Its not just a personal choice - Page 2

[Magali]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 


I disagree.
Choosing not to vax is your choice. But you have a responsibility to refrain from exposing unvaxed kids to newborns or kids with compromised immune systems. You have a responsibility to the community to make sure other moms know you don't vaccinate.
And we all have a responsibility to keep sick kids away from others to prevent the spread of disease

No, if other moms want to gather vaccine status info that's on them.  I doubt I'd want to be besties with someone who quizzed me on vax status before a playdate anyways.

[Magali]

Oh and OP...  it is a personal choice.  It really, really is.  Even if my reason is "I don't want to and you can't make me".  Hey, I don't even have to give you a reason...cause it's none of your business.

[lovebeingamomma]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

I don't worry about this at all. Healthy unvaxed kids have a immune system that hasn't been breached so it works optimally. Coming into contact with "germy" kids probably won't cause illness. JMHO based on my experience as a mom of two older unvaxed kiddos!

Thank you maybe I'll worry a little less this winter :)  Truth be told they didn't get ANY of the fevers/illness's all my friends kids were getting last winter.  But I still worried!

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma 

I care more about the health of my own children then your children, period. 

While I find this sentiment to be beyond comprehension personally, I appreciate your honesty.  Thank you for telling the rest of the world you don't care about their children, or whether your kids get theirs sick or cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases.  I really do appreciate that you aren't pussyfooting around or hiding behind "no such thing as herd immunity."  Thank you.

[NoraFlood]

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

While I find this sentiment to be beyond comprehension personally, I appreciate your honesty.  Thank you for telling the rest of the world you don't care about their children, or whether your kids get theirs sick or cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases.  I really do appreciate that you aren't pussyfooting around or hiding behind "no such thing as herd immunity."  Thank you.

Yep, I appreciate the honesty.

And hey, it's not like we live in a society or anything, right? Survival of the fittest! Screw everyone else! What a beautiful sentiment, gentle mamas.

[lovebeingamomma]

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

While I find this sentiment to be beyond comprehension personally, I appreciate your honesty.  Thank you for telling the rest of the world you don't care about their children, or whether your kids get theirs sick or cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases.  I really do appreciate that you aren't pussyfooting around or hiding behind "no such thing as herd immunity."  Thank you.

Huh?  When did I say I don't care about other children??  I said I care MORE about my own children.  Any mother who doesn't I would say is crazy!  But hey, if you want to put words into my mouth go for it...

P.S., every child in my community benefits from my choice, my children are healthier than any of my friends kids who vax. 

Edited by lovebeingamomma - 8/15/12 at 4:40pm

[Sharlla]

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma 

I care more about the health of my own children then your children, period. 

yep. im not going to put my kids at risk to "benefit" others.  Im a mom to my kids and their welfare is priority #1 above all others

[pek64]

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

While I find this sentiment to be beyond comprehension personally, I appreciate your honesty.  Thank you for telling the rest of the world you don't care about their children, or whether your kids get theirs sick or cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases.  I really do appreciate that you aren't pussyfooting around or hiding behind "no such thing as herd immunity."  Thank you.

Your asking all moms to place your children's welfare above their own children's welfare. What makes your children so entitled?

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma 

Huh?  When did I say I don't care about other children??  I said I care MORE about my own children.  Any mother who doesn't I would say is crazy!  But hey, if you want to put words into my mouth go for it...

P.S., every child in my community benefits from my choice, my children are healthier than any of my friends kids who vax. 

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma 

Huh?  When did I say I don't care about other children??  I said I care MORE about my own children.  Any mother who doesn't I would say is crazy!  But hey, if you want to put words into my mouth go for it...

P.S., every child in my community benefits from my choice, my children are healthier than any of my friends kids who vax. 

"Survival of the fittest," as a motto doesn't leave much room for caring about the less fit.  I care about my child, of course, beyond all others... however if I found that she'd passed measles to a newborn baby who then died or was subsequently brain damaged from it, I could never forgive myself.  Perhaps believing that child to be "less fit" makes you moms feel more comfortable about that idea.  

The health of your children has little to do with what germs they may be carrying around on any given day.  My fully vaccinated child never gets sick, and meanwhile is contributing toward protecting newborn babies and the immunocompromised, all at once.  It's pretty cool that way.  Although truly I feel like whether kid gets sick a lot or not has more to do with luck than anything else;  I know plenty of 100% breastfed all natural babies who come down with every bug on the block, and others who don't.  That reality doesn't allow us as much back patting though.  

[emmy526]

I have to concur with you on that...my two UNvaccinated teens are some of the healthiest kids their pedi has seen...he told me so.  

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

I don't worry about this at all. Healthy unvaxed kids have a immune system that hasn't been breached so it works optimally. Coming into contact with "germy" kids probably won't cause illness. JMHO based on my experience as a mom of two older unvaxed kiddos!

[lovebeingamomma]

Again, putting words into my mouth.  I never used the words survival of the fittest, I don't know where you're getting that from.   

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

"Survival of the fittest," as a motto doesn't leave much room for caring about the less fit.  I care about my child, of course, beyond all others... however if I found that she'd passed measles to a newborn baby who then died or was subsequently brain damaged from it, I could never forgive myself.  Perhaps believing that child to be "less fit" makes you moms feel more comfortable about that idea.  

The health of your children has little to do with what germs they may be carrying around on any given day.  My fully vaccinated child never gets sick, and meanwhile is contributing toward protecting newborn babies and the immunocompromised, all at once.  It's pretty cool that way.  Although truly I feel like whether kid gets sick a lot or not has more to do with luck than anything else;  I know plenty of 100% breastfed all natural babies who come down with every bug on the block, and others who don't.  That reality doesn't allow us as much back patting though.  

[stik]

How nice for you. It must be great to have the healthiest kids on the block.

Didn't we have this conversation in the Case for Vax thread just about a month ago? Is there a time limit now on how long we can go without someone using the words "survival of the fittest" and then acting surprised when other people get upset?

[lovebeingamomma]

Originally Posted by stik 

How nice for you. It must be great to have the healthiest kids on the block.
Didn't we have this conversation in the Case for Vax thread just about a month ago? Is there a time limit now on how long we can go without someone using the words "survival of the fittest" and then acting surprised when other people get upset?

Are you trying to actually contribute to this conversation or just joining in to mock?

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

While I find this sentiment to be beyond comprehension personally, I appreciate your honesty.  Thank you for telling the rest of the world you don't care about their children, or whether your kids get theirs sick or cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases.  I really do appreciate that you aren't pussyfooting around or hiding behind "no such thing as herd immunity."  

For goodness sake.

Caring about and putting your child's health first does not equal  "you don't care about their children or whether your kids get theirs sick and cause them to die of vaccine preventable diseases."

Do I want other kids to get sick and die?   No.

Do I do my part of avoid spreading disease through non-invasive means (you know, by keeping sick kids at home), hand-washing etc.  Yes.  That is more than many people I know, and probably does more to reduce disease than vaccines for diseases that are rarely seen.

Am I about to inject something into my kids that I do not consider safe to potentially protect others?  NO.

Ask yourself:  If you believed vaccines were unsafe - would you give them to your child?  

[stik]

Lovebeingamama, I'm commenting on recurring eugenics theme in the discourse on this forum. I think it's important.

Fwiw, you didn't say it - someone else did.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by frito99 

For those of you considering not vaccinating: this is not just a personal choice that affects your children only. It has ramifications for the entire community, especially those vulnerable people with poor immune systems that cannot be vaccinated themselves and who are at risk of dying from vaccine preventable diseases.

Vaccination is not some conspiracy that every country on earth just happens to buy into. It has eradicated small pox, nearly eradicated polio, rubella, tetanus, and diptheria.  But thanks to non-vaccinators,  measles and mumps, once rare, are now returning in regular epidemics in developed countries.

By all means, elect not to use an HPV vaccine (Gaurdasil), if your daughter gets cervical cancer thats not a public health probem. But for the other vaccinations its not just a personal choice - you are underminig the health of your entire community. Thanks alot!

-Outraged mother

Do you know which vaccines can and can not contribute to herd immunity?

How has vaccination done anything to eradicate tetanus since it's not a disease that's transmitted from person to person?

[stik]

Alegna, these days, tetanus comes with the vaccines for diphtheria and pertussis, so while that particular vaccine will not generate herd immunity for anything, the injection that delivers it will. 
 

Plus, from what I hear tetanus can really suck.  There's nothing wrong with protecting yourself as well as the herd. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by stik 

Lovebeingamama, I'm commenting on recurring eugenics theme in the discourse on this forum. I think it's important.
 

This is not the first thread you have brought this topic up on.

It is (to my recollection) the third.

Start a separate post on it.  It is obviously something you want to discuss.

Repeatedly inserting it into threads is not cool.  It is a pretty nasty accusation.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

 me too! 

funny somehow civilization has been able to survive prior to vaccines and even with vaccines it does come down to the fittest in the end

given the number one cause of children's death I fail to see how constantly throwing it at non-vaccers does anyone one good yet it seems always to be the go to issue and not looking at the bigger picture of survival - must make some feel like they can just bash and somehow other must fall suite and that ends it all 

Originally Posted by prettypixels 

"Survival of the fittest," as a motto doesn't leave much room for caring about the less fit.  I care about my child, of course, beyond all others... however if I found that she'd passed measles to a newborn baby who then died or was subsequently brain damaged from it, I could never forgive myself.  Perhaps believing that child to be "less fit" makes you moms feel more comfortable about that idea.  

Bolding in both quotes mine.

1.  prettypixels - you said "you moms."  Plural.  Who else said anything about "survival of the fittest?"  

2.  I reread Serenbat comment, and quite frankly, it could use some clarification.  She did not say "I don't care if weaker people die", she said "even with vaccines it comes down to the fittest in the end" which is a true statement.  Statistically, a vaccinated sickly child will probably not fare as well if they catch something as a healthy vaccinated child.

Let's assume some good intent here and ask for clarification before jumping into eugenics.

[ambersrose]

OP, do you also complain about the population problem?  Nature and its system of maintaining balance is complex.  It is more expansive than we currently understand and I hold my faith in nature.