Breastfeeding Support - Page 7 « Back to Group Discussions

[LilyTiger]

Veritas, you might want to check out the LLL forums.  Piper went through a similar phase at that age and I think it was an annoying growth spurt rather than a supply issue.  Is her weight gain ok?  How is her latch?  The pumping thing may or may not mean anything.  I get much less from pumping than one would expect, but Piper gets a lot.  Babies are more efficient than pumps anyway.  It would be worth talking to an LC though.  I've heard good things about oatmeal and fenugreek if you do determine you have a supply issue. 

Also, check out kellymom.org (or .com?) for info on the beer issue.  Apparently beer actually doesn't help and may hinder aspects of breastfeeding.  I don't let that prevent me from having a nice IPA now and then, but I guess they say don't expect it to help with supply issues.

[Veritas Vitae]

Thanks for the resource, Lily, I went to the website and it made me feel much better.  I had my MIL here for this last week, and I was getting freaked out because she kept saying Quinn wasn't getting enough food, and that I needed to go to sleep or my supply would go down because I was too tired.  Then during the day, when Quinn was fussy, she would keep holding her, saying she wasn't hungry yet, and then wasn't giving her back until she was seriously frustrated, despite Q doing all her hungry motions prior to that (hands to ears, hands/arms to mouth, etc.)  It was really frustrating me, even though having her around otherwise was a huge help. I know she probably just wanted to spend more time holding the baby, since most of a NBs time is spent sleeping and eating, but it was just all, "argh, I need to feed my baby!"

Oh, and Sol, my Reynaud's is limited to my hands and feet. 

[iixivboots]

Originally Posted by Veritas Vitae 

So over the last couple of days, Quinn has been more and more frustrated when she is trying to eat.  She'll often latch on and suck for a minute and then start crying, and this can go on for over an hour at night (usually around 2 hours or more).  She gets sooo frustrated and I don't think she is getting enough milk.  I had 2.5 ounces in the freezer that I had expressed back when I was engorged, and so I had B give that to her, and then she was happy, she latched on to me still right before she fell asleep, but prior to being given a bottle, she would not calm down.  The next night, the same thing happened, but I didn't have any more EBM, so she just had to feed and feed until she finally fell asleep, then she woke up more often during the night to eat.  During the day she is often waking up more often to feed as I don't think she is getting enough milk at each feeding.  So she has a longer afternoon nap time each day so I decided to start pumping during that time to try and build up a supply.  In an hour of pumping I got less than an ounce. What can I do to build up my supply? I'm currently sitting on the couch drinking an Abita Turbodog, hoping Quinn doesn't wake up, since I heard beer, and especially dark beer, is good for milk production. Any other food/recipes you ladies know of that can help with supply?

Lyle does this exact thing during his fussy time. He latches for a few seconds to a minute then screams at my nipple like he's screaming into a microphone. (1 a.m. to 3 or 4)  I know I have milk, I used to think I didn't. He might not be patient enough to get another letdown if he needs one, but there is milk there, I suspect you have milk, too! I know he's not getting a full feed during that time but we've also had him be fussy taking a bottle during that time, so honestly since it's a short period and he's not starving, we usually ride it out. Not that I haven't cried, been frustrated, and keep trying to feed him, but I don't know. I have a theory I might have overactive letdown, or there's something about the flow that bothers him during that time because he's cranky that he tolerates the rest of the time. I"m thinking that when I go back to work that pumped milk is just going to be too precious to give him just because he's being fussy. Hoping he'll grow out of it, Q too!

[CCoello]

Armie fussy latches too. Tonight he kept acting like he was starving, then nursed for < 1 minute before crying into my boob. So frustrating!

I know I have *plenty* of supply, in fact, if he pulls away on my left side the milk will literally spray & shoot out of the nipple and go all over the place. I'm changing my shirt over and over again! But anyway, VV, I drank some of that Mother's Milk tea because I bought a box before the birth to have on hand and I was used to having an afternoon cup of RRL and thought this would replace that. However, every time I drink it I am painfully engorged the next day. So it must work if you are still looking for a supply boost.

However I agree with PPs - it is probably just Q's fussy time and there might not be anything wrong with your supply.

Also, I have found a neat pumping trick. If I try to pump at any old time it is slow going and I am lucky to get an oz. However, if I pump at one boob with one hand while he is feeding at the other boob (held by my other hand) I can seriously get milk fast! Like over 3 oz in less than 10 minutes if I use the left side, or 2.5 oz on the right. As soon as he stops nursing I can only pump for about 30 sec before the milk stops flowing.

It's a bit tricky to master, but I'm so glad I figured that out! Now I am pumping one bottle a day for DH to take an overnight feeding.

[Veritas Vitae]

Originally Posted by CCoello 

Armie fussy latches too. Tonight he kept acting like he was starving, then nursed for < 1 minute before crying into my boob. So frustrating!

I know I have *plenty* of supply, in fact, if he pulls away on my left side the milk will literally spray & shoot out of the nipple and go all over the place. I'm changing my shirt over and over again! But anyway, VV, I drank some of that Mother's Milk tea because I bought a box before the birth to have on hand and I was used to having an afternoon cup of RRL and thought this would replace that. However, every time I drink it I am painfully engorged the next day. So it must work if you are still looking for a supply boost.

However I agree with PPs - it is probably just Q's fussy time and there might not be anything wrong with your supply.

Also, I have found a neat pumping trick. If I try to pump at any old time it is slow going and I am lucky to get an oz. However, if I pump at one boob with one hand while he is feeding at the other boob (held by my other hand) I can seriously get milk fast! Like over 3 oz in less than 10 minutes if I use the left side, or 2.5 oz on the right. As soon as he stops nursing I can only pump for about 30 sec before the milk stops flowing.

It's a bit tricky to master, but I'm so glad I figured that out! Now I am pumping one bottle a day for DH to take an overnight feeding.

I will have to try this trick.  I need to start building up a supply, and I got a little more milk today pumping, but only just over an oz in 30 minutes, and then my nipples were soooo sore for the next couple of hours.  On top of that, Quinn woke up immediately after I finished pumping and then spent the rest of the afternoon/night alternately eating for a short amount of time, crying at my nipple, and briefly falling asleep before starting that routine over again. (Lol, the description of crying into a microphone was cracking me up and is oh so accurate).  After an hour or so, I could tell there was some milk, because I would drip a little bit on the nipple she wasn't on, and she became less fussy.  So I think I may try the MM Tea and see what happens, since prior to yesterday, I haven't included pumping in my routine and I'm also contending with Q's growth spurt.

[iixivboots]

I have MM tea too and haven't tried it, but I might. I think my supply finally evened out as I was feeling engorged after 3 hours now am not and that coincided with Lyle nursing for shorter periods.

I have a small stash in the freezer from pumping when I was engorged and he wouldn't eat. Just two bags of 4 oz, and a couple <2 oz bags.  Typically I get about 2 oz from both at this point, I was getting more at some point but I haven't been pumping as much and haven't decided when. I think he eats about 3 to 4 each feeding, so I hate dumping two pumpings worth into one bag, always promising 4, am REALLY hoping I won't have to pump twice to feed him once when I am at work. I don't see how that's going to be possible.

I still haven't really mastered hands free/relaxing/ignoring the bottles or double pumping. I feel like I have to constantly "relatch" them trying to get a better flow and having huge breasts doesn't help. I cut a front close sports bra to fit the flanges through but only tried it for a few minutes. I tend to get a fair amount more if I shake, compress and massage. I just don't see that as viable for a work situation, though, and I make a mess! Ugh.

Will try the feed on one side and pump on the other this weekend when I have DH to spot me. :)

Dr. Sears Baby book says to stop obsessing about going back to work it will interfere with baby bonding... :(

[NewMumJoy]

VV - I'm running into the same thing here too - about once a day - where William sucks frantically and then screams in frustration making me think I don't have enough milk since he just ate so recently.  And especially w/the issues that I was having earlier on, it definitely makes me second guess myself and want to run to the fridge for a bottle just to settle him quickly.  Fortunately I've been able to get up and distract him with walking/bouncing and then we resume feeding about 15-30 minutes later with better luck.  I've been reassured from my LCs that babies will get what they need from the breast, and as long as there is weight gain and wet diapers then your supply is fine (and will continue to regulate based on his time spent at the breast)!  I read somewhere today that mechanical pumps can draw out as little as 20% of available milk from the breast - so what you pump is indeed not a good indication of your supply (I was worried about the same thing here myself!!).  With my LCs encouragement, I'm learning to let go of the measurements and schedules (based on my previous pumping) and just follow this kid's lead.  Today I stopped recording all his feeding times, durations and diaper output.... a nice break indeed, but my patience and confidence are still tested when he has those frantic episodes...

CCoello - thanks for the tip!!  I hope that I'll have the same luck with that too.  We rented a hospital grade pump for the month, but I'm hoping that I can get by w/my manual pump from this point on since it's more portable and convenient for the traveling that we have ahead of us next month.

Boots - I'm now able to nurse William while sitting up, in the same positions that you had suggested :)    It's still some work with adjusting pillows, and needing both hands for positioning him and my breast (and compressing and massaging too).  I found that the nipple pain/tugging is more bearable as long as I'm holding/compressing my breast w/one hand....so no hands free for me yet, either!  And the same goes for pumping, I need to be massaging and compressing to get good output - so I'm usually hunched over the flanges in weird positions or only using one flange at a time.  I also have to take short breaks every few minutes to get additional letdowns and keep things flowing.

[sarahdb]

VV--I had to work really hard to increase my supply too, since my LO wasn't gaining weight and I needed to rely on pumping. It didn't take me too long to increase my supply (which is easier to gauge when doing a lot of pumping). I'm not sure which factor helped to increase it, since I did several things, but this is what I did: drank MM tea, took fenugreek, ate tons of oatmeal, drank a lot of water, pumped for 15-20 minutes after every nursing... I think that's it, but I felt like there was more. 

[sarahdb]

NewMumJoy--just read what you wrote about supply. I think we've both been in the same situation--it's just that you're a little further ahead of me in the process of trying to get off the scheduled feedings and pumpings. Part of what frustrates me is that there's so much conflicting information out there regarding breastfeeding and whether baby is getting enough or not. But what you say makes sense. I suppose our problem wasn't my supply so much as the fact that my LO had a bad latch. Having said that, though, I was able to significantly increase my supply in terms of what I got via pumping. When I first started, I would only get 1 1/2 - 2 oz. Now I regularly get 4-5 oz per pumping. When we weighed Elodie before and after a feeding, we found out she was only getting 2/3 oz per nursing session. And that was a long nursing session. I'm really looking forward to the day when all of this will actually be intuitive. Right now, it just feels like a big science experiment, and I don't like that!

[NewMumJoy]

Yeah, we definitely had bad latch issues from the get-go and also difficulties with my positioning of him.  The pain/swelling after the c-section also affected my ability to get him into good positions for nursing the first week pp...

I'm also taking fenugreek and blessed thistle (3 caplets, 3X day) and I'd like to also try the MM tea.....I can't tell how much it's helped as I started taking them before my supply started to come in.  I've no plans to stop them anytime soon, just to be on the safe side.  And I eat oatmeal everyday.  There is also a prescription available here in Canada called Domperidone that they've offered to me, but I'm afraid to start it and then not be able to get it when I move back to the US in a few weeks.

The last couple of days, I've been focusing on putting William to the breast as often as possible.  At every little cue, I try to nurse - even if it's just for 5 minutes - instead of trying to make him go longer in between feedings.  My LC insists that stimulation from the baby is way more effective than stimulation from the pump, as far as bringing up your supply.  It's very super time consuming - we've literally been hanging out in the bedroom all day and nothing else is getting done - but I just tell myself that this is a temporary period and a good investment of our time.  Plus with DH out of town all week, I haven't been able to put William down long enough to use the pump anyways....

[lakeruby]

Originally Posted by Veritas Vitae 

So over the last couple of days, Quinn has been more and more frustrated when she is trying to eat.  She'll often latch on and suck for a minute and then start crying, and this can go on for over an hour at night (usually around 2 hours or more).  She gets sooo frustrated and I don't think she is getting enough milk.  I had 2.5 ounces in the freezer that I had expressed back when I was engorged, and so I had B give that to her, and then she was happy, she latched on to me still right before she fell asleep, but prior to being given a bottle, she would not calm down.  The next night, the same thing happened, but I didn't have any more EBM, so she just had to feed and feed until she finally fell asleep, then she woke up more often during the night to eat.  During the day she is often waking up more often to feed as I don't think she is getting enough milk at each feeding.  So she has a longer afternoon nap time each day so I decided to start pumping during that time to try and build up a supply.  In an hour of pumping I got less than an ounce. What can I do to build up my supply? I'm currently sitting on the couch drinking an Abita Turbodog, hoping Quinn doesn't wake up, since I heard beer, and especially dark beer, is good for milk production. Any other food/recipes you ladies know of that can help with supply?

oats & almonds are good for milk too.

[NewMumJoy]

I came across this concise and helpful article "How to Tell When You Baby is Geting Enough Breast Milk" :

http://www.babycareadvice.com/babycare/general_help/article.php?id=3

[Veritas Vitae]

Sounds good, I have been having steel cut oatmeal with craisins, raisins, sliced almonds and sunflower seeds most days for breakfast (I was actually already doing this), then I got some brewer's yeast (which I'm still trying to figure out the best way to take, since it has a strong flavor, so far the winner is protein shake with brewer's yeast and bee pollen), MM Tea, and I'm going to make some no bake oatmeal cookies with milled flax seed.  I know now that Q is getting enough food, but since I'm trying to pump and save milk as well, now, boosting my supply seems like a good idea. Most of the growth spurt fussiness (screaming into my boob) seems to have passed, although there is still a bit of it.  However, she still wants to be held all evening (7-whenever we go to sleep, usually 11 or twelve), which I don't mind at all.  I also picked up some Lansinoh Heat/Cool packs to use with the pump (heat) to help get a faster let-down.  Plus they feel really nice and can be used for plugged ducts, mastitis, and as cooling pads in between feedings/pumping.

ETA: Here is the cool/heat breast packs.

Edited by Veritas Vitae - 9/16/12 at 5:49pm

[CCoello]

Brewer's yeast is delicious sprinkled on buttered popcorn :) Or on your favorite stew, especially veggie curries.

[Sol_y_Paz]

http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.com/2011/01/breasts-feeling-full-good-thing-myth.html

Found this interesting and encouraging.  

[NewMumJoy]

Has anyone tried making Tigers Milk to increase their supply?  The recipes are not all the same, here is a simple one I came across (I think the key ingredient is the brewers yeast):

1 1/2 cups of full milk
1 banana
1 Tbsp flaxseed oil
3 Tbsp Brewers Yeast powder
2 Tbsp honey
1/2 cup yogurt
1/2 cup complan powder  (I think this is like Carnation Instant Breakfast powder?)
1 raw egg.... (I'd guess this would be optional!)

... and there's a bit more complicated recipe here:

http://tigermilkrecipe.blogspot.ca/

[Sol_y_Paz]

http://www.drmomma.org/2009/07/breastfeeding-in-land-of-genghis-khan.html

This story and experience was vastly different than nursing here in the US, thought someone here might find it interesting too. 

[sarahdb]

I've had a traumatic last 24 hours or so. I thought I had a plugged duct for a few days, but it just kept getting more and more painful and I couldn't seem to unplug it. It was painful to the point that I'd rather give birth again than experience that pain. Also, my breast was getting red and warm to the touch. When I started shivering and was really cold, we finally went to an  Urgent Care clinic last night and discovered my temp was 102.3. Yikes. The doctor ordered some blood cultures, as well as two IVs--one for fluids because of my fever, and one for antibiotics (since I clearly have mastitis). Under the best circumstances, I'm a hard stick, but with my fever, it was nearly impossible for the nurses to find veins. Coupled with bad bedside manner, after 10 needle sticks I was pretty traumatized. However, I did feel better once the fluids were in me.

I had to come back in for a followup today. The doctor ordered more blood cultures (again the nurse had trouble), and was going to order another round of IV antibiotics. I was so upset at that idea that he said I could have the antibiotics as a shot in the butt instead. I chose that. Much better.

Then I was sent for an ultrasound of my breast to see if I had an abscess. Of course, with the way my luck is going with my whole breastfeeding journey, I had a large abscess. Thankfully we are past the days when that requires surgery, so the radiologist was able to drain the abscess right there (more needles, but this time not as traumatic).

So now I have to go for another followup tomorrow with an OBGYN. I am so frustrated and at the end of my emotional rope. There is such a big part of me that just wants to give up on breastfeeding. I'm so scared that tomorrow the doctor will still not be satisfied with my progress, and more invasive things will need to be done. I've cried so much in the last few days. I just want to have my breast back, normal and whole.

[iixivboots]

Oh Sarah, that sounds terrible! I am wishing you lots of healing vibes. I don't blame you for your thoughts about giving up. I know we've all had them and dealt with less. The fact that you are even coming here for support makes me think you are a committed BF'ing mama and will continue. Are you able to nurse through this or are you having to supplement, pump etc? I know that can really shake your confidence, but at some point this will be just a bad memory.

I had a fever a few nights ago too, which I think was UTI-related. I had bad back pain, too. Has since gone away since I started treating it. I was scared it was mastitis but I didn't have any other symptoms. However, I've been taking antibiotics for a UTI I thought I had when pregnant, and now I'm TERRIFIED of thrush. Lyle has been super fussy, and my boobs seem to hurt more than normal. He and I are both on probiotics but I'm still so worried. I think I'm taking him to the doctor this week if the insane fussiness continues, and hopefully he can check for signs of thrush.

[NewMumJoy]

Omg Sarah - I can't even imagine how horrible that must've been - awful awful awful!!!  And how did you handle keeping baby fed through this whole ordeal?  Are you still having to pump as well?  I hope you're doing much better by now and that this is all behind you.... fingers crossed that you don't have to suffer much more....

Boots - I'm terrified of thrush too (and mastitis!!), with the more that I read about it (and people's experiences w/it).  My public health nurse who's been keeping tabs on me told me to start treating myself for thrush (with acidophilus, grapefruit seed extract, and prescription nipple ointment), although William doesn't have the white patches in his mouth or the diaper rash (yet).  I just simply have constant soreness and tenderness in my breasts and my nipples are burning all the time - whether he's nursing or not.  It's just so discouraging to hear how complicated the treatments can become and how long it can take to clear it up (I wonder how anyone would be able to stick w/breastfeeding after a bad/recurring bout of it!).  I'm not convinced that I (we) actually do have full blown thrush - there are still further treatment measures that I haven't taken on yet - but I think part of me is also in denial.  I'm hoping that its just bad latch issues which are causing this suffering that will somehow miraculously disappear on its own one day....