I just don't think I can do this :(

[singin'intherain]

I don't think I can handle my partner's son. We don't live together, but are planning to cohabitate next year. We are, however, neighbors. So I see enough of the kids everyday life to know what I'm getting myself and my kids into.

This is a prime example of what goes on with his kids: I went over there today, and his older two (10g and 8b) were fighting. Actually, the girl was screaming because the boy was holding her video camera and threatening to throw it over the fence. I did not get involved, but went inside. My partner told me that she had started wrestling with him (brother), and when he (dad) tried to make her stop, she refused. He told her to put something in the car, but instead she had continued playing with her brother. When her brother grabbed her video camera and ran out the door with it, she "bought into it" and chased after him. He says he told her to come in and let him deal with it. She finally got the camera from him, and came in- my partner lectured her about buying into his teasing, while his son ran off.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? The reality is, he can't control his son- there is absolutely nothing he can do to stop him from acting like that. So he goes after his daughter, because she is more accountable to him. His son does this stuff all the time- he loves pushing buttons, even terrorizing and physically hurting others for laughs. If he's mad he will destroy things, and pick fights with adults. He has very very little respect for the rights of others.

I could live with this if it were being dealt with. Kids can be pretty awful, but this child is flat out allowed to harass the other kids with no consequences. I cannot get my partner to see it my way- he says that's just the way he is, and if people would ignore it, he wouldn't do it. To me that's irrelevant, even if it were true. I asked him today- where is he going to learn that it's not ok to bully people?

I have four kids, and I'm feeling at this point that I can't make them live with this boy. He doesn't pick on my kids the way he picks on his siblings. But the level of conflict in their house reaches such a high pitch sometimes- I myself honestly don't think I can handle it.

I'm feeling so sad about this. :(

[swd12422]

Honestly, I know it's a long way off, but I'd wait til the kids were out of the house to move in together.

He doesn't think he's wrong, so he's not going to change a thing. All that's going to do is frustrate you and drive a wedge between you, either b/c you're going to resent him for not doing it "right," or b/c you're going to nag the daylights out of him about it and he'll resent you for that.

PLUS, you have your own kids to worry about. I can't see sending them into the lion's den and hoping they don't get eaten. This boy treats his sister this way and gets away with it; once you're in the household, you're "family," and your kids will be his siblings too, in a sense. Why should anyone expect him to treat them any differently?

I'd say, if you want to stay together, stay together in separate households til the kids are grown, then do what you want.

[singin'intherain]

I know, but I'm moving to another city next year, that's why we're planning to move in together. Otherwise we'd probably just stay the way we are.

It's complicated, too, by the fact that I'm the only thing like a mother his kids have, for the last three years. I could deal with this if there was some kind of consequence, or effort of some kind. How can I bring my kids into a situation where everyone has to put up with one of the kids' garbage all the time? I just don't know what to do.

[mowilli3]

Hon, follow your instinct. Don't move into that house. Your partner may not make himself accountable for his own actions if he doesn't make his son accountable. If you move in with him, you are going to learn how to set boundaries and protect yourself from people who do not accept responsibility. I've lived that lesson. I can't tell you what to do, wish I had learned the lesson earlier and left instead of  learning from pain and conflict later on and having to heal from a very chaotic situation, especially with kids that need my time and sanity.

[swd12422]

Originally Posted by singin'intherain 

I know, but I'm moving to another city next year, that's why we're planning to move in together. Otherwise we'd probably just stay the way we are.

It's complicated, too, by the fact that I'm the only thing like a mother his kids have, for the last three years. I could deal with this if there was some kind of consequence, or effort of some kind. How can I bring my kids into a situation where everyone has to put up with one of the kids' garbage all the time? I just don't know what to do.

1. Moving to a different city isn't a reason to move forward in the relationship when you otherwise wouldn't. The only reason to go to the "next step" in a relationship is b/c it feels right and is a healthy thing to do for ALL involved. Not just 'cause you want to right now, or you don't want to lose him. If you are still going to be together in a few years, you will, whether you're neighbors or not.

2. You are not responsible for mothering his kids. That's his responsibility. Just b/c he's not stepping up to the plate doesn't mean it's your job to. Your kids need to come first for you. His kids will always be first for him, so don't expect him to make your kids a priority. It just won't happen.

[singin'intherain]

Originally Posted by swd12422 


1. Moving to a different city isn't a reason to move forward in the relationship when you otherwise wouldn't. The only reason to go to the "next step" in a relationship is b/c it feels right and is a healthy thing to do for ALL involved. Not just 'cause you want to right now, or you don't want to lose him. If you are still going to be together in a few years, you will, whether you're neighbors or not.
2. You are not responsible for mothering his kids. That's his responsibility. Just b/c he's not stepping up to the plate doesn't mean it's your job to. Your kids need to come first for you. His kids will always be first for him, so don't expect him to make your kids a priority. It just won't happen.

You're right. I said we would just stay the way we are if I weren't planning to move, and it's because we kind of have the perfect setup right now. We can help each other and be together, without having to go through the huge job of really blending our families. I think that job would look overwhelming no matter what our specific kid-related issues. But in this case, we do have some major disagreements that aren't getting resolved. How is that going to look when we are all in the same space? Another big issue here is that we have a combined total of 7 kids. Those numbers alone are a lot to handle in one house, but with kids that fight a lot, and loudly? OMG!

His kids are 1000 times better behaved at my house. They respect me there, but I have a feeling once it's our house, their customary behavior with their dad will take over, because they act out wherever he's at.

The last part, about it not being my responsibility to parent his kids- it's not quite that simple. This is the step parent's paradox- you have the responsibility without the control. It's a hard role to navigate, because they depend on me, but I'll never have the same tools for parenting that I have with my own kids. And this situation is difficult, because I care about them, and don't want to abandon them. Their mother abandoned them three years ago. I'm going to be moving at least 2 hours away, for graduate school, so I won't have time to keep this family as a family, if I move without them.

Thanks for the input!

[Mummoth]

If you decide to go ahead and move/move in together, could you look for a similar set-up in your new city? Many of the big houses here actually have a  basement suite in them and I've seen ads on craigslist where they're specifically looking for an extended family to move in (it's a loophole around city by-laws, the landlord can't have two rental agreements on one house... they say 7 bedroom home with 3 bathrooms and 2 kitchens... and how the tenants choose to use it is their business) 

[singin'intherain]

Originally Posted by Mummoth 

If you decide to go ahead and move/move in together, could you look for a similar set-up in your new city? Many of the big houses here actually have a  basement suite in them and I've seen ads on craigslist where they're specifically looking for an extended family to move in (it's a loophole around city by-laws, the landlord can't have two rental agreements on one house... they say 7 bedroom home with 3 bathrooms and 2 kitchens... and how the tenants choose to use it is their business) 

Yes, ideally we would be able to rent two halves of a duplex or something. The main problem with this is cost. We live in subsidized housing- both students, which is going to be super hard to find in another location now anyway. And unfortunately, it won't be in a cheaper city. But that would probably work the best.

I find it a lot easier to have a hands off approach to dealing with this issue if it's not in my face. I have a really hard time telling myself I have to just let him raise his kids his own way (on this issue- I don't have any significant trouble with his style otherwise, though it is quite different from mine). I don't know that it's 100% control freakness, I just hate to see how unfair it is for the other kids, and feel the need to stand up for them (in a respectful way). I also worry about his eight year old a lot. Like I said, where is he going to learn it's not ok to bully people? I'm afraid it will be in jail or something.

[provocativa]

What about counseling? Try to find a marriage and family therapist, so that you can all go eventually.  You could probably find a way to get on the same page with this.
 

[singin'intherain]

Things are going much better! He's making a real effort to consistently follow through with discipline for all of his kids. They are the kind of kids who, for all their many virtues, have so little respect for adults that you can't work out agreements or expectations with them. If you want them to stop something, they will just say No, or even smirk and keep on with whatever it was. It's so frustrating. I think my dp just didn't know what to do about it before, and it's finally starting to sink in that he can and has to do something. Since it's summer, we are all here together a lot more than usual- he says he noticed that my kids have never spoken rudely to me the way his kids do, that they don't fight like his kids do. I think he's getting the idea that it doesn't have to be like that. Plus, he's picturing seven kids in one house, and realizing that there will have to be a high level of cooperation to make that work.

I would love to get counseling. The problem is access. We have Medicaid, and the available services are truly pathetic. My dp has been through several counselors, and he has (reasonably) determined that it's a waste of time. I know better, because I've had helpful counseling in the past, but we just can't afford to pay out of pocket for decent counseling.

[IntownDoula]

Originally Posted by singin'intherain 


You're right. I said we would just stay the way we are if I weren't planning to move, and it's because we kind of have the perfect setup right now. We can help each other and be together, without having to go through the huge job of really blending our families. I think that job would look overwhelming no matter what our specific kid-related issues. But in this case, we do have some major disagreements that aren't getting resolved. How is that going to look when we are all in the same space? Another big issue here is that we have a combined total of 7 kids. Those numbers alone are a lot to handle in one house, but with kids that fight a lot, and loudly? OMG!
His kids are 1000 times better behaved at my house. They respect me there, but I have a feeling once it's our house, their customary behavior with their dad will take over, because they act out wherever he's at.
The last part, about it not being my responsibility to parent his kids- it's not quite that simple. This is the step parent's paradox- you have the responsibility without the control. It's a hard role to navigate, because they depend on me, but I'll never have the same tools for parenting that I have with my own kids. And this situation is difficult, because I care about them, and don't want to abandon them. Their mother abandoned them three years ago. I'm going to be moving at least 2 hours away, for graduate school, so I won't have time to keep this family as a family, if I move without them.
Thanks for the input!

Girl, I love what you said about the step parent's paradox. My God, have I tried to put that into words so many times for people who don't "get" it! 

I want to just bring up something you may or may not have thought about: if this man moves his children 2 hours away from what they've known, and what they're comfortable with, it is probable that they will resent you because "you (and your AWESOME decision to attend graduate school!!!) are the reason they had to move" (when we all know on this forum that the reason they would move is their father's decision to move them, not your choosing to go to graduate school.) That's how kids tend to react to situations like that, and step-kids, especially, love to be able to look at a living, breathing creature and have a place to dump all the blame for the yucky feelings they're experiencing. I don't know if or how this might influence your feelings or decision, but I just want you to know, step-mothering is really freaking hard and you're doing something many women wouldn't even consider, and that's valuable in this world. 

[shagonarock]

You're right to be concerned about your kids... a lot of the time an indulgent parent will dismiss fighting as normal sibling rivalry or 'kids being kids', but the bullying can get pretty bad if one child learns they can get away with it. Especially if the other child gets blamed each time there's conflict. If you disagree on discipline, then that issue can also be a wedge between you.

Also I agree with you that it's not good that he minimises his sons behaviour and puts the responsibility onto his daughter. There's the possibility that 8 year old would be encouraged to continue or step up his harassment to get a reaction, whichever response daughter chooses there's no way to win in that situation for her.

I'd say trust your instincts, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to control his son if he's going to be around your kids. Whether he tries to discipline or not, I'd focus on keeping you all safe and respected, and that might mean not moving into the house until you don't feel uneasy about what might happen. :(