Vaccinations Forum: Which of the following do you feel would be best?

[Cynthia Mosher]

We want to make some changes to the Vaccinations forum to accommodate support needs as well as open discussion and respectful debate to a forum for that purpose where everyone can participate. This will include some changes to the guidelines and moderation in the separate subforums, which we'll refine later. For now we want to decide on structure. Based on a previous thread we posted to get community feedback, we are keeping our existing forums but are considering the following changes and additions:

Set Vaccinations as the category forum closed to posting. It serves as a category only - like Pregnancy & Birth does for its subforums.

Subforums

Vaccinations Discussion and Debate: The main discussion, wear-your-big-girl-panties forum to discuss all information and concerns about vaccination for parents who vaccinate as well as those staunchly against vaccination. Talk issues, not individual. 

Researching the Vaccine Decision? Start Here - Pull our past Archives of different topics into this forum or place as subforums. This will be a forum where info is shared but not debated. new info an be posted but will be posted by submission and approval of moderation team with no discussion. Possibility of a moderator-hosted monthly chat thread..

I'm Not Vaccinating - If you're not vaccinating, this is your forum. This forum will host topics that are about dealing with issues when choosing to not vaccinate. 

Selective and Delayed Vaccination -  For those who are vaccinating selectively or on a delayed schedule

Additions

The question is whether to add a subforum where parents who have made the decision to vaccinate on schedule can post to discuss issues of concern to them. What do you think would be best? Cast your vote in our poll and feel free to add any comments or suggestions in a post. 

You might also want to refer to the results and feedback on this community-initiated poll, which is our reason for considering some of the changes: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1355206/should-there-be-a-pro-vax-forum/0_100

And see Peggy's poll here: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1361271/mothering-poll-of-vaccine-choices

[CatsCradle]

Hi Cynthia:  for some reason I couldn't vote (voting function wasn't working).  So, I'll say it here:  I don't think there needs to be a subforum.  Having a regular Vaccination Debate and Discussion is enough, in my opinion.  I don't think that people that choose to vaccinate are limited to a special class or a class of individuals that need special advice or opinions.  Between:  I have chosen to selectively vaccinate but I wouldn't call myself "pro-vac."  I just make decisions based on my personal research.  If I thought that something was detrimental or amiss, I would certainly consider it and make an informed decision, based on my personal circumstances and the information known to me.  I wouldn't call that "pro-vac."  But whatever. I think the general discussion forums would suit my needs (although they aren't highly relevant anymore) and probably a lot of people on here that choose to vaccinate in some way, even if minimal.  I think more attention should be paid to the guidelines, however, no matter what forum or subforum.  I personally don't comment in the subforums because I don't really have anything to prove.  I would hope that in the general discussion, people could be respectful of those who feel they make informed choices in their own circumstances.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Thanks CatsCradle. 

Can you tell me what occurs when you try to vote? I'd like to try to resolve the issue. 

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher 

Thanks CatsCradle. 

Can you tell me what occurs when you try to vote? I'd like to try to resolve the issue. 

HI Cynthia:  actually I was just able to vote now.  Not sure what was wrong last night.  I tried clicking but couldn't get the check mark to function.

[zebra15]

Everything CatsCradle said.  

Maybe I'm just older, wise, don't get my feeling hurt, whatever but I don't see a need to change the wording or make more subforums.

[Mama Soltera]

I don't come to Mothering for support on mainstream philosphies and practices. I don't think it would be true to Mothering magazine or the website to host that forum. It seems unnecessary.

[Cynthia Mosher]

I forgot to add the link to the previous poll posted by a member. That might give you some feel of why we are considering the changes: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1355206/should-there-be-a-pro-vax-forum/0_100

[Adaline'sMama]

I said it before in the other poll, but Ill say it again.

I think we should have a vaccination forum that has one subforum for "Im not vaxing" support only board.. This way, people who arent vaxing can seek support for things like dealing with family's comments, doctor's visits, being able to say no without pressure, etc.

I think the main vax board should host debates, studies, questions about reactions and scheduling, and people sharing why they have made one desicion or another. IMO, the forum should be all encompassing, much like the circ board only since Mothering doesnt take a stance on vaccinations the way she does with circ, we should have a support board for those who have chosen not to vax. I think the formal debates are great- more would be awesome. I think the main problem is the bickering. People should just agree to adhere to the UA more often and not post snide comments about how the other person feels.

I know that general understandings of respect are sometimes hard to have when we feel that the information that has been provided is false, dangerous, accusatory, biased, or from an unreputable source. But, there are more respectful ways to say, "I think that doctor is a quack" and if we all agreed to be more respectful then maybe new people wouldnt run and hide when they come here looking for answers. No where else on this board (other than the UC forum) is this hostile.

[ShadowMoon]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

I said it before in the other poll, but Ill say it again.

I think we should have a vaccination forum that has one subforum for "Im not vaxing" support only board.. This way, people who arent vaxing can seek support for things like dealing with family's comments, doctor's visits, being able to say no without pressure, etc.

I think the main vax board should host debates, studies, questions about reactions and scheduling, and people sharing why they have made one desicion or another. IMO, the forum should be all encompassing, much like the circ board only since Mothering doesnt take a stance on vaccinations the way she does with circ, we should have a support board for those who have chosen not to vax. I think the formal debates are great- more would be awesome. I think the main problem is the bickering. People should just agree to adhere to the UA more often and not post snide comments about how the other person feels.

I know that general understandings of respect are sometimes hard to have when we feel that the information that has been provided is false, dangerous, accusatory, biased, or from an unreputable source. But, there are more respectful ways to say, "I think that doctor is a quack" and if we all agreed to be more respectful then maybe new people wouldnt run and hide when they come here looking for answers. No where else on this board (other than the UC forum) is this hostile.

I agree with this

[Peggy O'Mara]

Thanks for the good discussion of this important topic.

While I agree that many come here for non-mainstream information, our community includes those who vaccinate on schedule as well as those who don't or who do so selectively and/or on their own timing. I don't want to leave any members of our community out and think that having a sub-forum, Vaccinating on Schedule, gives credibility to this option in our community.

Our choices for sub-forums seem to assume that the majority of our community members are non-vaccinators or selective vaccinators, but my assumption is that the majority of our community are vaccinators. If only 10% of the overall population does not vaccinate, then even if we have more of a percentage of non-vaccinators here at Mothering, we may still not be in the majority. I'm going to do a poll on another thread to see if we can find out. That might help inform our decisions here.

Without Vaccinating on Schedule on the list, it could look like we are an anti-vaccinating community. I want a newbie who may be thinking On Schedule as many do in the beginning to have a place to start that includes her. She may not even be asking questions yet. And, even if the sub-forum is just a jumping off place to other sub-forums, it still acknowledges her position.

Putting On Schedule with Delayed and Selective dilutes the concerns of each group. There's a lot of pre-decisions that go into selective and delayed while those vaccinating on schedule may be thoughtful but will be having a different kind of conversation.

I also think putting the vaccinators in with another forum could be construed as dismissive of the vaccinator and this group is a vocal part of our community.They could tend to dominate the Debate sub-forum if they don't feel treated fairly or equally.

Even using the term Mindful Vaccinations is pejorative. If I'm new, I may not understand the subtleties of the language here. Though I do like the sound of it, it does imply a judgment. Are we unwilling to welcome the newbie who is totally clueless?

I think this below is so clear. Delayed and Selective Vaccines is a clear topic. Adding Vaccinating on Schedule would add to clarity by covering all options equally and be more welcoming, I think.

Vaccinations Discussion and Debate: The main discussion, wear-your-big-girl-panties forum to discuss all information and concerns about vaccination for parents who vaccinate as well as those staunchly against vaccination. Talk issues, not individual. 

Researching the Vaccine Decision? Start Here - Pull our past Archives of different topics into this forum or place as subforums. This will be a forum where info is shared but not debated. new info an be posted but will be posted by submission and approval of moderation team with no discussion. Possibility of a moderator-hosted monthly chat thread..

I'm Not Vaccinating - If you're not vaccinating, this is your forum. This forum will host topics that are about dealing with issues when choosing to not vaccinate. 

Selective and Delayed Vaccination -  For those who are vaccinating selectively or on a delayed schedule

I'm Vaccinating on Schedule -- For those vaccinating on schedule.

[wishin'&hopin']

Actually, until this discussion came about I assumed that the Mothering stance (based on reading the magazine and the forums) was clearly anti-vaccination.  Knowing that it isn't--even tho' it still "feels" that way to me--makes me feel like much less of an outsider here.  In some ways, choosing to vaccinate in the natural parenting community does isolate and alienate folks who are looking for support w/in the community (in my family we embrace both western and other forms of medicine--so fertility drugs/osteopathy/acupuncture/herbs/and nsaids all have a place at our house).  

[Adaline'sMama]

I like the idea of being more welcoming to everyone (Im selective and delayed myself, I totally believe in herd immunity and plan to have all my kids fully vaxed by school age), but I just worry that so many subforums will be spreading everyone so thin. I mean, how many posters regularly post on the vax board? Or is part of the goal to make the board more inclusive so that more people post? Because if that's the case, I think it's going to take more than just more forums, it's going to take either people being nicer to each other or heavier moderation.

[Cynthia Mosher]

We do intend to recognize that more moderation is needed in the forums. Mosaic has been in there alone as the forum moderator, with some help from QueenOfTheMeadow. So we definitely plan to bring in another moderator and focus on  keeping discussions civil and helpful rather than bickering and antagonistic.  

[Turquesa]

As a sel/del vaxxer, my only concern is that if full-vaxxing is integrated into our forum, there is still a no-debate policy in tact.  I don't want anyone coming in to talk me into or out of certain decisions, whether it's full-vaxxers or non-vaxxers.  Regardless of their vax decisions, everyone needs a safe haven to discuss what they're doing without any judgements, questioning, or debates.  If I'm trying to make up my mind and want to hear more than one side, I know that I always have the option of the main vax forum. 

[~Adorkable~]

i think that having the two categories of, "i feel informed and choose not to", and "i feel informed and choose to in some way" makes a lot of sense.

i would hope that Mothering's stance is that everyone should be as informed as possible when making this sometimes hard choice. these two sections seem to give support to that stance.

i also agree that even though i knew that this was not the case, i have seen fully scheduled vaxing has not been made to feel like a legitimate choice on mothering in general. Since the choices that MDC makes in its forum categories do really set the tone, a applaud you for thinking this thru and taking it on.

in the delayed and selective right now there is a huge spectrum of choices and all guided by info and parental concern, vax on schedule is on that spectrum.  while you could say that not vaxing is also on that spectrum on the very other end, it does bring up a additional set of issues and i agree it should be in its own forum so the sake of easy searching and calmer boards.

i also am a big propionate of not sub dividing us further, we simply have too many cliches and subgroubs that dont talk to each other any more, echo chambers are no good for anyone. since this actually does not add a group, it just restates the scope of it, this keeps things equal in terms of sub groups.

[marsupial-mom]

We do on schedule vaccinations. I would rather not be lumped in together with selective and delayed vaccinations because I believe those parents have more in common with the nonvaxers than with the on-schedule vaxers. Moreover, some of the issues I'd want to discuss would turn into debates in that crowd.

Also, I think there should be room for discussing on schedule vaccinations. The kinds of things we would discuss might include:

- news of outbreaks

- discussion of how to/how not to interact with nonvaxxed children/families

- types of optional vaccines, like the flu shot

- places to get vaccines (special types of vaccines or discounted rates, etc)

- traveling and vaccinations

As it stands, I don't participate much in the vax boards because there is not a real area for my choice. So if I participate, it's going to be mostly in a "debate" type of setting.

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

We do on schedule vaccinations. I would rather not be lumped in together with selective and delayed vaccinations because I believe those parents have more in common with the nonvaxers than with the on-schedule vaxers. Moreover, some of the issues I'd want to discuss would turn into debates in that crowd.

Im selective/delayed and I feel like I have more in common with people who vax on schedule that non vaxers. I believe in herd immunity- the purpose for me selecting and delaying is because of adverse reactions, not because I dont think the vaccines work.

[wishin'&hopin']

Some of what occurs to me, as I ponder the notion that mothering supports informed choice (as opposed to being an anti-vaccination site) is how the corporate entity of "mothering.com" refers to the option of on-time vaccination as recommended by the CDC.  For example, in the survey, the alternative to the options: no vax and selective/delayed vax is "do whatever the doctor tells me".  Now, we have chosen to fully (and largely on time) vaccinate our child--this was an informed and thoughtful decision--in no way was it merely "doing what the doctor tells me".  I think it's things like this that set the tone that mothering is a generally anti-vax site.  

[kathymuggle]

Any update?

[Cynthia Mosher]

It's on our list for discussion this coming week.