Tips for homeschooling a reluctant, argumentative kid? - Page 2

[Curlyfry7]

Originally Posted by Emaye 

My kids were going to be partially home-schooled but we have dropped that idea and gone full-time.  I have found that doing our first lesson at 7:30 in the morning has been helpful.  Shortly after breakfast, my 6 year old is well rested, in a great mood and very motivated.  He is very receptive to doing some of his reading and writing work. After that, he is free until about 2 pm (after his in room, alone rest time) when we do math fact (fast addition stuff).  He does that on the ipad and likes it pretty well.  His total structured instruction time is about 1.5 hours a day.  The rest of the time he plays with his sister, builds with blocks, looks at his books and draws.  He also listens to up to 4 or 5 stories on the ipad and spends a lot of time asking questions about stuff in those stories.  He goes outside for two to three hours a day.  We do not do formal school work during weekends.  This seems to work and I am going to stick to it as a mostly non negotiable schedule.  I find that if I randomly ask him to do work in the day time, he balks and gets upset.  And leaving it up to when he feels like it lead to procrastination and arguments about when and what.  I found that when he knows the consistent schedule of when we do things he is happier.  

Maybe you and your son can draw up an agreement and then you be very firm about enforcing it? I found, having a firm schdule of when he does structured work really helped us.  

I have tried asking him in the past, but it was after we had been arguing, so I need to approach it again. Although, for him, it doesn't matter what time of day it is-he is spoiling for a fight. Ugh!

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by Curlyfry7 

Here's a question I have for you as an unschooler...how DO you let go and trust that they will learn what they need?? I believe in the theory, but have a hard time trusting that they will actually pick stuff up. I think that part of this is because I see a lot of people writing that they let their child learn on their own, but then that statement is followed them saying their child was reading by 4, doing math/geography/quantum physics by the time they were 6. (and I do not meant his snarkily!! ) My friends have a little girl who is 4 months older than my DD and she knows all her letters already-not in preschool either. My Dd knows T, O, and possibly M. And has no real interest in learning the rest at this point, although I know she is as bright as my friend's little girl. I don't want to fail my kids, you know?

I get you.  And I have no good answer.  My girls are *not* gifted, but they seem to be picking things up at a reasonable pace.  Unusually, they love to share *all* their discoveries with me, so it is easy to know pretty much right where they are at.  I have been told this can be unusual, so I can't credit it to any learning style.  You are right, it is easier to trust when children are precocious.

Two things make things easy for me and my family, and this is why I have no good answer:  I have been contemplating HSing since at least a decade before the girls were born, and as a hippy anarchist, things like trusting in a child's ability to learn has come easy to me because I was right there mentally in the first place.  The other easy thing is that my girls seem to be curious about everything, and that could just be the way the dice landed.

Two practical things have helped me relax though, and I don't share this advice as an unschooler, but as someone who prefers to delay academics.  One was that for nearly 2 years I have kept a simple calendar/diary on which I recorded every remotely "schoolish" things we did or that the girls shared.  It was extremely helpful, and I only recently stopped doing it so intricately (I have still needed to develop some more trust).

The second thing I have done is just to be interested in everything myself.  I don't try, it's just how I am, and I can be a bit of a dweeb about it.  ("How'd we start talking about this, mama?"-- I hear that all the time.)

A young child so much younger takes up so much time and attention, and it could be that your son craves the attention that he can't get the way he wants.  And that is a problem I've never had to deal with right now, at the age when you start thinking "I need to start homeschooling".  I dealt with that long before most people even consider it.  So, that's why my advice isn't really all that great.

I have heard that you don't need to start with anything academic.  Start where he is at.  If he watches TV, ask him what he likes about his shows, get him talking, communicating.  Get him a book about animation, or one that goes along with what he watches (Power Rangers?  Why not?)   You will probably find that he is articulate and interested.  Video games, bikes, whatever.  Start where he is at, however silly it seems.  

I also find that when my daughter is bored she has often loved having a clipboard, paper, sketchbook or pencil right where she sits on the couch to pick up whenever she wants.   She also loved reading the baby board books to her little sister, one word per page at the time.  Why not?

ETA: On the slower side of things:  my youngest took a long time to recognize letters, she doesn't read at nearly six, though she can sound a word out painfully.  My 7.5 *just* started writing more often, after resisting for years.  Both disliked anything resembling a lesson, even just pointing something out reading sometimes.  And both went from not really "getting" something for a long time to suddenly understanding a concept and flying with it a ways.  (Learning is not always gradual, in fact not usually at all.  More often, it is disorganized and choppy.)  

Edited by SweetSilver - 8/26/12 at 8:42pm

[Emaye]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

I get you.  And I have no good answer.  My girls are *not* gifted, but they seem to be picking things up at a reasonable pace.  Unusually, they love to share *all* their discoveries with me, so it is easy to know pretty much right where they are at.  I have been told this can be unusual, so I can't credit it to any learning style.  You are right, it is easier to trust when children are precocious.

Two things make things easy for me and my family, and this is why I have no good answer:  I have been contemplating HSing since at least a decade before the girls were born, and as a hippy anarchist, things like trusting in a child's ability to learn has come easy to me because I was right there mentally in the first place.  The other easy thing is that my girls seem to be curious about everything, and that could just be the way the dice landed.

Two practical things have helped me relax though, and I don't share this advice as an unschooler, but as someone who prefers to delay academics.  One was that for nearly 2 years I have kept a simple calendar/diary on which I recorded every remotely "schoolish" things we did or that the girls shared.  It was extremely helpful, and I only recently stopped doing it so intricately (I have still needed to develop some more trust).

The second thing I have done is just to be interested in everything myself.  I don't try, it's just how I am, and I can be a bit of a dweeb about it.  ("How'd we start talking about this, mama?"-- I hear that all the time.)

A young child so much younger takes up so much time and attention, and it could be that your son craves the attention that he can't get the way he wants.  And that is a problem I've never had to deal with right now, at the age when you start thinking "I need to start homeschooling".  I dealt with that long before most people even consider it.  So, that's why my advice isn't really all that great.

I have heard that you don't need to start with anything academic.  Start where he is at.  If he watches TV, ask him what he likes about his shows, get him talking, communicating.  Get him a book about animation, or one that goes along with what he watches (Power Rangers?  Why not?)   You will probably find that he is articulate and interested.  Video games, bikes, whatever.  Start where he is at, however silly it seems.  

I also find that when my daughter is bored she has often loved having a clipboard, paper, sketchbook or pencil right where she sits on the couch to pick up whenever she wants.   She also loved reading the baby board books to her little sister, one word per page at the time.  Why not?

ETA: On the slower side of things:  my youngest took a long time to recognize letters, she doesn't read at nearly six, though she can sound a word out painfully.  My 7.5 *just* started writing more often, after resisting for years.  Both disliked anything resembling a lesson, even just pointing something out reading sometimes.  And both went from not really "getting" something for a long time to suddenly understanding a concept and flying with it a ways.  (Learning is not always gradual, in fact not usually at all.  More often, it is disorganized and choppy.)  

SweetSilver, although I am not an unschooler, I really enjoy reading your perspective.  It gives me more confidence as a homeschooler to know that learning will happen as long as I continue to give it opportunities to take place.  So, thank you for sharing ever so generously.  

Originally Posted by Curlyfry7 


I have tried asking him in the past, but it was after we had been arguing, so I need to approach it again. Although, for him, it doesn't matter what time of day it is-he is spoiling for a fight. Ugh!

Try different things and see which approach sticks.  Mine like the consistent schedule, maybe yours is more apt to a more unschooly approach or something in between.  It takes time to figure out what works.  Reading and math is where I have decided to actively instruct. The rest, like science, history, etc seems to be happening naturally.  I am always amazed by how much the kids know.  

Fingers crossed you will find something that works for both of you soon!  

[rightkindofme]

I will not engage with "bored". I was not put on this earth to entertain you. Your job is to go play. Do it. But my kid isn't defiant. I don't know what I would do if she was.

Also, I wouldn't push real hard yet. I couldn't handle actively homeschooling with a baby at the same time. I would drown.

[Hopefulmama]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 

What does interest him? Surely there's something other than screen time and junk food? If there truly isn't, then I would unplug the TV and see what pops up. He'll probably go through a spate of whining boredom if you unplug him, but I'd encourage you to weather it. Make it clear that his boredom is his to solve. You might provide a little guidance, like "Think about whether you want to do something here, or in your room, or outside." Or "I'll give you five possibilities that I can think of, but if you don't like any of them, you'll have to think of your own ideas. I'm sure you can figure something out." 

My eldest dd was extremely oppositional. What she needed was lots of autonomy. Tons of it. Things were much better when we just let her organize her own life. but she liked to put blame for her own mistakes and her own negative feelings on others. We just made an effort not to let that stuff stick: if she wanted to control her life, she couldn't get angry at other people when her own choices (or lack of choices) led to consequences she didn't like. We'd help her work through problems, but we wouldn't let the blame stick, and we wouldn't let her spew negativity around. Meaning we just wouldn't engage with her, wouldn't argue, wouldn't get into control battles. We'd just shrug and express confidence that she could work things out.

We ended up being unschoolers. And she (eventually) ended up being incredibly driven and self-motivated. All that intensity eventually got used for good. 

Miranda

Off topic, but that is just what I needed to read this morning! Original poster, I am sorry I don't have much to offer. My heart goes out to you. You want what is best for your child and you are willing to work at it and some times is is just.so.frustrating! I hope things even out with your DS. I have realized there is an adjustment period and kids learn so differently from each other. Hopefully you can tune it to what does make him tick and go from there.

[JuniperBCN]

Originally Posted by Curlyfry7 



Here's a question I have for you as an unschooler...how DO you let go and trust that they will learn what they need?? I believe in the theory, but have a hard time trusting that they will actually pick stuff up. I think that part of this is because I see a lot of people writing that they let their child learn on their own, but then that statement is followed them saying their child was reading by 4, doing math/geography/quantum physics by the time they were 6. (and I do not meant his snarkily!! ) My friends have a little girl who is 4 months older than my DD and she knows all her letters already-not in preschool either. My Dd knows T, O, and possibly M. And has no real interest in learning the rest at this point, although I know she is as bright as my friend's little girl. I don't want to fail my kids, you know?

I think more reading about the benefits of delayed academics can help at this stage.  Basically, it seems that by the time most kids are around 11, those without clear learning difficulties have caught up with the kids who were pushed early.  My son (who's 6) doesn't know all his letters, is not reliable in counting and grouping objects beyond 5.  However, he periodically asks me to write things, he asks me to read signs, he plays with letter stamps and he LOVES being read to.  He asks how many of things he needs for making things, is capable of dividing things with his sister, routinely sorts and groups things in a variety of ways that are useful/interesting/beautiful to him, asks about measuring time, etc.  So I know he is curious about reading writing and numbers... I imagine that as his needs for information increase, his curiosity will become more acute and that will lead to the concrete acquisition of skills.  If he doesn't show more concrete progress by the time he's 8 or 9, I suppose I would start to look out for signs of potential obstacles and addressing them.  It might not be so easy for me to feel calm then.   A bunch of his friends of the same age seem to be in a similar place skill wise.  

DK is a publisher.  The book we had was a translation of this http://www.amazon.com/Weapon-Visual-History-Arms-Armor/dp/075666540X/ref=sr_1_2?

ie=UTF8&qid=1346068806&sr=8-2&keywords=DK+weapons+visual+history

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[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by JuniperBCN 

DK is a publisher.  The book we had was a translation of this http://www.amazon.com/Weapon-Visual-History-Arms-Armor/dp/075666540X/ref=sr_1_2?

ie=UTF8&qid=1346068806&sr=8-2&keywords=DK+weapons+visual+history

Our groups really enjoy visitors, so seriously, if you make it here, get in touch!

I loved this book.  Also, "Castle" has a wonderful, detailed history of battlements and medieval battle.  DD was really into ancient weapons for a while.  

They don't have to be at the "right" reading level to enjoy these kinds of books.  While my girls love all kinds of books, the ones that occupy *them* for hours are the ones written for older kids and adults, no matter that they can't read them well or at all.  It is the same with our neighbor and her 5yo son.  He can sit for 10 minutes for a kids' story and love it and that's about all the sitting time he is ever able to do-- except when a big book on the history of logging and chainsaws makes it home from the library.  He can't read a word, they are huge, wordy books for adults, but they engage him for an extraordinarily long time.  Just like my girls, he'll sit alone and look through for hours (meaning more than one!    I'm not talking 4 or 5 here....)

[JuniperBCN]

They don't have to be at the "right" reading level to enjoy these kinds of books.  While my girls love all kinds of books, the ones that occupy *them* for hours are the ones written for older kids and adults, no matter that they can't read them well or at all.  It is the same with our neighbor and her 5yo son.  He can sit for 10 minutes for a kids' story and love it and that's about all the sitting time he is ever able to do-- except when a big book on the history of logging and chainsaws makes it home from the library.  He can't read a word, they are huge, wordy books for adults, but they engage him for an extraordinarily long time.  Just like my girls, he'll sit alone and look through for hours (meaning more than one!    I'm not talking 4 or 5 here....)

  We ALWAYS have this kind of book and my kids are the same... they look and look and look.  Sometimes they ask questions and that leads us to reading parts or looking up stuff on the internet, documentaries, series, etc.  We've looked a lot at ones regarding knights, pirates, castles, families and houses from around the world, human body, animals, geology/minerals/precious stones, circus and dance, Egyptians, Romans, Native Americans, different mythologies, explorers, inventions.  Usborne, DK, Larrousse and National Geographic publish a lot of these.  I think the most important thing in my house is that they have good quality, engaging visuals.  I know my kids absorb information from these and so while my oldest "lags" in skills that school kids his age are supposed to have, he's got a lot of information that they haven't explored yet. I grab them from the library based on what I see them watching or playing at, or what they have enjoyed in the past, and leave them scattered around different, relaxing places in the house.  While they often get picked up and enjoyed, sometimes they get ignored and as a far as I'm concerned, that's fine.

[Kindermama]

He is still so little! He should be spending the bulk of his time playing..outdoors preferably. His other free time should be shadowing you as you work around the house, using open ended toys indoors, being read to and exploring! Don't worry about anything formal for a long while. I would, however, use the time to work on his argumentative nature! Read Easy. To Love, Difficult to Discipline. I have an argumentative child who s now 13 and I learned that she was picking up. A lot from us and our ways! I made an effort to change and slowly but surely, she mirrored the changes! Kids are sponges and mirrors!