Baby won't nap, everyone suggesting CIO please help me! - Page 3

[erinsuzy]

Be careful about crying-it-out. I regret and have much guilt over doing that with my first son. I was a new mom and terrified of all sorts of things and SIDS- I thought that if he slept in our bed he would suffocate and die. He did not like sleeping in a crib, even next to our bed and he cried a lot. We put him in his own room by 5 months and used the ferber method. We wanted him to learn "to sooth himself". Now that he is three, he is very cautious, co-dependant, skittish and he still refuses to sleep in his bed (even with his brother in the room). He sleeps on the couch and we have to sit next to him until he falls sleep before we leave. He'll wake about 2 in the morning crying and run into our room and sleep in our bed. My two younger sons I let co-sleep until they were @ 7 months and I practiced attachment parenting. They sleep really well in their own beds, and they don't get scared. I can't help but think that the CIO shaped my oldest son and that is why he gets real stressed easily. Then a few days ago I came across this article: http://discovermagazine.com/2010/jun/15-brain-switches-that-can-turn-mental-illness-on-off   and now I am even more depressed about it. I tell new parents about my regrets of "not following my instincts"...  which is the best advice that I have learned, the hard way, to use.     

[RosieL]

Originally Posted by clairebear3 

Oh dear, I probably should not have come here bragging about that great night because it only happened once!  Oh well, back to the drawing board!   I'm just hope hope hoping it's all teeth related!

Now she's back to trying to sleep on her side but getting too close the bars to roll and getting stuck and flopping around.

On the upside she has just started blowing bubbles/raspberries and it's adorable
 

Me too. Lol. He had a great night, and a good night, then we've had two nights (I think?) of pretty horrid waking. Once every hour to maybe two hours. :( Even in bed with us, he's so restless. And he's rubbing his eyes a LOT. I suspect the weather change could be affecting his eyes (drier), but I don't know. So hard to figure out.

And Odin, too, is now blowing bubbles and raspberries and totally entertaining himself with it. Pretty awesome.

[RosieL]

erinsuzy - I'm so sorry for your stress and regret over the sleep training. :( Thank you very much for sharing your story and perspective. I feel like I need to be reminded all the time to follow my instincts. I had started to think "Maybe crying it out isn't as cruel as it feels..." a month or so ago and I felt like I needed to get a splash in the face. 

[RosieL]

Tonight I think I started the bedtime routine too early (at 6:30). I started it because he had fallen asleep on our evening walk, but I should have waited until 7. He just fussed and rolled around and complained for a half hour. 

Eventually, after nurse-fuss-nurse-fuss, I picked him up and held him uprigth against my chest. He pretty much never cuddles me in this position. But tonight he gently let his head rest on my shoulder and slowly drifted off to sleep with the blink...blink.........blink.............that is so sweet. 

DH is out of town, so I'm pretty sure that at his first wake-up I'll take DS into bed. No fun being alone in bed! :)

[clairebear3]

Im so tired, so tired!

I thought I had cracked it 2 nights ago.  I had read that rice cereal is very hard to digest and lays heavy on the tummy so I didn't give DD any before bed.  I also unplugged the night-light we were using incase it was waking her up more.  She slept from 8pm until 5am with me popping the paci in twice.  Then she had a bottle and slept until 8.30am, it was heaven and I thought 'problem solved it was the rice cereal'.  Last night I did exactly the same thing and we were up more or less non stop from 3am.  I put her in bed with me but she wants to lay on her side all the time literally rubbing her face on the matrass.  I'm not sure if she wants to move the paci around in her mouth (although two docs have told me she's not teething) or if her nose felt blocked or something.  I get zero sleep when she's in the bed but the only way to get her to sleep is to hold her in my arms and sit up.  I'm not sure how we can have two good nights, then do exactly the same thing and it's terrible again.  One night it started at 23.06!  I had only been asleep for one hour.

My last resort for tonight is scratch mittens.  Her body feels warm at night but her hands are blocks of ice.  I know if my feet are really cold I can't sleep.  The room is 66f, she has a bodysuit with short sleeves on, a pjama in the same material, long sleeves with feet and a sleeping bag, no sleeves comparable to sweatshirt material.  This should be enough shouldn't it?
 

[avismama24]

Hi there. Your post caught my eye, as a doula I have been working with a few families lately regarding sleep. Please, please trust your instinct and don't go with CIO if that doesn't feel right to you. You know your baby better than anyone so only try sleeping techniques that feel good to you!

My recommendation and the program I use and always recommend is Kim West, The Sleep Lady. She offers a very sequntial night by night approach to get your child to sleep successfully on their own without letting them cry it out. Feel free to contact me for more info as I use her program often. Best of luck!

[RosieL]

I read West's book, an it's another form of CIO, IMHO.

[avismama24]

Hi Rosie L.

What makes you feel it is another form of CIO? I have seen this program be very sucessful for attachment parent's, myself included, and I have no tolerance for crying. I would really appreciate your thoughts?

Thanks again!
 

[RosieL]

IIRC the fisrt chapters repeat over and over that this isn't CIO but "there will be crying." Crying while parents are standing next to the crib is still crying!

[RosieL]

How's it going?

Something cracked in me, and I held my baby boy while he cried, and I sang him back to sleep instead of nursed twice last night. I felt calm and okay while he cried in my arms. But this morning I'm not sure why I did that, and whether I'm okay with it. Turmoil in my head. 

[LivingSky]

I can't remember if I posted in this thread a while ago or not, so sorry if I'm repeating myself!

My DS slept relatively well most of the time - we co-sleep with him starting out in the crib beside the bed, and moving into the bed at his first night waking. Sometimes he woke up two or three times a night, sometimes ten. I definitely notice that the ten-times-a-night nights coincided with teething, a cold, or a new motor or mental development.

I got the No Cry Sleep Solution book at my baby shower and honestly, never bothered to read it. Recently I decided that I'd like a bit more consistency to our nighttimes and to aim for more of the two or three wakeups per night nights, so I read the book and had DH read it. We realized we had been letting DS go to sleep WAY too late for him because he seemed like he was not sleepy enough to go to bed - his bedtime had been anywhere from 8pm to 10pm depending on his day. Now we've instituted a bedtime routine starting at 6:30, going until 7:30 and he is almost always asleep by about 7:35. He sleeps longer and better with fewer wakeups since we moved his bedtime up and made it consistent. He's also napping better. It has also helped to really watch him at night and see if he is awake and starting to cry, or just making annoyed sleep noises because he doesn't have a boob in his mouth. I was shocked at how much noise he makes without actually waking up!

Anyway, I recommend the book a lot. It's really helped make our nighttimes a lot more peaceful. I honestly thought I was doing okay the way it was before, but getting a 5-7 hour stretch of uninterrupted sleep at the beginning of the night is HEAVEN! It's not every night yet but it's a lot more often than it was.

Hope you all get sleep soon!!

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by LivingSky 

I got the No Cry Sleep Solution book at my baby shower and honestly, never bothered to read it. Recently I decided that I'd like a bit more consistency to our nighttimes and to aim for more of the two or three wakeups per night nights, so I read the book and had DH read it.

I have the No Cry Sleep Solution too, some of it was really useful but I felt it really concentrated on nursing a lot, I'm EPing.  I start DD's bedtime routine at about 19.15 and she's normally down and asleep at 20.00 maybe that's still too late.  The thing is we're on a 3 hour bottle schedule during the day, she has one bottle at 17.30, then the next one at 19.45 which is already less than three hours so if I want to put her to bed sooner do I have to make her whole schedule earlier or just the last bottle?  Maybe she will drink less then?  Astrid doesn't have a night feed any more so it's important that she gets in her 34oz during the day.

Originally Posted by RosieL 

Something cracked in me, and I held my baby boy while he cried, and I sang him back to sleep instead of nursed twice last night. I felt calm and okay while he cried in my arms. But this morning I'm not sure why I did that, and whether I'm okay with it. Turmoil in my head. 

I understand!  Sometimes in the middle of the night it's so hard to think rationally and remember what you planned to do in the day.  Does Odin have a paci or not?

Things have been going generally better here.  We went through a couple of weeks where each night I changed at least one thing, different PJ's, body with long sleeves, different sleep bag, night light out, no rice cereal, extra rice cereal, tilting the bed etc etc.  The problem just seems to be that madam wants to sleep on her side with her paci but very many times in the night she looses her balance and flops back hard onto her back and waked up, rolls onto her belly and wakes up, looses the paci (usually under our bed in the dark somewhere ) so I have to replace the paci and help her roll onto her side.  There have been some really good nights but last night was a bad one, although I think a lot of it was my fault!  We went to an open day at a play group in the morning and she couldn't sleep so she missed her morning nap, and I had a hard time getting her to nap in the afternoon.  We have been experimenting with white noise, using a fan and I think it may help, even if it's just to block out DH's snoring and the like!  I had rigged up a blanket to keep the fan off her and had it pointing another way but I had read a sleep pamphlet from the health center about absolutely not letting little ones get too warm and it freaked me out a bit so I put a short sleeved body on.  One of the times I woke up I felt her head, ears and in her neck and she was quite cold so I put her in bed with me.  This generally doesn't work out very well, I'm not sure if it's because I'm not nursing but she smells the milk on me (I leak like mad) but she never sleeps very well in our bed.  It lasted from about 3-5am and then she got really unhappy so I had to hold her and pace the boards with her.  By this time she is fully awake and blowing bubbles!  Eventually got her swaddled and back to sleep but had to hold her until 7.15am.

The health visitor would probably think it's a really bad idea but I do also put her to bed with socks on her hands because they just turn into ice cubes in the night.  I am so worried about her over heating but the last time she consistently slept great before this regression was when we had a heat wave!

If last night was an exception I will be quite happy though.  I have gotten so used to the rolling over thing I couldn't tell you how many times I lean over to help her or put her paci in, it just blurs together and sometimes I'm not sure if I have done anything at all!  One night the paci had fallen out but she was still asleep so I laid it on the night stand, the next time I remember helping her she had she paci back and I have no recollection of doing it!  Sometimes I think I shouldn't react straight away but it has become so automatic and just seems easier...
 

[avismama24]

Hi Rosie L.

I will try to find in in the archives, but MCD had a great article about allowing our children to cry, while we hold them....their is research that they need to do this, they have limited ways to express themselves and crying, much to our dismay is the main one! The important thing is that you were with your son, you were holding him, supporting him, and loving him, and actually respecting him and his crying/frustration. IMO you have nothing to feel guilty about, but of course you have to ultimately do what feels right to you, but just wanted to pass that tid bit along. I will look for the article.

[LivingSky]

clairebear3 - how old is your little one again? K went through a phase where he HAD to sleep with something on his hands or else they were ice cubes. And he was such a big guy that finding mitts or something to fit on his hands was really hard! But I definitely think he slept better when his hands were warm. I still find he needs to be a bit overdressed at night to sleep well - he usually sleeps in a footless sleeper and a sleep sack over that. His hands don't seem to get cold anymore though - finally!

[RosieL]

Three nights ago, I nursed DS every four hours, rocked him while he cried in arms between the four hours.

Well, the night after he slept 3h, 4h, 3h.

The night after that he slept 3, 3, then woke up a couple short times so I fed him "early", then 3.

Last night a solid 3.5, 4, 3.

Color me shocked?

[llwr]

I didn't read many of the replies.

I hope things are going better for you.  Neither of mine were good sleepers, so I do understand it can be really hard.

I worked really hard with my first and did see some improvement, but it's hard to say if working so hard was better than just waiting.  My 2nd seemed to change more just with development.  From 2 weeks on she would take only 30 min or less naps alone no matter what I tried.  Then at about 6 mos, she magically started napping 2+hours at a time (until the next regression, then she'd pass through and go back to 2 hrs).

I do really like the no cry sleep solution. 

It can be surprisingly hard to get things done while wearing a baby, but they would sleep when I did that.  If she's old enough yet, you do have much better use of your arms when wearing on your back. 

The first year is one change and regression after another.  4, 9, and 12 mos typically have bad regressions.  Mine didn't really get a good routine with consistent sleep patterns till after a year when they were on one nap a day.

People who advocate CIO make me really mad.  I know it works for some people, but I think it's dangerous and disrespectful.  Would they like to be treated like that?  Would they treat another adult like that?  My personal opinion is that it should only be a very last desperation resort when you know your baby well enough to know they can handle it.  I feel like my kids, my 2nd especially, would be really hurt by that kind of withdrawal.  However, I do think it's important to remember that some kids do cry before they go to sleep, and that some do better without a parent in a room.  It's our responsibility to know our kids well enough to figure out if they fall into those categories.  Crying because "I don't want to sleep" and "I need you" might need different responses.  I agree with PP to not talk to other people about sleep. 

Again, I hope it's going better.

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by LivingSky 

clairebear3 - how old is your little one again? K went through a phase where he HAD to sleep with something on his hands or else they were ice cubes.

She's 5 1/2 mos.  She sleeps in a long sleeved body suit, pajamas with feet on, socks on her hands and a sleep sack.  Granted it's not the thickest sleep sack.  That should be more than enough shouldn't it?  I know they always say babes should sleep with one more layer of clothing on than you but DH was in bed with just boxers on under the duvet and was perfectly happy.  I had a small top on (for keeping the breast pads in place!) long sleeved pajamas and the duvet up to my chin.  If my neck was open I immediately felt cold.  The room was 66f, I guess I'm just cold blooded and maybe she is too!

Originally Posted by llwr 
People who advocate CIO make me really mad.  I know it works for some people, but I think it's dangerous and disrespectful.  Would they like to be treated like that?  Would they treat another adult like that? 

I feel just the same.  Unfortunately there is no-one I know IRL who is against CIO or who is the slightest bit AP.  I don't even tell most of my friends that I BW, have started CD or a bit of EC because they would think I was loopy.  I'm sure if god had intended us to ignore our babies cries who wouldn't of made it sound so dreadful to our ears!

Originally Posted by RosieL 

Color me shocked?

I bet you feel better after a night like that!  Last night the rocking and rolling started at about 1am.  Normally I help her onto her side and give her her paci but she just kept loosing it and rolling around and wouldn't settle so I put her into out bed.  My goodness it's like trying to sleep with a dog in the bed with bacon tied to his tail!  There's no cosying up to each other, just getting whacked in the eye

[RosieL]

Sometimes Odin cuddles up and sleeps still, other times its as you describe. I think it has a lot to do with growth spurts and teething. And brain spurts. (Cognitive development happens in bursts too.)

I thought you might appreciate this pic:

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by RosieL 


I thought you might appreciate this pic:
 

Of course after I said that...DD came into bed with me around 4am and slept like a log spooned up to me, first time ever!  Unfortunately I didn't sleep because I really wasn't very comfortable and my neck was cold.  I think if she keeps coming into our bed I will have to get a turtle neck!  See where she gets her cold blood from?  I kind of worry about how close her face is to mine if she's facing me, that she will be breathing in my 'dead' air...

[RosieL]

Awe, sweet cuddles! I have had to get used to long sleeve PJs, since I keep the blanket at my waist if DS is in bed. I really dislike pjs, but I dislike cold even more.

I'm dream feeding at the moment, after a 7-11.20pm stretch. He complained a couple times and I went into the room and flipped him from front to back. But no crying and no picking him up since putting him down awake at 6:45. Fingers crossed he goes another long stretch now...