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Breastfeeding Support - Page 6

post #101 of 242

NewMumJoy - I had a plugged duct that I really struggled to clear in the first few weeks. One thing that I think really helped was positioning the baby so that his chin was over the duct (or lined up with it). This was awkward because the plug was on the top of the breast, at an 11 o'clock position! I ended up sidelaying but with the baby upside down so I had my face in his diaper :) After a few sessions like that, the duct was much better.


LilyTiger - If you're worried about the green poop, have you looked up foremilk/hindmilk imbalance? If it's frothy, that might be it. If it looks normal seedy, just green, it might be nothing. Armie has had a few green diapers too, and no other issues.


AFM, I wish I could get this leaking under control! It's outrageous. If I hear him cry, I soak through the pad, the bra and the shirt very quickly. Or the side that isn't nursing soaks through. Or I just randomly drip/squirt in between getting out of the shower and getting dressed... etc. I also am still dealing with his shallow latch, but I think that's getting better.

post #102 of 242
I have the same issue with leaking excessively all the time, I've learned to push the nipple straight in until the initial letdown is over.
Also using lilypadz instead of cloth or disposable pads helps a lot because it uses the same concept.

Just be sure to clean them frequently to avoid thrush.
post #103 of 242
Thread Starter 

Lily, to clarify we are thrilled with this weight gain. I am so crazy I thought I might be told he hadn't gained enough. This is all leftover anxiety from his initial weight loss/jaundice issue.


Sally, I have heard that about breastfed babies, it will be interesting to see how it goes. Did your daughter's growth slow after the first few months?


Lyle is still having fussy/colicky nights. We had four in a row, then one good night, and then last night again. We've tried gripe water with no success (although he likes it, Mommy's Bliss brand seems to be just ginger, fennel and sugar. ) Our ped. recommended trying probiotics. (Biogaia drops, holy expensive, carried at Walgreens) I have been taking probiotics and I asked him how much would transfer to the milk and he said none (a little too quickly, I don't think he totally knew) Curious. Colic is weird, it's not a real thing. I am not sure how much actually tummy discomfort he is in. hm.


Also, his nursing patterns have started to alter a lot. He's been feeding only like 4-7 minutes a side and when he's done he starts to fuss instead of falling asleep or seeming comforted. This sucks! I hope it resolves soon. I hate that nursing isn't soothing him, but at least he's feeding through his fussy times, a few times he was too freaked to do that. Also, despite his huge weight gain, I still worry about him not getting enough. I have heard babies get more efficient at milk transfer. Is it possible he's gotten better already? He used to go more like 10-15 per side.

post #104 of 242

Ah, Boots.  I misread your last post.  Awesomeness!


CCoello, I've looked up the foremilk/hindmilk issue.  Her poop isn't frothy, just spinach green and seedy.  I've been block feeding just in case, allowing her to empty an entire breast each feeding, but that hasn't affected the poop color, so my doc told me not to worry.  I'm hoping she's gained plenty of weight since last appointment. 


In other news, we either have a latch issue or thrush.  Piper cluster fed this afternoon and spit up a TON throughout the afternoon, which was really frustrating.  By the end of the afternoon, she was fussing to be put on the breast but then when she went on she would suck for a minute and then fall asleep.  As her latch got more shallow, she was pulling on my nipple and now my breasts feel like they are on fire.  The last feeding my letdown was excruciating and her sucking actually made me tear up.  It felt like my nipples were being shredded.  I'm going to call the lactation consultants at the hospital tomorrow to see if they have any advice.  And then I'll have my doctor check again for thrush at our appointment on Tuesday.  It's super frustrating because we've been doing so well and today I find I don't even want to respond to her feeding cues because my nipples hurt so badly and I'm so tired of nursing all the damn time.  Argh.  At least the nights have improved (cross your fingers they stay that way).

post #105 of 242

Boots - the probiotic question is interesting. I think things can only end up in your milk if they first make it into your blood supply, so that would be my first question - can the probiotics enter your bloodstream? I thought they just stayed in your digestive tract, but sometimes biology is counterintuitive :)


Lily - I think I had thrush at one point too - it felt like knives to nurse. My midwife prescribed an APNO (all purpose nipple ointment) with nystatin, muprocin, and betamethasone. It might have helped, or it might not have been thrush. God knows. It feels like as soon as I heal from one issue I have another! BFing has been the hardest thing. Thank god for this thread.

post #106 of 242

I'm so incredibly frustrated with the whole breastfeeding deal.  I absolutely HATE the fact that I hate breastfeeding. I dislike having to expose my breasts to do so and so I tried pumping for a while.. and it was okay for about 10 days except now my nipples hurt so much that I can't even pump anymore. Breastfeeding is less painful.  I can't even leave the house at all as I refuse to nurse her anywhere public or even in the car.  I'm jealous of those moms who love nursing and think it's all that and more. I just wish I felt the same and not a horrible mom who HATES breastfeeding. Funny. she's crying to be fed once again.  It really doesn't help that my husband can go out whenever he wants and enjoy his time and I can't. *insert a fair bit of expletives here*


/end rant

post #107 of 242
You're not a horrible mom for hating breastfeeding! It is realllly tough at the start, and for me it was usually not a sweet bonding experience but felt like I was at war with my baby. I could finally understand the moms I know who decided to stop and formula feed instead, because breastfeeding can become this terrible thing that overshadows the joy of getting to know your baby. And it's physically draining, and alienating, and can be terrifying if your baby isn't peeing/pooping/gaining enough. It really sucks to be stuck at home too, especially when your partner can just leave without really thinking about it.

I will say that for me it has started to get better, just in the last couple days, and now I can see why moms stick with it. I did try practicing discreet breastfeeding at home yesterday and since I don't have a nursing cover yet, the only way for me to get started was to get under the blanket with him! It worked but I don't think I'll be doing that in public.

A few suggestions that may or may not be helpful: can you go to a la leche league meeting? it may be a good place to practice nursing in public, since it's basically a room full of moms nursing their babies/toddlers. At the meeting I attend, women will breastfeed in various ways - some in a corner with a cover and some openly in front of everyone. I wore my baby and he slept the whole time - I can generally do short trips (2 hours or so) with him in the carrier, so I have been able to avoid needing to nurse him til we got home. If your baby likes being worn, it might be something that would work for you. Also, if pumping hurts, you might need a different size flange? I only have a manual pump at the moment and I can tell its too small because my nipple rubs against the sides (which definitely hurts).
post #108 of 242

Mtngirl, I'm sorry that breastfeeding has been so tough for you. I've thought more than once that it would be so much easier to just formula feed, but the wrath of my sister and mother, the long term benefits of BFing, and the cost of formula have kept the temptation at bay, and things are starting to get easier now, which is nice, because it becomes more of a bonding time for us.


Nursing in public has been a bit intimidating for me as well, and I've tried to carefully time any trips out to be between feedings.  I've only done it twice, but both times was at a birth center, so a bit less daunting, and I had a muslin blanket to sort of cover with.  I took Q to the grocery store the other day and she woke up and was hungry, but I just waited until I went to the car and nursed her there.  Luckily it wasn't too hot.  I'm thinking that if I do get to a point where I need to nurse in public, I will bring one of my muslin blankets to drape over her.  I'm just concerned about getting her latched on.  She has the laziest latch and so will try to latch, then look around, pull back, try to latch again, put her hands in between my breast and her mouth and suck on her arm or hand...it is frustrating for both of us.  Then I have the one inverted nipple that sometimes she can latch onto and other times she can't and we have to use a nipple shield, where we again run into issues with her hands and her latch because she will grab it and pull it off, or start to latch and then pull her head back while still keeping the shield in her mouth.


I have a call with my work provided lactation consultant once a week, which has been nice, but I asked her how I could help to get Q to have a deeper latch, and she suggested touching my nipple along her upper lip to signal her to open her mouth and when it is wide, insert the nipple, but this doesn't seem to be working for me.  I guess I will ask again on our weekly call, but do any of you have suggestions for getting a deeper latch?  Sometimes Q will just sort of suck my nipple in and I know she isn't latching deep at all. Her mouth covers my areola, but it is so small (not much wider than my nipple) that covering it isn't saying much.  And when she does that on my right nipple (which is the inverted nipple) there is still a bit of latching pain, which sucks (no pun intended) when she pulls off and gets back on three times before settling in and eating. I'm also getting a slight burning in that nipple when I'm not nursing. Not sure why.

post #109 of 242
Originally Posted by mtngirl81 View Post

 It really doesn't help that my husband can go out whenever he wants and enjoy his time and I can't. *insert a fair bit of expletives here*


/end rant


oh mama, i feel you on this!

post #110 of 242
Originally Posted by Veritas Vitae View Post


I have a call with my work provided lactation consultant once a week, which has been nice, but I asked her how I could help to get Q to have a deeper latch, and she suggested touching my nipple along her upper lip to signal her to open her mouth and when it is wide, insert the nipple, but this doesn't seem to be working for me.  I guess I will ask again on our weekly call, but do any of you have suggestions for getting a deeper latch?


I poke him in the face with my nipple winky.gif  I poke slightly above his mouth like you mentioned, which makes him reach up (lifting his chin) which gets a better latch.  I also sometimes will squeeze a little milk out so it's on my nipple and then poke his lips with it.  That seems to work pretty well for us.

post #111 of 242


Also, his nursing patterns have started to alter a lot. He's been feeding only like 4-7 minutes a side and when he's done he starts to fuss instead of falling asleep or seeming comforted. This sucks! I hope it resolves soon. I hate that nursing isn't soothing him, but at least he's feeding through his fussy times, a few times he was too freaked to do that. Also, despite his huge weight gain, I still worry about him not getting enough. I have heard babies get more efficient at milk transfer. Is it possible he's gotten better already? He used to go more like 10-15 per side.


Sounds like you may have a very fast letdown and flow.  I had this with my first, and she also never nursed more than a few minutes a side (but was getting plenty of milk) and at the beginning it always made her fussy.  If this is what it is, making sure you are leaning back or otherwise in a position in which the milk is working against gravity can help some.  But mostly just time will solve the issue, as they get better able to handle the flow.  I still remember how excited I was the first time DD fell asleep at the breast--I think she was over 2 months.  In the grand scheme of things it's a short amount of time, but I remember how agonizing it was going through it, feeling like my breast couldn't comfort her. Hang in there--as they say this too shall pass, and hopefully quicker than it did for me.  One benefit--my husband became the master soother and from early on she was able to fall asleep with someone bouncing on a ball or walking around with her, and it didn't have to be me, a huge benefit when I went back to work. And there is something to be said for short nursing sessions. Oh, and once DD1 mastered the flow, she became a huge fan of nursing--2 1/2 years later it is still her most favorite thing :)

post #112 of 242

Sol, I had to look up vaspospasm. Is your vaspospasm related to Reyna at all? I only ask because I have issues with Reynau, but it hasn't manifested in my nipples. 

Veritas - Yes.  I have to cover up at all times. Each and every time he wants to nurse I have to take off all my various layers and breast pads to keep them warm and then when he is done take great measures to put everything back in place. I see some people just keep their shirt off to give their babies access or for leaking issues or rub breastmilk then expose their breasts to air to feel better, those things are not an option for me. Too painful.

Where does your mainfest?  Mine is also in my feet, sometimes hands.  Feet in particular can get so painful really fast if I don't take the proper measures to stay warm.

post #113 of 242
Thread Starter 

rebecca, thanks for your input. I thought maybe it was OAL, then I thought not really, but now I'm back to thinking that's the problem. I am reluctant to try just feeding from one breast for several feedings like is recommended by some of the web site resources I've visited, because I'm going back to work in about a month and I would hate to do anything to decrease milk supply. I'm trying some reclined positions but with my very large breasts it's really hard.

You are so right, all of a sudden we have this problem and he isn't comforted by nursing anymore (or rarely) It's kind of breaking my heart, as he often would fall asleep nursing and we both seemed to get such a benefit from the time together. Now he nurses quickly, and gets fussy at the end of every feed. It's just completely different than it was just a week or ago.


In other news, today is my first day eliminating dairy on purpose and he seems less fussy tonight.

post #114 of 242

Mtgirl, hang in there!  Hope it gets easier for you soon. I read it can take 6 - 8 weeks for BF to become established.  Maybe you can try new shields for your pump?  There are a few different brands and types out there that might bring more comfort.  A LC can help.  


Boots, my DS started a variation of that new behavior too.  This has helped me at least try to understand more about maybe why he is doing this



Edited to add: Sometimes a burping session works, sometimes it just makes him more fussy.  A change of pace usually works then back to nursing.  Like walking around outside with him being held upright in case it is gas, prop him up on the boppy and show him different toys, he gets handed off to daddy, wearing him the backpack, etc. to break up the pattern.  

Some ladies at LLL love these drops so on their suggestion we bought a box but haven't used them yet http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-Homeopathic-Medicine-Cocyntal-Single-Use/dp/B001F0RAZW

Please let me know what seems to work for you so I can try those too.  I was sad to hear you gave up cheese, anything but THAT! Cheese is so delicious.

Edited by Sol_y_Paz - 9/10/12 at 1:11pm
post #115 of 242
Thread Starter 

Thanks Sol!


When I say "less fussy/colicky" after eliminating dairy, he still didn't go to sleep until 5:15 a.m. :(  He just seemed easier to comfort, so the experiment continues. I must love this kid to give up cheese!

post #116 of 242

Big hugs and support to all.... I feel your pains Mamas, and hope they get better for everyone!!


For the past several days now, I've pretty much stopped pumping (per LC's instructions, yay!) and have been continuing to feed William on the breast (mostly side lying, but sitting up has worked on a few occasions).  Although I'm soooo grateful for breaking the exclusive pumping cycle, we're running into new challenges that most of you on this thread have seen - such as a shallow latch, and the mind blowing pain that comes with that!!  Through the wee hours of Sat night I hit my limit and was completely freaking out in frustration and pain - William is now calm enough over night to not be screaming at the start of BF'ing - but that means his mouth won't open enough to get the nipple in deep enough, so he just chews on it (and the shields don't work w/him).  He wakes every 2 hours on the dot, and then nurses slowly (chewing!) for at least an hour at a time.  It's excrutiating!!  There is no time for my breasts/nipples to recover, nor get any sleep!  As nice as the side lying position is in theory, my neck and back are SO stiff and hurting from not being able to move for hours on end.  And my entire breasts are so tender all the time that I can barely hold him in my arms....


I'm also concerned now about whether he's getting enough from my breast or not.  Sometimes his diapers don't seem as soaked as they used to, or not as frequent.  I still cave and give him a few extra ounces from the bottle every few feedings just to calm him down, about 2x a day.  Although I DON'T miss pumping round the clock, I'm nervous that I might be jeopardizing my supply, due to his new fussiness and more frequent need to feed (every 2 hrs vs. the 4 hrs that I could get when he was being fed 4 oz from the bottle)


Last night I caved and gave him 4 oz from the bottle (half milk + formula) right before bed @ 11pm, and sure enough he slept til 4:30 am!  So I got the break I needed, but felt guilty for "cheating" as bottles/formula are exactly what we're trying to get away from.


I'm definitely NOT in the "I Love Breastfeeding" camp, yet!!  So far we've only had about 2-3 "decent" and somewhat peaceful nursing sessions that didn't start or end in tears, pain or frustration.  Those moments were a nice glimpse of how much better things could be, but we're still far from that goal....I must admit to some guilty relief when I've had to top off w/formula in desperation, or when the bottle gives DH a chance to feed William or allow us some freedom to leave the house "off schedule".  It's definitely encouraging to read about the progress that some of you are finally having!


CCoello - glad to hear that positioning worked for clearing up your duct - I will have to try that when we both have enough patience (I've also heard that getting on your hands & knees w/baby underneath can help too, from the gravity.....)  At the moment, mine's not hurting as much as it was... but it's still a hard lump - I'm curious how long that can be ignored if it's not getting any worse??


Boots - good luck w/the dietary changes!!  I hope you don't have to go through too much trial and error to figure out what may be affecting Lyle!!


post #117 of 242
Thread Starter 

Joy, can I suggest you try a sitting position (with pillows). I started with sidelying and I think it can be great, but doesn't give you as much control, which might be helpful to work on latch issues. Our favorite is cross cradle (Where the hand nearest to the breast supports the breast (in a c or v or whatever feels good) and the opposite hand and arm control the baby. The LC I saw told me I was being waaay too gentle with him. :) So don't be afraid to hold the back of his neck firmly and then when you see a good gape, you can bring him to the breast quickly. I don't have much advice for the nipple pain, I have somehow avoided that. The only thing I can tell you is do what feels right. The LC told me Lyle had a shallow latch but I have 0 nipple pain and he's obviously gaining very well, so I just ignored her and focused on other issues.

Okay, this is just my own experience, but I wouldn't worry about him not having as many diapers. I don't think Lyle was getting 4 oz from me at William's age, maybe more like 2.5-3.5? (this is my guess based on pumping and having weighed him after a feed at the LC) So he may be getting less but it's still most likely plenty! Especially if he's nursing more often (since breastmilk digests faster than formula) But I totally don't blame you for giving him a bottle to give yourself a break. You had a very tough birth and a big breastfeeding challenge right off. If your goal is to get him back EBF, I know you can do it! i did it and I NEVER thought I would/could. I really hope you can find a solution to the pain, though. I know some women grit their teeth and power through, but it seems like you both have had a rough enough time. It's hard enough to feed a newborn without dealing with so much pain. Will you see your doula again? Maybe she can help with a new position and latch concerns.


mtngirl, I'm so sorry you are having a rough time. I was really concerned about having to have my breasts exposed, I have issues about that. I have been okay so far but no real nursing in public. I am wondering if there's certain nursing wear, bras, or a nursing covers that would make you feel better, if you can just experiment until you feel more comfortable. Honestly, I think if you go back through this thread most of us have hated breastfeeding at one time or another! It is challenging and demanding and hurts and is all tied up in our own feelings about our bodies, our babies, and our birth experiences. So don't feel guilty. It does suck being the sole source of food and not being able to go out and feel like an independent person. You aren't the only one with these feelings. I hope you've had some better days since you posted.


Sol, thanks for all that info! I agree we have tried the change of pace (usually Dh takes him and walks around and brings him back when he's calmer) I'll look at those drops. So far we've tried Mommy's Bliss Gripe Water (which is just ginger and fennel sugar water, mostly. Works great for curing hiccups and he loves it, but not so much with the fussing) and Biogaia Probiotic drops (only two days in on that one, not sure yet)



I am wondering if there's some big hormone shift around 5 weeks, I've been kind of mess. When he has been fussy at the breast I've been so emotional about it, like he takes no comfort in me anymore. J was like, "what are you talking about, I've seen him asleep after nursing"..I was like, "no that was how it was before, now he hates me!" And J was like "no, I mean today." Ugh.

We'll see how dairy-free day 2 goes. I don't know if I got all the "hidden dairy" out yesterday, and I forgot to check my Trader Joe's granola and protein bar today. Ugh.

post #118 of 242

I just wanted to offer up some breastfeeding coverage advice based on my experimentation.  I've been trying a lot of different clothing options to find the combination that offered me good coverage when breastfeeding so that I felt comfortable.  The nursing bras and v-necks are nice for ease of access, but I still felt pretty exposed with essentially my whole breast out.  Another option I've been doing is a Bella Band on under a t-shirt, so I'm pulling my shirt up, but my torso is still covered, which I like a lot because I still feel like I'm appropriately covered.  But the easiest, which provides just as much coverage as the t-shirt/Bella Band combo, is a sports bra and v neck/deep cut top, which I love because I can pull the v neck down and the sports bra up, and you can barely tell I'm nursing, except for the little slurping type sounds Q makes sometimes.  I've had the opportunity to try out different "NIP" combos at the house since my MIL and BIL are visiting. One thing I can say is I am very glad I purchased the light muslin blankets, because they are so lightweight and I can cover Q while she is eating without feeling like I am suffocating her.


Also, I don't know if my mom is just reminiscing or what, but whenever I nurse around her she kind of looks over and checks out what I'm doing and how Q is latching, it makes me very uncomfortable...I'm a more private person, let me just latch my kid on without an audience....my MIL is so great, she never makes me feel uncomfortable, even if I'm trying to get Q to latch on while sitting right next to her. I wish I could tell my mom she is making me uncomfortable without hurting her feelings, but I'm sure it would. I've just started getting up and walking away from her when Q wants to eat.

post #119 of 242

mtngirl, I meant to reply earlier, but our new "latch correcting" regimen means I can no longer nurse no-handed, so I haven't had time to reply.  Big hugs and I think what you're feeling is totally normal and completely understandable.  I had to have DH give Piper a bottle of frozen milk the other day because I just could not stand the thought of her on my boob.  It was a horrible feeling and I felt so detached from her and so resentful of the pain I was in.  I signed up for the LLL forum and got some good advice and started treating this like any other difficult thing that takes practice.  Instead of assuming it would come naturally, I started assuming we were going to have to work at it.  Sol posted a great link above on women who don't love breastfeeding but do it anyway.  And it was kind of inspiring.  I hate to admit that I don't get any kind of oxytocin high from this.  The most I get is relief when it doesn't hurt.  But I'm doing it because it's important to me and important to my baby.  And I'm just hoping that, as everyone says, it gets better.  But please please please don't feel like a failure or a bad mom.  I had those same feelings and as natural as they are, they are just destructive and not worth holding on to.  Let us know how things go.


I've started compulsively correcting Piper's latch and making sure that I only nurse in situations where I have proper support to prevent her from dragging my nipples.  It has made a big difference already, though I still have inexplicable pain at times.  Last night our side-lying was pretty painful for no apparent reason.  We'll just keep working at it though. 


I'm at a coffee shop and experimenting with sling feeding.  I found that turning her to face me (cuddle hold?  is that what it's called?) like a little frog and then popping her on the boob with a swaddle over the nursing shoulder worked really well. I had to hold the boob in position, so it wasn't hands free, but it was very discreet and pretty comfortable.  So I'm feeling more comfortable getting out and nursing her.  The next step is to convince her esophagus to get stronger so that she actually keeps down what she nurses.  I had to strip her down when we got to the coffee shop because she covered herself from top to bottom in spit up.  It was like a flood of partially digested milk.  Gross.

post #120 of 242

So over the last couple of days, Quinn has been more and more frustrated when she is trying to eat.  She'll often latch on and suck for a minute and then start crying, and this can go on for over an hour at night (usually around 2 hours or more).  She gets sooo frustrated and I don't think she is getting enough milk.  I had 2.5 ounces in the freezer that I had expressed back when I was engorged, and so I had B give that to her, and then she was happy, she latched on to me still right before she fell asleep, but prior to being given a bottle, she would not calm down.  The next night, the same thing happened, but I didn't have any more EBM, so she just had to feed and feed until she finally fell asleep, then she woke up more often during the night to eat.  During the day she is often waking up more often to feed as I don't think she is getting enough milk at each feeding.  So she has a longer afternoon nap time each day so I decided to start pumping during that time to try and build up a supply.  In an hour of pumping I got less than an ounce. What can I do to build up my supply? I'm currently sitting on the couch drinking an Abita Turbodog, hoping Quinn doesn't wake up, since I heard beer, and especially dark beer, is good for milk production. Any other food/recipes you ladies know of that can help with supply?

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