In-laws trying to teach my kids their religion - How to stop this? - Page 2

[meemee]

Originally Posted by aurora_skys 

I have absolutely had it with their antics and have subtly stopped all unattended visits with the kids. No more going over there for a couple hours while I do housework etc. 

duh! I missed this. you ARE on the right track. just keep doing it this way till even that gets to be too much. 

seems to me if they dont buckle down you will be heading in the no contact direction. 

and money. OMG they will so hold that over you. i totally agree with the pp.

i mean even without giving you guys money see how much of a hold they already have on you. when they do can you imagine how much worse it would be. 

[Choose2Reuse]

I think you should talk to your kids in advance and explain that your inlaws believe things that you do not.  Supervise the visits (it sounds like you already are), and if they sneak in something disturbing, later explain to your kids that you don't believe that thing (and that you think it was wrong of their grandparents to teach that, and why, if you think they're old enough to understand).  Meanwhile, work on enforcing boundaries, though it sounds like your inlaws are nutcases headed for a complete breach of relations because they're totally irrational and disrespectful of your wishes.  But you never know...people can surprise you.

With regards to dealing with rational people...my husband and I are of two different faiths (Hindu & Methodist Christian), and we have agreed that we'll teach both faiths.  I don't see any problem with allowing my FIL to teach our daughter stories about Krishna, and when the time comes I'll read a kid's book of bible stories with her.  Just because we don't take things literally doesn't mean that we don't respect both traditions as part of our culture.  That said...while yes, I will teach her about Jesus dying on the cross, it's going to be less about blood and gore and much more about self-sacrifice to save us and how much God must love us and the resurrection.  Because I think that's the important part of the story, and I think it's an important story to know.  On the other hand, there is a particular Indian holiday that my husband hates because it involves reading aloud a totally misogynistic book, and yet he celebrates it anyway because it's part of family tradition.  We will probably keep celebrating it, and explain to DD why we disagree with the book and yet celebrate the holiday anyhow.
 

[Sharlla]

x and i told his parents they were not to tell our kids about religion, if the kids were older and they asked a question it was fine to answer that they believed something not that it was truth and if they disrespected our  boundaries they would no longer have unsupervised access to our kids.  we have never had an issue with them, WE are the parents and we make up the rules. if they dont like it, too bad

[tropicana]

Originally Posted by aurora_skys 

He imagines that they will help us financially sometime and so we shouldn't piss them off. I have absolutely had it with their antics and have subtly stopped all unattended visits with the kids.

this is a HUGE problem, right here. if your husband wants their money, they probably already know that, and therefore are already doing what they do because of that, and the sense of entitlement it gives them.

my advice to you would be to focus on you and your husband getting on the same page over this important issue -- your husband's expectation of receiving money from them. once you can resolve this one (i should say "if" you can resolve it), the manipulations on the part of the inlaws will completely lose their power and go away and become a non-issue.

.

[pek64]

All visits must be supervised, especially while the children are young, to prevent further exposure. I hope you are doing that, at least.

[scarletsmiles]

So 1st of all I'm so sorry that you have a crazy MIL who can't respect your boundaries. 

From the perspective of a practicing Mormon, perhaps I can share some thoughts on the situation.

I completely respect that you do not believe in Mormonism. I only share the following to explain why your MIL seems to be overly crazy, even from a Mormon perspective. She shouldn't even be teaching your kids about Mormonism because it seems like she is missing it. One of the things I love about Mormonism is that there is a way within the doctrine for everyone to have the chance to go to heaven. Whether they knew about mormonism or not. Even if they were Mormon and left, there is room in the doctrine for those people to live as eternal families too. Everyone will be judged perfectly by the savior. Another thing that is super central to mormon theology is agency. We do not believe in pre-determined lives. The ability to choose our path in life is really important. Which is why it bothers me that your MIL is so crazy about teaching your kids Mormonism. Within Mormon theology, they will be OK! And she's willfully damaging her relationship with you and her husband. Even though if she truly understood Mormon doctrine there would be no reason to act in such a way. 

Many religious people including Mormons can become overly zealous, hone in on certain aspects and forget the balancing other aspect. Seems like she is forgetting the agency and ordinances by proxy part of the religion.  

Unfortunately within mormonism there can be rheotoric among church leaders which can make mothers feel bad if their kids leave the church. Especially among women. There is a lot of rheoteric around moms nurturing and teaching children what's right. Especially if motherhood was her sole occupation, within her mormon community there can be a lot tied into her identity as a successful person based on the religious "success" of her posterity. I hope that makes sense. I don't think that makes her actions right, but perhaps it you can understand a bit of her crazy. And again that's an aspect that some Mormons can obsess over in an unhealthy way.  Cuz remember that whole agency thing? Balance lady! And hugely, if your husband is a good, kind person because of how he was raised, then she did well mothering him! 

Also, many, many Mormons do not take all the stories in the bible literally. Just throwing that out there. Your MIL seems really overly crazy. There is totally room for understanding that through translations over 2000+ years that things can get exaggerated or enter the realm of fiction. Nonetheless the stories can be instructive and useful. If you don't feel that way, that is totally cool.

Here's a suggestion a bit different from the others. Perhaps learn a bit more Mormonism on your own and share with your MIL some of the things you like about it. Perhaps by showing you are understanding of her beliefs she won't feel the need to sneak teach your kids. I recommend this lecture by a practicing Mormon academic. It's about an hour and it isn't preachy. It was a presentation given at an institute to foster religious understanding among other faiths. I would NOT recommend meeting mormon missionaries.  http://www.icjs.org/mormonism.php

Maybe also having a conversation about the things you appreciate that she taught her son. Then sharing that her constantly trying to teach your kids is really straining your relationship. You'd like to have them involved in your kids lives but, if it continues you won't be able to have her around your kids. 

Then again, she may be so beyond reason this could never work. I'm so sorry you've been dealing with this for many years, and I'm sorry you husband is having a hard time standing up to them.  Good luck!

[A&A]

I'll give you Maya Angelou's words of advice:    "We teach people how to treat us."  

In other words, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  

And buy the book Toxic Inlaws by Susan Forward.  

[aurora_skys]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I was a little uncertain about posting this thread because nothing attracts flame wars and trolls faster than religion :P But so far so good! I like all the varied feedback this thread has gotten.

Some of you seem to really understand what I mean about not being able to sit my mil down and talk with her about this like adults would. She does not process the world like most rational adults do and it would explode in my face for sure. I wouldn't be particularly bothered by the rift she would cause but I know it would pain my husband. He is always seeking the relationship he was never really able to have with them. It's so sad to watch. They demand an unrealistic perfection and if their kids don't follow this perfect model (which includes toeing the line of their religion) they can be so harsh. My husband is regularly harassed by his mother about how us not going to church is causing Heavenly Father to withhold His blessings, etc. The pressure from them regarding religion is intense and it's very much focused on my husband. He has had some serious emotional episodes as a result of their disrespect. They seem to think that I will just follow along with children in tow, if only they could successfully guilt/lure him back into their church.

Visiting them less often has given me a nice break from them and it seems to help my husband be more at ease and better able to love himself. The kids will not be going over there unattended again. For those of you who affirmed this position, thanks. It's nice to know that others get what I'm dealing with!

The comment that mentioned the little girl holding a same sex marriage with the Barbie dolls and her grandmother getting all upset by it really helped me better understand about why this whole thing is so bothersome to me. I do not raise my children in the Baptist religion of my youth because I regard their teachings on children to be abusive (just the other day I was dismayed to read an article from my childhood preacher talking about how if you don't use corporeal punishment on your children then it means you hate them. Really brought back memories of being spanked, "Because I love you," whack!) There are many other Baptist teachings with which I strongly disagree, including their intolerance and condemnation of gays. I am very familiar with Mormon doctrines and teachings and I disagree with Mormonism on many points as well, particularly their doctrines regarding minorities, women, and gays. So I realized that part of the reason I'm so upset by my mils actions is because, if she manages to get my kids on her side even a little bit it will be leading them closer to a path of religious intolerance. Something dh and I strongly want to avoid! 

Thanks to all who suggested telling my kids that the stories they are told are make believe or fiction. I know that my husband and I have the strongest influence over our kids and it's good to be reminded of this. Just like I had to explain to my son that a whale can't really eat someone without killing him (it's not that I think the Jonah story is blatantly harmful, I just like science too much...), I will probably be doing a lot of deprogramming over the years, over many other issues as well. Just the other day my own grandmother told my three year old that his beloved dinosaurs probably didn't exist. He was baffled and then tried to teach her that they did exist, just millions of years ago and they're all dead now. It was adorable and I was proud of him for asserting his knowledge.

The toxic in laws book is a great suggestion. I can't exactly display it on my bookshelf, lol but it sounds like an informative read so I will check it out.  

Thanks again everyone, it sounds like this is a topic that lots of people have experience with. I'd love to hear from moms with older kids and see how their situations panned out as the kiddos aged...

*edited for late night grammar errors :)

[A&A]

I also think if you give them a different (liberal) religion, then they are less likely to be persuaded by your in-laws.  You may want to see if there is a Unitarian Universalist church in your area.  

[pek64]

I would like to add that if an opportunity arises to move away, you may want to consider that. If seeing them less often has helped both you and your husband, then added distance (and even less frequency of visits) may help more. Just a thought.

[mumkimum]

It can also help to remind grandparents that there are many non-religious things that will be fun, interesting, and important to share with their grandchildren.  Somehow that can tend to end up forgotten when you have a struggle like this within your relationship with them.

[RStelle]

 I don't have older kids, but growing up I had a grandmother that was a little like your MIL, and I pretty much knew from the beginning that when it came to religion she was just plain crazy. My parents are not at all religious, but they did talk a lot about religion with me, read me lots of books about different religions, and basically just tell me to be open minded and respect other people's beliefs. Until I was 8 or 9 I would go to church when we visited my grandparents, but then I just decided that even to be polite I couldn't go because I just didn't agree with what was being said. I just felt like I was sitting in a room full people being crazy, and I couldn't handle it anymore! In retrospect I was probably influenced more away form religion by going to church with my grandma, but I wasn't scared for life or anything. I do wish my parents had stepped in more and told my Grandma and other super-religious family members to back off, because I always felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to deal when they were reading me those creepy stories, or talking about god all the time or whatever. I didn't want to be rude so I would just sit through it, but I wish someone had told me I could have said "No, I don't believe this, and I don't want to talk about it anymore!", or had said it for me. 

Anyway...I ended up being pretty much the most atheist person you will ever meet, but I still plan on teaching my kids about other religions so they can end up believing what is right for them. My step dad is very religious in a non-crazy way, and is going to take them to synagogue, for example.  I will be clear on what I believe and that other people believe differently, and that is fine too.

But that being said it sounds like your MIL is going to just keep pushing and being CRAZY about it. I agree with others who said to only do supervised visits. It sounds like she is not going to listen to you, and it also sounds like she needs to be supervised for other reasons, too. You can also explain to your kids about how Grandma does/ says some funny things and just to ignore her, it sounds like at some point you will end up having to talk to them about other issues about her too, anyway. We only do supervised visits with my MIL, but she hasn't noticed yet, lol. I'm not sure how we'll deal with it if she starts to make it an issue. 

Edited by RStelle - 8/27/12 at 8:43am

[Tigerchild]

I don't know how you define "older" kids--mine are 10, 9, and 9.  I used to belong to a very strict, fundamentalist branch of Christianity, but walked away in my 20s.  Many people in my family believe similar things to the church/group I walked away from--but perhaps they are the "lite" version.  Needless to say, for a very long time it was extremely triggering for me to even be around the lite/wannabe stuff.

I've re-evaluated all my relationships (and their relationships with my kids) individually.  There are some members of my family who I would shut down even praying in front of me.  Meanwhile, my most conservative aunt and uncle I do not mind at all that they go around praying at corners and doing their spiritual warfare stuff around our property.  It all depends on our relationship and how much I trust them.  My parents have "found religion" after I left the home, and try to push it--but I have none of it from them.  I don't allow them to take my kids to church when they visit, would not go to any church they went to, and I donate all religious books/items they send us immediately.  I would not do a blanket thing like that with my aunt/uncle, though they don't send those things because they respect boundaries and are not manipulative and controlling.

It sounds like your husband's parents are abusive and controlling, or have been in the past.  So it makes total sense that your spidey senses and your hackles are raised.  Sounds like you have a plan in place though.  I also hope that you never EVER accept any money from them under any circumstances.  They do know that your husband wants that (they'll practically be able to smell it) and they will make your life hell if you ever agree to take money from them.  It does suck to watch someone grieve and be in denial that they will NEVER EVER have the relationship with their parents that they should (if this was a fair or just world) be able to expect.  But I would stand your ground firm on that one.

[zebra15]

What I taught my son is in my house we have tolerance for everyone.  We may not agree with everyone, we may not believe what everyone else believes but we are tolerant of everyone. So if grandma choose to believe that whales eat people then puke them up next week, fine - grandma can believe that, you ds do not have to believe that, but we respect grandma's choice to believe that.

I don't teach religion, we are not religious, I don't care what orientation you are etc.  All I ask of my kiddo is that he is nice to people.

To the OP what might be helpful is to make your kids aware that grandma believes *this*, grandpa believes *that*, auntie thinks *this*, some people who live in this part of the world do *xyz* etc.

Until my kiddo was able to understand those few concepts I didn't leave him with my family either.

[kandycane]

I can across your thread and thinking why don't you allow your children believe what they choose to believe? I mean this with great respect...but you can't control what religion (if any) when they get older,no more than your parents could you:/. Your child eventually will here the stories so why not from inlaws? It sounds to me doubled standards. I don't have to except my parents beliefs but by God my child isn't going to have their own beliefs

[pek64]

There is no double standard. When the children are adults, if the OP (or any of the rest of us) refuse to respect our children's wishes, and try to force our beliefs on our grandchildren, THAT would be a double standard. The children are not yet adults, and therefore it is the parents' jobs to guide their development. If the parents object to anything, it is their right, and maybe obligation, to shelter their children from it. That is not a double standard. That is parenting.

[Linda on the move]

There is a really big difference between "hearing a story" and being told repeatedly that if you don't believe exactly the right thing and pray in exactly the right way, you will die and go to hell, a lake of fire that burnth forever, never ceasing. And that this is required because you are a sinner, and that nothing you do will ever, ever be good enough to please god.

I grew up with that, and it took years of therapy to get over it.

[Lisa85]

She doesn't respect your boundaries and she threatened to call CPS. She threatened to take away your children!!  I just can't get passed this.  All for what?  Some hypothetical inheritance she may or may not give you depending on her mood at the time?

Cut her off and be done with it. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY threatens to take my babies from me while still be granted access to them.