do not see the strength in my body? What's the difference?

Originally Posted by StudyingStones 

[...] not that her friend is WRONG for choosing to have an epidural, but overall sadness that women don't have faith in their bodies to give birth naturally, and are so paralyzed by the fear that they opt for an epidural and hospital birth because that's the societal norm.

[...] I think what most women feel/are concerned about with epi's and hospital birth in general, is that there are so many unnecessary interventions that can take place, and that it can take away from the experience and the bonding that mom and babe share in those first initial moments. 

Why assume that women who choose an epidural "don't have faith in their bodies" or "are so paralyzed" by fear, though? Maybe they just choose not to feel pain during this process - what's wrong with that?

Originally Posted by artekah 

My problem with epidurals and all the rest is not that a woman is weak for choosing one. It's that they come with very real risks and decrease your chances of a good outcome. They should be taken seriously and should only be used as a last resort.
If women were educated about birth and their bodies, and supported by practitioners who also understand birth and give *evidence-based* care, epidurals would still be needed in some cases, but would certainly NOT be the default for birthing women.

[...] Natural birth really should be the default and pain relief should be used as a tool only when needed.
[...] The thought of missing out on the true experience and all of the real feelings, through external interventions, is way more awful to me than anything I experienced during labor and birth.

How do you define "good outcome"? I define it as "healthy baby, healthy mom" - in that order. How does an epidural decrease safety?

Also, when an epidural should be used should be up to the individual woman - it is not up to you or anyone else to decide if the woman in now in the land of "last resort" and "needs" an epi. It is pain relief. Pain relief should be available to patients experiencing pain as they feel it is needed. Period.

Do you realize how insulting you sound when you imply that anyone who has used an epi (or other interventions) has missed "out on the true experience and all of the real feelings" of their child's birth?!

Originally Posted by WildDoula 

I think that's really what the OP is experiencing, the frustration that her friend cannot see "the light at the end of the tunnel." She cannot see the merit of natural birth, cannot see herself being strong enough, capable enough, etc. And that really does suck. We shouldn't be conditioned that way at all.

Is natural birth for everyone? No. But women should at least know that they CAN have an unmedicated birth. That they aren't broken and don't need to rely on doctors and hospitals to "fix" their "ailment." It seems that many people think childbirth and pain meds go hand in hand, when really it's not an integral part of the process.

What "light at the end of the tunnel"? What if she doesn't believe there is any merit to natural birth, for her? She's obviously been exposed to it, knows it's a viable option, and then rejected it. Why must her choice be subjected to all these assumptions that she just must not be strong enough, informed enough, courageous enough, or is too conditioned by societal norms??

[Alenushka]

First of all, if God and nature designed us perfectly, you would not have a c-section. Bodies are not perfectly designed. Nature designed our species with huge percentage of reproductive wastage in mind. I do not understand how you fail to see the irony of your own statement in the light of your own expirience.

If you did what nature intended, your baby would have died, maybe you as well, Or perhpas you would have survived with fistula like hundred thousand of women in Africa. humanity evolved because we used our brains to develop modern medicine. That is real gift from aboce.

Modern obstetrics decrease maternal and neonatal mortality by 90%. That is simple statistical fact. 

There is is not god or  nature given power. Birth is natural event but so is cancer. Natural does not mean good or sucessfull.

Secondly, your Friend body and birth are her own. Why you so invested in her experience emotionally is not clear to me . She does not want pain. She wants and epidural. It is her choice. We still live in the country where women have choice.

Perhaps you friend know something about her body that make her cautions. Perhpas she would rather start in the hospital than deal with transfer because that is what her womanly intuition is telling her.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 
Modern obstetrics decrease maternal and neonatal mortality by 90%. That is simple statistical fact. 

Source?  I'd like to read the facts for myself.

Sus