Baby won't nap, everyone suggesting CIO please help me! - Page 2

[clairebear3]

Thanks for that link, it's very helpful.  Yeah DD is 17 weeks and these problems started literally the day she turned 4 months.

Last night we didn't let her nap between the two last feeds.  Before bed I gave her some Perdolan (paracetamol based) in-case she was in pain from her teeth and swaddled her in the miracle blanket from the armpits down.  Actually she could still move her legs quite well so it didn't really have much point.

She slept solidly until she woke laying 90degrees the wrong way in the bed!  I straightened her up and helped her to lay on her side.  I was holding onto the swaddle to keep her there and she fell asleep.  At some point I must of fallen asleep and when I woke at 8am she was still asleep, on her stomach with her head turned to the side  It really freaked me out because I know she can't get onto her front again.  We have an Angelcare mat but still i'm worried about her sleeping like this.  They always say if you find them on their stomach to put them on their back again and here I am, probably the cause that she ended up on her stomach!
 

[RosieL]

Coincidentally, when I put Odin into his crib last night after a 11PM feeding he instantly rolled onto his stomach and slept like that for a few hours. He had never easily rolled before! But he was sound asleep, arms free, and I know he can move from front to back (he started that early I guess), so I let him be. 

This is quite the adventure, isn't it.

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by RosieL 

This is quite the adventure, isn't it.

I know!  You think you have everything sussed out and then they throw you a curve ball!

How old is your LO?

Well last night I didn't give her any painkillers before sleep and her first waking was at 12.40am again!  I put her on her side with a pillow tucked behind her bottom and it lasted until about 4am.  Then nothing helped and I ended up rocking her to sleep and sitting up in the bed again with her.  I tried her on her tummy and side but nothing helped I kept trying to give her her paci back but she was incessantly grabbing my fingers.

Pfff I am a shell of a woman at the moment!  I just wish I could see a tooth coming through then at least I would have something to blame in the middle of the night.  Do the teeth come through on the very tip of the gum ridge or just behind?  I tried to find a google pic but I couldn't see anything clearly.

My teething necklace should be hear soon so i'm curious to see if that will help.  How often is too often to give some kind of painkiller?  I think since birth she has had 'Perdolan' sirop 3 times...
 

[RosieL]

My boy is 4.5 months. Don't know about the pain killers...I'm kind of just taking it as it comes. But Mine is waking once every two hours and going back to sleep...not waking and staying awake. If he was doing that I'd definitely bring him straight to bed in hopes of cosleeping. I feel like I always have that available to ameliorate sleep, even though it's not what we want in the longer term.

[clairebear3]

Well DD also rolled onto her tummy for the first time yesterday!  She's 17 weeks and the crazy thing is neither DH or I saw it!  She was just suddenly on her tummy on her play mat, it's so weird because she hates tummy time!

Last night it started again before 1am, I tried positioning her on her side but it didn't last for long.  I rocked her back to sleep and then put her in her crib on her back with my BF cushion tucked around her side.  She slept until about 7.30, but I must of put her paci back in about 6 times!  Then I took her into our bed with me until about 8.30, I was so tired.  I would like to co-sleep but to be honest I don't trust myself to do it at night.  I'm not sure that I wouldn't just pull the duvet up or something in my sleep.  Once I fell asleep with mu hand on her mouth holding the paci and it really freaked me out...
 

[RosieL]

I started sleeping in a long sleeved open-front shirt and pants with a tank top that pulls down. That solves my blanket problem, I just don't have one anywhere near me. I do keep the sheet on me though. 

Last night LO slept from 8 to 2, nursed, then 2:15 to 5 (diaper change), then 5 to 6 and then in bed from 6 to 7. I don't know that we did anything different than normal. Well, maybe we did. Normally we have bath -> PJs -> nurse while daddy reads book. Last night I just couldn't deal with his pulling off and back-arching. I nursed him at 7. Bath at 7:30, daddy read book while baby laid in crib, then I took baby out and nursed him to sleep (that was quick and no arching!). Normally bath is at 7, so I'm going to see if moving it back that extra half hour gives us more consistent sleep. Needless to say I was thrilled at the 6 hours but I don't expect it again every night!

[RosieL]

Ps. One or two of the books I read about sleep suggests having someone to talk about the night before each morning. Maybe I'll use this thread thta way! :)

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by RosieL 

Ps. One or two of the books I read about sleep suggests having someone to talk about the night before each morning. Maybe I'll use this thread thta way! :)

Sounds good!

Oh dear I had the worst night so far here.

DD woke for the first time between 12-1 am.  She was laying 180 degrees in the other direction somehow.  Gave her her paci and she slept until 3am.  Then it was continual giving of her paci, trying her on her side etc.  When I go to put the paci in she is so awake she grabs my fingers like a maniac.  I tried putting a towel rolled up behind her back so she could stay on her side but she got really mad.  I rocked her back to sleep once and tried to put her in her crib, she woke up.  Rocked her to sleep and laid her next to me, she woke up.  Even in my arms she wasn't in a very deep sleep.  Ended up sitting upright until 7.45 when I could finally get her to sleep next to me and then the alarm goes off at 8.25

Maybe it's something i'm doing routine wise?  I haven't changed anything though.  She doesn't have a feed in the night (i'm EPing) because she used to sleep through until 6am and I was just feeding her to get her to sleep not because she was really hungry.  I'm sure she's not really hungry otherwise there's no way she would last until 8.30 in the morning.  She doesn't even drink a lot then and usually brings a little bit back up (otherwise she never throws up).

So she drinks at 8.30, 12.15ish, 15.30, 18.30 and then bedtime routine starts at 21.10 and bottle at 21.30 then bed.  She usually falls asleep in my arms downstairs at about 20.15 so i'm actually waking her up to go through the routine.  Should I start putting her to bed earlier?  Would she then wake even earlier?  What do i do about the 21.30 bottle, just see when she wakes up?

Also her hands felt cold in the night, maybe she isn't warm enough?  She had her diaper on, two piece thin pajamas (no bodysuit) and an armless sleep-bag made of sweatshirt/t-shirt type material (double).  The room was 22degrees but the window was open on her side (blinds closed), maybe I should try tonight with a bodysuit.

Pff two weeks ago I was only worried about her not napping in her bed, from the moment we got her doing that she doesn't sleep at night!  I made the room quite dark to get her to nap, maybe her rhythm is messed up?  Although she never sleeps for more than 3hrs during the day

I'm just doubting everything now...  Can this all be from teething pain even though I don't see a tooth?  How long should a sleep regression last I wonder? Just not sure how long I can keep going on this amount of sleep and hubby has night shift right now!

[clairebear3]

ps i'm going back to 6 bottles a day, I think she should be drinking more...

[MamaBookworm]

Just wanted to offer support from someone who is sort of on the other side. I had a fussy sleeper who seemed to just grow out of it. I know this is probably no consolation to you now (because, believe me, I nearly went mad with sleep deprivation), but every time we would figure out a good routine she would hit some other kind of milestone and have another regression. I read many sleep books, but nothing really seemed to definitively work. Soooo, we held her a lot. Used a swaddle until she was probably six months old. I fed her when she woke up at night (I think some kids just take longer or have faster metabolisms or something and really do need to eat every couple of hours). Also, I would lay a heating pad in her crib so that when I laid her down after nursing or rocking her to sleep it would be warm (take the heating pad out before you put baby in). And when I put her down I would sort of lean all the way over into the crib and keep "holding her", and then gradually let go. LOL! I laugh to think about it now, because I'm really short and I'm surprised I never fell over the crib rail and right into the crib with her.

 

Everything changed when she hit about 15-18 months old. She was a really tough baby to parent, but wow, what an awesome toddler (2.5 now). Sleeps well, is very in tune with her body and asks for what she needs. For what it's worth she pretty much goes to sleep and wakes up with the sun, which means she has a very late bedtime in summer and sleeps like 12 hours a night in winter. I'll be curious to see if it continues as she gets older. It always seems to be the right "amount" of sleep for her, although now that I'm thinking about it, she does seem to nap a little more in the summer. But maybe you are on to something with the night time sleep being affected by the shades when she is napping.

 

(I was actually over here lurking because I'm pregnant with my second now and the first year is such a blur I don't even remember what it's like to take care of an infant. And now I'm panicking. )

 

Good luck to you! I hope you get some sleep soon.

[RosieL]

Odin goes to sleep around 7:30 each night, so 9:30 sounds really late to me! What are her naps like?

[clairebear3]

Well our day is more or less like this...

6.00 bottle, back to sleep for a while

9.30 bottle

11.00 nap +/- 1hr

12.30 bottle

14.00 nap 45 mins

15.30 bottle

17.00 nap 45 mins

18.30 bottle

20.15 falls asleep on me

21.10 bedtime routine

21.30 bottle

22.00 sleep

If I want to put her to bed earlier what do i do about the 21.30 bottle?  Will she wake up even earlier then?

[RosieL]

I think it would be worth trying a dream feed. She is obvious ready for sleep earlier since she is falling asleep on you. I would do the bed time routine a half hour earlier, at first, then slowly move it as early as she is sleepy. At 3 mo that was 8:39 for us, then he slowly got sleepier earlier and earlier until it was 7-7:30ish.

A dream feed is when you pick up the sleeping baby and feed her while she is still asleep. My friend swears by this and it worked really well for us too for a little while, until I started pumping. We would start bedtime routine at 7:30 at that point, including a nursing. Then when I s ready for bed around 10:30 I would feed him, and he pretty much ate while. He was asleep and went right back into his crib when he was done. In your case with a bottle you may not even need to pick her up, she could eat while in the crib. I stopped doing this only because I started pumping right before bed instead, and letting him wake up between 12 and 2 for a feed.

[clairebear3]

Well because of circumstances today her routine will be a bit different anyway.  I fed her at 5.30ish this morning while she was asleep and I had great success at getting her to drink (see under), then 8.30am, then every 3 hours so it will end up at 8.30 tonight being the last feed so I will start her bedtime routing around 8.10 and it should be really well timed for her going to sleep.  I'm not sure if I can give her a bottle in the crib though because she always needs to burp...Should I just see when she wakes of give her another feed when she's asleep, what would be a good time?

Tomorrow I am taking her to the doctors.  I just can't get any milk in her!  She has always drunk over the max amount of ml that they say for her weight and now suddenly it's under the minimum.  every time I try with the bottle and puts her fingers in there as well.  She just doesn't seem hungry.  At her 8.30am feed I could only get her to take 65ml!  Normally it's between 150-180!!!  She is biting a lot on the bottle and drooling but I can't see any teeth.  I'm going to get her weighed just to make sure but this can't be helping the sleeping troubles.  The only bottle she gulps down is the bedtime bottle with rice flakes (vanilla) but I can't put them in every bottle...

Maybe it's just the rolling keeping her up?  Or her teethior belly waking her first?  When I went to sleep last night she was laying on her right side against the crib bars.  at some point she woke and I tried to help her get on her side, then later she had got onto her belly but was sleeping, then she woke freaked out that she was on her belly.  I try shifting her along so that she's not too close to the bars (she wants to be in foetal position) but that wakes her up.  I held her until 5.30 this am then put her in her bed to get her bottle, of course then she sleeps!  Gave her the bottle when she was asleep and then she slept until 7.30 when I put her in bed with me for an hour...

[RosieL]

It could also be that she has a lot of mental development going on right now, which is supposed to contribute to restless sleep!

I don't know about the milk intake. I have the opposite problem...when he is with grandma he will eat 8 oz at a time.,,way more than normal I *think*. But since I don't really know how much he drinks from me, i can't say for sure if she is over feeding him.

Sigh.

Good luck tonight. After four days completely out of our routine we are hoping to get back into a rhythm this week.

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by RosieL 
After four days completely out of our routine we are hoping to get back into a rhythm this week.

How did it go for you last night?

Well the last two days here where somewhat better...The first night I started her bedtime routine at 8.10pm, last bottle at 8.30pm and she slept until around 1.30am, I think I gave her her paci and she went back to sleep until 2.30am when I gave her a bottle and then she slept until 6am when I popped her in bed with me and she slept until 8am, it was great to get some consecutive hours of sleep!  Last night she went down a bit earlier, last bottle at 8.15pm but I ended up giving her another bottle at 12.30am, then she woke at 4am-ish, I rocked her to sleep but if I put her back into her crib (it's an awkward position for me and her arms are always flailing (sp?) ) she would wake up so I put her into bed with me, then mosquito's woke us up at 7am!

She has stopped rolling around the crib in the night and i'm not sure whether one of two things helped.  She now sleeps in PJ's with feet and a slightly thicker sleep bag, maybe she was cold?  The other is a long shot, I have been drinking decaf coffee made in a pot because our espresso machine was broken.  A couple of weeks ago I fixed it and have been using decaf pads to make my coffee but because of the sort of machine it is you can never completely get rid of all the 'normal' coffee grounds.  Maybe this tiny amount of caffeine was freaking her out?  It certainly looked like she was hopped up on something!

My best friend has two children and she was telling me about someone she new who has twins the same age who just slept 8-8 and about how this is the moment that babies go down to 4-5 bottles a day.  Then a feel like such a fool because DD still has 6 bottles and used to sleep 10-6 and now she's back awake all night again!  Pfff those babies must of read some book my DD didn't!

The doc checked her ears, throat and teeth and there was nothing going on so he said if it hasn't resolved itself and she hasn't started drinking more in a week to bring a urine sample.  I had her weighed on 29/8 and as off yesterday 3/9 she hadn't gained.  She's a really good weight though but I just want my hungry baby back!  Maybe if I cut down to 5 bottles she will drink more in one go?  Maybe she's not hungry at all at night and I should just try rocking her back to sleep instead of offering the bottle?

[RosieL]

Sounds like you had a great night! String a few of those together and it'll be wonderful. :) 

We had a pretty good night too. Slept from 7:30 to 1:30 with one minor wake needing paci. Nursed, then slept to 5AM. Nursed then to 6AM, so I brought him into bed. Two four-ish hour stretches? Yes please and thank you! :) 

About the feeding: Odin is eating 5 and sometimes 6 4oz bottles between 8 and 5PM, so I have no idea on volume. I think he's eating a lot, but the pediatrician isn't worried and he's not spitting up or cranky, so we're going with it. Just means that I have to pump pretty frequently. 

I have a friend whose twins slept all night at an early age too. I just don't compare to my baby. It's not worth the stress of trying to compare, I think. 

If Odin doesn't fall quickly back asleep from a paci or his lovey, I nurse him. He almost always drinks a lot, which signals to me that he was at least mildly hungry. If I nurse him and he only drinks a little before falling asleep, I take it as a signal that he wasn't that hungry, just needed help back to sleep. In the past I'd start asking DH to take those times when I thought he wasn't asleep, but that's happening less now. He always drinks fully when I nurse him at night, or else he just falls back with his paci. 

How are diapers for you at night? We figured out that odin doesn't like to feel wet in the slightest (who would?), so we change him at each nursing wakeup and double up on the inserts. If you're using disposables, are they absorbent enough for the full night?

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by RosieL 
How are diapers for you at night? We figured out that odin doesn't like to feel wet in the slightest (who would?), so we change him at each nursing wakeup and double up on the inserts. If you're using disposables, are they absorbent enough for the full night?

We use a good sposie at night, although i'm planning on starting CDing soon.  It doesn't seem to bother her too much.  The sposie soaks up so much it's unreal...

Originally Posted by RosieL 

About the feeding: Odin is eating 5 and sometimes 6 4oz bottles between 8 and 5PM, so I have no idea on volume. I think he's eating a lot, but the pediatrician isn't worried and he's not spitting up or cranky, so we're going with it. Just means that I have to pump pretty frequently. 

Astrid drinks about 1000ml a day, she never used to spit up but sometimes now about an hour after her bottle she will spit up, mostly saliva with a tiny bit of milk, not sure why.

So I had another really lousy night followed by the best night in a long time!

The first night Astrid was back awake looking for her paci and every time I gave it to her she would grab my fingers and spit in back out etc, this went on and on until I picked her up but I couldn't get her back into her crib asleep so I ended up putting her into bed with me (which I said I wouldn't do again!) until 5.30.  Then after her bottle she started making the noises that she does when she wants her paci but because she had just drunk her bottle I though it couldn't do any harm to just not react for a few mins (she wasn't crying).  I didn't make eye contact, I just laid in the bed trying to think about something else.  Within about 2 minutes she was asleep!  We tried it last night and each time she put herself back to sleep after about a minute of yawning and lots of lalalala noises.  I started her bedtime routine at 7.30, bottle at 8.00, asleep in crib by 8.10.  At 9.00 she woke up startled and cried so we rocked her back to sleep and at 4.45 I woke up thinking it was much later than it was because I had slept so well, and started getting the bottle ready so she actually had it a bit early, then she slept until 8.20 this morning!  I'm only aware of her waking up one other time where my husband and I kept really still and tried not to laugh at each other at the noises and then she fell back asleep, miracle!

She didn't want to nap this morning though, she was cranky but that could be because her gums are so sore.  It's still better to have to carry her around all morning than be up all night!
 

[RosieL]

Sounds wonderful! 

Odin recently started spitting up exactly as you describe. Just a little, a while after he eats. 

We also had a good night. Yesterday he didn't nap well at daycare, so I put him down early. Bath, massage, PJs at 6:30. A little fussing around in crib, then nursed him down at 7. He woke up at 10 with a very wet diaper and I nursed him back down. I braced myself for a rough night because if he wakes early, he usually wakes all night. I woke up to mild noises at 4AM thinking "wow!" I was about to nurse him but thought "I wonder if he's fine." Gave him his lovey and he went back to sleep. I woke up again at 6 with rock-hard boobs and actually woke him from a sleep to nurse. Well, actually, I woke DH up to get him because I couldn't move without boobs hurting. Then he slept again til 8 (whoops, I ignored 7AM alarm).

Let's hope this is the start of more wonderful nights! I really need to get the night diaper situation fixed. I have night dipes (happy hempy fitteds with hemp inserts and a cover), but they are repelling for some reason. So I need to strip and try again.  

[clairebear3]

Oh dear, I probably should not have come here bragging about that great night because it only happened once!  Oh well, back to the drawing board!   I'm just hope hope hoping it's all teeth related!

Now she's back to trying to sleep on her side but getting too close the bars to roll and getting stuck and flopping around.

On the upside she has just started blowing bubbles/raspberries and it's adorable