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8/12 Weekly Chat - Page 2

post #21 of 33

 

Also, MANY of these reported cases of WC have been in those that were FULLY vaccinated against WC:

"Washington state; for instance, has one of the highest vaccine exemption rates in the country, but CDC officials have said that most of the children who have come down with whooping cough were vaccinated."

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-current-whooping-cough-epidemic-could-mean-that-the-vaccine-is-not-working

 

"Nearly two out of three people diagnosed with whooping cough in San Diego County this year, were fully immunized."

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/sep/07/vaccinated-people-getting-whooping-cough-sd/

 

They may have already gone over the vaccine risks with you at your class but here is the package insert in case you haven't seen it. This line in particular always shocks me:

 

General Disorders and Administration Site Conditions: Fatigue, injection site 
induration, injection site reaction, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. 

 

 

 
 
This is a very personal choice and one that I can tell is weighing heavily on you. I think that I should have sent this to you in a private message but after I got done typing it all out it wouldn't let me cut and paste it into a message to you. 
Sorry to everyone for my long winded vaccine post...I just always want to make sure that mamas have as much info as they can when they make this decision (I have close friends whose children have serious, permanent vaccine injuries so it is a topic close to my heart). :-(

YES to this shared info. We should all feel comfortable sharing info--we don't have to be attached to every individuals personal decision, but sharing our truth and our research and our info can help others make more informed decisions themselves--either way.

Personally, I feel like it is VERY pertinent to understand that most of the cases of WC have occurred are being found in vaccinated populations and that vaccination doesn't = immunity from any disease. 

I have personally suffered from vaccine related injuries as a teenager and they are no joke. Often times they are very subtle and rob you of your health slowly and almost discretely until you connect the dots and by then you can not undo them. 

post #22 of 33

Yes, this vaccine thing is a such a personal issue! I appreciate everyone's information.

 

I had heard the bit about most cases in Washington being kids who were vaccinated. I asked the Naturopath about this last night. He hadn't heard that, but had some interesting information. He said that there was an outbreak in Oregon of Pertussis a few years ago and they looked at it very thoroughly and found that the vaccine was about 70-80% effective. Which he said is standard for most vaccines. So that is always a good thing to remember that vaccines are not 100%.

 

But he went on to say that saying most cases in an outbreak are in vaccinated children doesn't necessarily say anything. If the population is mostly vaccinated, you're still going to end up with mostly vaccinated kids getting the disease. Good point that I hadn't thought of. I guess Washington has a high unvaccinated rate, but not sure if that would explain anything.

 

But the main point is the vaccine is not 100%!

 

Ok, I didn't mean to hijack this thread, just share what's up for me!

 

I found a New in Box car seat on a local mama's list - the one I was going to buy and everything. She somehow got two and by the time she went to return it, it was past the return window. So I get a good deal on a new car seat. Going to go purchase it tonight! Even though I have all sorts of things at home for the baby, the car seat makes it seem so much more real! Well, that and the baby kicking me all the time :)

post #23 of 33
Loving the vaccination chats!
DH and I have made up our mind on a few, but really don't know enough to decide either way on most yet! I am going to borrow a book from some friends of mine - "what your doctor isn't telling you about vaccinations".. Or something like that.
We have decided no on vitamin K tho, and need to keep researching the others. So tricky!!! And so personal!!

Things here are getting good again. My headspace/emotions/spirituality was/is under threat and so I am working on that with lots of me time. Lots of reading, relaxation, CalmBirth and all Ina May books
post #24 of 33

lulu - I was going to say just what you did about the vaccination percentages/effectiveness.  Even if most people are vaccinated, a percentage of them are still going to contract the disease. 

 

Also agree with mamaharrison - so good for everyone to share info and not take anyone else's choices personally. 

post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by lulubikes View Post

But he went on to say that saying most cases in an outbreak are in vaccinated children doesn't necessarily say anything. If the population is mostly vaccinated, you're still going to end up with mostly vaccinated kids getting the disease. Good point that I hadn't thought of. I guess Washington has a high unvaccinated rate, but not sure if that would explain anything.

 

But the main point is the vaccine is not 100%!

 

I guess my only purpose in pointing it out was that you could potentially have all the ill effects of a vaccine (exposure to viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, acetone, traces of thimerosal, risk of adverse reaction etc.) and still acquire the virus/disease that you were trying to prevent to begin with....and that would just suck!!

It's a gamble we all have to take no matter which choice we make...having to make these kinds of choices is not one of the fun aspects of parenting. irked.gif 

post #26 of 33
Travelmumma, have you had a look at the AVN?
post #27 of 33

Oh yes, the fun of vaccination decisions!! We drive about an hour to see a selective/delayed/non-vax friendly pediatrician, and are very, very happy with our choice (except on those Friday afternoon "is this cough something we need to have checked out now?" kind of days)! Tropicana - I so agree, it is not one of the fun parts of parenting!

 

I have my first appt. with my new practice tmr, and to say I'm hoping it goes well may be an understatement! I really like my "old" practice, but 3 out of the 4 mv's have left, the birth center has closed and all mothers must give birth in the hospital, and it is nearly and hour and a half drive - time to change! My new practice seems to be very supportive of vbac's, and is about 35 minutes awya, so we shall see! I am in my 20th week, so am looking fwd to scheduling my u/s, too - we're hoping to be suprised with our baby's sex, but looking fwd to seeing him/her all safe and secure in there! 

post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicana74 View Post

I guess my only purpose in pointing it out was that you could potentially have all the ill effects of a vaccine (exposure to viruses, bacteria, aluminum, formaldehyde, acetone, traces of thimerosal, risk of adverse reaction etc.) and still acquire the virus/disease that you were trying to prevent to begin with....and that would just suck!!

It's a gamble we all have to take no matter which choice we make...having to make these kinds of choices is not one of the fun aspects of parenting. irked.gif 

Tropicana - I totally agree! It is such a hard decision!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mamabeakley View Post

My DH would be fine with no vaccinations at all.  I am more comfortable with waiting until they are weaned and then doing only those vaccines I feel 'oh, shit' about the diseases - which are DT, and polio.  Everything else we either skip or will wait until about age 12 since I feel 'oh, shit' ish about varicella, measles and mumps when caught as teens or adults, too.  Good luck making your decisions!  It is such a tough topic in our culture, and there's no one right answer for everybody.  For example, I'd probably make different choices if my kids were in daycare, or if one of us parents worked in a healthcare setting regularly.

Mamabeakley - FWIW, the naturopath at the class we took was recommending against polio vac because it has been eliminated in the US. He said if you travel or if it popped back up in the US, then to consider it. But he said it has been totally wiped out. In fact, it's almost wiped out internationally too. Just in a few countries, which I can't remember which ones now. I agree it is a scary disease, but hearing that information made me feel comfortable skipping it.

 

NewCTmama - how exciting to start with your new practice! I hope it goes well. We got an ultrasound too - even though we're waiting on the sex too. It was nice to see the baby in there all healthy!

post #29 of 33

HI everyone! Interesting conversation regarding vaccines - my oldest has had the most vacs (fully vaccinated until about 2 years old, then we stopped), and he is the least healthy of my 3 kids! My DSS is fully vaccinated (he was also 8 weeks premature, so different set of circumstances), and he is pretty healthy as well, BUT he is also on the autism spectrum. Hmmmm..... So many factors to consider with these choices. DS2 has only had a tetanus shot (with his first set of stitches) and DS3 has had nothing. Oh, and DP's kids, all fully vaxed, are the ones who keep bringing all the icky flus & other germs in here all the time, especially the 2 year old who is in daycare. I'll be sticking with my decision to not vax until we get to international travel ;)

 

I've had another couple of marathon days - DS2 is in the middle of a HUGE soccer tournament, his first at competitive level - and today I feel like I've been run over by a truck. So other than getting the car washed & getting a pedicure today, the only thing I will be doing will be taking a nap before today's soccer game. I'm leaving for NM tomorrow for a wedding & reunion with my doctoral friends, so I'll be offline for a couple of days.

 

I have decided Baby is ADHD ;) S/he is the most active of all of my little ones, for sure - CONSTANT wriggling and kicking, which is so reassuring but SO exhausting at 3am, lol. DP said I should reconsider my 'one drink a week rule' and have a glass of wine before bed every night to get baby to sleep - he was totally kidding, of course, but last night at 4am it was quite tempting!

 

NewCt - good luck with your new practice! travelmumma, glad you are taking care of yourself. Everyone - lots of love!

post #30 of 33

It's been a while since I participated in the weekly chat (though I think I read nearly all of last week's--just didn't have anything to say, lol). 

 

In my reading about pertussis in particular, the vaccination of mom does nothing to confer any antibodies to baby via breastmilk--totally different from a natural antibody production/transfer. It's because our bodies normally encounter pathogens via mucous membranes, and the immune response to those pathogens sets off a chain reaction, one of which is to produce antibodies for baby via breastmilk. When a pathogen is introduced via innoculation (directly into the bloodstream), the only part of those chain reactions that takes place is that our blood alone produces antibodies. Nothing tells the rest of the body to go into immune mode, so there are no breastmilk-transferred antibodies, despite mom's innoculation. The push for moms to get the vax is part of what tropicana cited as "coccooning." There is also growing evidence that the pertussis strains of today is vastly different (evolved) from that which is used in the vaccinations, and that is part of why pertussis vaccinations have had decreasing success in keeping the illness at bay in susceptible populations.

 

I'm considering getting my titer run for pertussis--a couple of people in our circles had it recently (unbeknownst until after they could do anything about it), so there's a chance I may have been exposed. I'm kind of hoping I was, so that I have active antibodies come this winter. Pertussis antibodies don't stick around for long, partly because it is a bacterium, rather than a virus, and our bodies simply don't keep producing antibodies for every little bacterial pathogen to which we may be exposed. Regardless of that titer result, I'm 99% certain we're still not getting the vax for babe--we'll do our own version of "coccooning" and just hibernate as much as possible, and become total handwashing/sanitizing junkies this winter, lol. While we don't vax currently, I am open-minded and do my homework; I'm pretty certain my older DS will get a couple in the next year or two, simply because the kid makes every.damn.thing he does into a contact sport, blood and all. eyesroll.gif ...but I digress... I've been researching for 8 years, and I still struggle with some of the decisions! If we win the lottery and get to travel farther than the contiguous US, then (like Segolily) we'll get the appropriate shots and hope they work and all. 

 

hola.gif Hello to everyone up-thread there! :)

 

sego--safe travels and have fun. Sorry you're so tired; hopefully your NM trip will rejuvenate you.

 

newCtmama--good luck tomorrow. I hope your new practitioners are all that and a bag of chips! (and that you get your anatomy scan very soon so you can have that reassurance)

 

travelmumma--sending you some calm to help get you through this stressful period. 

 

mamabeakley--you're in the home stretch now. ;) My DH was just gone for 3 days, and I totally feel how you described the expectations (plus my own expectations; I'm just not used to not having any down time!) is spot on.

 

Of course, my DH is also in the middle or Ramadan, so even when he's *here,* right now, his blood sugar is low, or he's napping so he can eat at night, so has been more or less absent even when he wasn't gone for weeks now. I'm pretty much done with it at this point. I can't freaking wait until he's finished. Which will be 2 weeks now since he'll add on the days he was traveling (and therefore not fasting) to the end of the Eid which ends Ramadan. So he's getting dangerously close to my declared back to school date when I'll need to be refreshed, recharged, and not dealing all by myself with the kids' meltdowns.

 

But I'm trying to look on the bright side of things, and right now, one of those things is that HE OWES ME. mwahahahahaha! Another is that I am just about back to my BFP weight, which is great. I don't mean the gain--I mean the lack of an additional 20lbs on top of that by this point for me. I gained 60, then 50 lbs each of my 1st two pregnancies, so was already not feeling like myself at the halfway point with them. So yay for not eating fast food for every meal of the day (nevermind I *can't* eat it anymore because of known food intolerances) and staying moderately healthy. I still need to exercise, and now that it's not dangerously hot for a spell, I think my boys and I will go on a hike this weekend. Oh, and a friend gave me a bunch of baby clothes today--I took what would work (and wasn't a sickening pepto bismol shade of pink) and am passing on the rest to a couple more mamas. I love the generosity of my local AP group!

post #31 of 33

So strange atm.  Hungry all the time, tired and emotional.  It's like the first tri all over again.

post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhklh View Post

So strange atm.  Hungry all the time, tired and emotional.  It's like the first tri all over again.

Hugs Mumma!! I have been feeling crazy hormonal too. Yesterday I got myself into a big huge cry sesh. The kind where you can't catch your breathe and everything just seems so tragic! All because DH asked me what I thought of him doing a short training course.....
Constant eating and lots of rest and meditation are really really helping tho!

Who knew I would turn into a meditator? Golly this pregnancy has bought out the hippy in me! Lol although DH says I have always been like this but now I am listening to myself!
post #33 of 33

nhklh & travelmumma - Count me in for a little more emotional than usual : ) That may have been the relief of having a good appt. with my new practice yesterday, though! Met with a mw who is very supportive of vbac's, and it sounds like the practice is as a whole as well, so that's great news! our local hospital is - literally - 1.25 miles away, but is not known for being supportive of vbac's, so I'm hoping that this new situation works out!

 

Interestingly, I know that my uterus is measuring "high," but according to the mw, I'm measuring somehwere around 27 weeks (and am just barely 22)... she asked if I was certain that there's only one in there... we had an 8 week dating ultrasound, and my previous mw listened to the baby's hb at 12 and 16 weeks, so yes, but.... ! She listened to the bay's hb on both sides of my body, and it was 143 both times, so it's likely I'm just measuring ahead, but it adds a bit of excitement to our u/s appt. comign up on Tuesday :)

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