Scan confirms breech presentation « Back to Group Discussions

[Faliciagayle]

Before I completely freak out, please someone reassure me about my body and baby etc etc etc.  I've said all the "right things" to moms in this situation before, and now here I am and I could use some hand holding.

NYS requirements for HB insist on an OB consultation.  I have not had any scans yet in this pregnancy (I'm 35 weeks).  Let me briefly say that this visit confirmed for me our decisions to pursue midwifery care and home birth.  Anyway.

He (OB) did a scan (after admonishing me for not having any U/S up until this point), and found that baby is breech - which is what I and my MW have been suspecting.  DD (LO1) was breech till 36 or 38, I don't remember, and she turned on her own.  

I've emailed my MW to get her opinion on what I should be doing.  The Dr wants to schedule an ECV already, but I'd like to try pulsatilla, acupuncture, chiro, etc.  It is my understanding that HBMWs here are not permitted to attend breech HBs.  Not sure if I would be "allowed" a trial of labor at the hospital if baby remains breech until delivery, or if I can attempt a vaginal breech birth.

Feeling very emotional and wrung out at the moment.  Positive thoughts would be welcomed :)

[MadiMamacita]

35 weeks is still plenty of time for that babe to get into position! how long will they "let" you wait it out?

[Ava's Mama]

I agree, 35 weeks is plenty of time to get baby to turn.  Have you looked into to an osteopath as well?  Sending hugs your way and sending vibes to baby to turn soon!

[Faliciagayle]

I agree there is plenty of time for baby to turn - but the laws around home birth have gotten tighter in New York since I gave birth to my son (who presented head down the whole time it mattered).  I'm waiting to hear from my MW how long I can wait without her getting into trouble.

[Carlin]

I was under the impression that ECV shouldn't be done until after 37 weeks at the earliest as 1) it can cause fetal distress requiring immediate delivery, and 2) if done too early, baby can just flip back anyways.

I think if in your position, I'd really push to wait as long as possible, using the fact that your DD turned at 38 weeks to buy some extra time if you need too. Hopefully this one will turn too, and you can have your homebirth. 

I don't know if it helps, but in Canada, they are no longer recommending automatic c-section for breech. http://www.sogc.org/media/advisories-20090617a_e.asp If it comes down to it, maybe there' s an OB around who's still comfortable attending breech births - maybe the 'finding your tribe' for your area could help find one.

Anyways, sending you "turn baby, turn!" vibes so hopefully none of this is necessary!

[Monkey Keeper]

Really, you don't have to make a decision until you are in labor! I.e. you can always claim that you thought baby flipped vertex and the breech presentation during labor was a surprise at that point and head in if that's the case. I have BTDT with a late term unstable lie, and it is no fun. I cannot imagine the added level of uncertainty when it comes to potentially risking out of homebirth.  Still, I would have waited until spontaneous labor to decide what to do.

Last time, DS presented  breech around 34w. I pursued chiro and massage to turn him and consulted with an MFM who would do the ECV at 37w on the nose. An u/s at that point showed DS head down but we did see him head up at least once more closer to the 39w mark. Even my OB said that it was a good thing we didn't bother with the version since he kept flip flopping all on his own accord. 

This time, this baby was totally transverse/breech at 32w and is all over the place. No one is even talking ECV till around the 39w mark. And I would also potentially have the option of a vaginal breech should I ask my OB to transfer my care to one of two who are experienced with it. I'm trying to take the lesson I learned last time in letting go and put it into practice this time--the stress of the what-ifs was so awful in those last few weeks.

My advice is to come up with your plan and then just rest assured that baby will do what it needs to do to be born the way it is supposed to. Easier said than done, I know..

[dmpkmom]

Boy I've been here, minus home birth plans (but I had been all bradley-ed to the hilt).  Personally if I had to do it all over again, I'd go for the Webster technique, spinning baby ideas (their website) and maybe some swimming/flipping/handstands for the next two weeks and then try the ECV at 37 weeks. Since its your second, it might be more likely to work as things are more stretched out. Then if that failed, I would refuse the c/s schedule until I felt pretty certain that labor was about to get going (mucous plug, bowels, crabby as all get out, etc). You'll get huge push back that they must schedule but that is for their convenience to some degree and they'll throw you the risk of footling/prolapse cord if you are in full labor but I kinda think a mom knows when she's getting very close. There was recently a story of a mom that delivered breech twins road side. She had both footling and prolapse but all turned out okay. MW had her deliver w/ her bottom up to keep pressure off.  If you delivered late last time, I think that's more info you can use to hold off on setting a c/s date.

OH..if you have an ICAN, ask them if any OBs in the area are breech friendly. There's a handful.

[Monkey Keeper]

Originally Posted by dmpkmom 
Then if that failed, I would refuse the c/s schedule until I felt pretty certain that labor was about to get going (mucous plug, bowels, crabby as all get out, etc). You'll get huge push back that they must schedule but that is for their convenience to some degree and they'll throw you the risk of footling/prolapse cord if you are in full labor but I kinda think a mom knows when she's getting very close. There was recently a story of a mom that delivered breech twins road side. She had both footling and prolapse but all turned out okay. MW had her deliver w/ her bottom up to keep pressure off.

One thing to remember when weighing the risk of prolapse is that it can happen any time baby is not engage prior to ROM. It's entirely possible with a vertex baby! And what you do is the same no matter what. I found that comforting when trying to decide whether to wait for labor or schedule a c/s. Yes, it's more common with a non-vertex baby (I think most common with transverse lie?) but it happens with vertex babies too. We all should be aware that if we don't know if our babies are engaged, then we should know how to handle a potential prolapse with PROM.

[help007]

Originally Posted by Monkey Keeper 

we should know how to handle a potential prolapse with PROM.

This was part of my long 'emergency' discussion with my HB midwife: she has actually experienced a cord prolapse with a previous client. Husband called the ambulance while mama got on her knees with her chest on the floor. Midwife used her hand to keep the baby from pressing on the cord/birth canal the entire time from getting mama onto the stretcher, into the ambulance, and all the way until they were at the hospital, ready for the emergency Cesarean (they did cover her bottom half with a sheet during the transfer). Everybody came out very healthy, and one of the obvious situations when interventions are welcome and undoubtedly necessary.

[border stories]

My baby has been breech nearly the whole third trimester, I am now 37+ weeks.  Last week My midwife and I spoke of this and we contacted the hospital who said they will only do a ECV at 38 weeks or after due to the high rate of babies who flip around again before this point.

Anyway, that would be my LAST resort.    I am in the UK so different policies.  Which is good to know I think because then you can see that one OB's opinion isn't the definitive guide to breech presentation.  I went to get acupuncture last week and the guy there was worried too that it was too early to use moxibustin to turn the baby!  He gave me acupuncture for my own health and left off the baby!  He sent me home with the moxibustion sticks and showed me how to use them.  When I came home I was still kinda anxious about getting the baby shifted, but was on my own and didn't see how I could heat the points on my little toes where he had directed without my dh to help, I decided to just try one foot and then the other.  I did it myself for about five minutes before giving up in frustration!  I did some inversions (Spinning babies website) and went for a bath.  In the bath the baby turned head down :)  And is there still!

Don't feel bad or worried, my midwife although she feels breech presentations can be unpredictable said that she has worked with Mary Cronk (breech specialist, just google) and her guidelines were to see how labour happened - if the mother spontaneously went into labour and had good dialation then leave her be and prepare for a breech delivery as the body  was working fine.  If spontaneous labour didn't happen or dialation was super slow or non existent then might be a reason for a c-section.  Not automatic for breech pre. by any means.

[MIrandaM]

Originally Posted by border stories 

My When I came home I was still kinda anxious about getting the baby shifted, but was on my own and didn't see how I could heat the points on my little toes where he had directed without my dh to help, I decided to just try one foot and then the other.  I did it myself for about five minutes before giving up in frustration!  I did some inversions (Spinning babies website) and went for a bath.  In the bath the baby turned head down :)  And is there still!

Wow Borderstories, that is really cool.  I know it sounds weird, but I'm just curious, which 'way' did he turn?  Down one of your sides?  A real somersault?  I've never really been sure of how the actual 'flip' works :)

FaliciaGayle, I hope you find something that works.  Sending you turning baby vibes :)  My brother and his wife felt like the rebozo was very useful for them to relax her uterus and give the baby space to turn. 
 

[Carson]

I have a crazy baby inside who turned from head down to breech and back again. For me, it felt like full on somersaults, actually it was a bit uncomfortable and almost sharp as the head settled back in my pelvis. But I definitely felt a little hard round head up and after the movements, its squishy baby parts.

[Monkey Keeper]

Most of the times mine have turned, I have been asleep. It's been uncomfortable enough to wake me up, and once I had to get on hands and knees to alleviate the discomfort. But I have TONS of room--my chiro said she never fails to be amazed by the space that baby has in there. She said you'd think I was very tall (which isn't the case as I am not quite 5'6").

The most recent flip I remember felt like a big clockwise swirl.

[Faliciagayle]

I went in for some Chiro tonight and will go back again on Friday (Webster Technique).  The baby's not engaged at all (not surprising) and is laying head under right ribs, tush near my left hip.  The left side of my pelvis/body was so tight the Chiro couldn't adjust it at all.  

I'm not entirely worried about the baby turning, I'm more frustrated with being possibly forced into a system that I've managed to successfully avoid for nearly all three pregnancies/births.  I moved up my next prenatal to next Wednesday and I plan on writing out a bunch of questions/thoughts/etc.  I spoke to my MW yesterday and she said she was "confident" babe would turn.  The biggest issue if she attends an at home breech birth is the loss of her license.  My main concern now is if she needs U/S confirmation of a head down baby to attend my birth - which would make it harder to have a "surprise" breech presentation when the time comes  ;)

The inversions feel terrible and the Chiro isn't convinced of their efficacy.... so I'm not sure what to do about those.  I'll just take it one day at a time, keep on with my affirmations, keep up the Chiro - that is till I run out of money - and remain positive!

and OY the doctor.  I know he's backed my MW for years so he must be somewhat supportive of the whole endeavor, but he waited till my belly was exposed and covered in U/S goo to ask "what made me think HB was a good idea?"  

[border stories]

It was like a slow turn for me - I felt the head at the top then could see it move to my left side so the bottom was at the right (transverse is so not a good feeling) and then sort of pop, the head was down.... so more of a swivel.  Not a sumersault, I can't see how than would be...... :)

[Faliciagayle]

Baby turned!   Chiro, pulsatilla, spinning babies and positive affirmations got babe into an oblique position, today my MW pretty easily moved babe's head into my pelvis - which was confirmed by a scan.  Woo!  No more scans needed.  

[MissE]

That is fantastic news faliciagayle. We have an ultrasound on friday and i'm pretty sure babygirl is head down. If not..i'd be hanging off my couch again . I sure wish our insurance would pay for chiro adjustments. I have never been to one.

[Carlin]

Yay baby! You must be so relieved!

[mole]

That's great FaliciaGayle! Glad you were able to be so proactive and that the fetus is cooperating with your birthing plans :).

[border stories]

fab!  So glad to hear this :)  happy Birthing :) xoox