DTaP vaccine for babies who have pertussis....

[momtoafireteam]

I had triplets on 7/21 at 33 weeks. One came home at 2.5 weeks, one at 3.5 weeks (last week). 

Long scary story short: Yesterday AM my daughter started struggling to breathe, then stopped altogether. Of course she was rushed to the hospital and is back in the NICU. She is currently stable but not breathing on her own and is very very sick. They tested her for everything bacterial (urine, blood, spinal tap) and all was clear. She has respiratory issues and a cough- they are now saying its pertussis. They have swabbed her for it but its a send away test and we wont know 100% til tomorrow. She does not have RSV, that was also negative. 

I denied Hep B, eye drops, Vit K etc at birth. They know I am a non-vaccinator. Ironically though, I made the judgment call early in my pregnancy, knowing we would be bringing three preemies home to a house where 5 older children would be going back to school, to get our older children DTaP. That was completed many months ago. So to be clear: my older children are not vaccinated at all EXCEPT for a full course of DTaP, and my babies are not vaccinated at all. 

When speaking to the nurse this morning and she mentioned this, I asked what the course of treatment was for pertussis if it is that. She said that they treated with special antibiotics. And they give a DTaP vaccination. Then she said "We know you dont do that, so we have a social worker who will talk to you about it and has already put together information on pertussis and DTaP". 

It seems odd to give a DTaP vaccine to a baby that already has pertussis. Am I wrong? Its not going to treat/ cure it, is it? And does it need to be prevented from reoccurring by vaccine if she has already had it and therefore will have natural immunity? I cant find any information on this. Anyone know? She hasnt even been diagnosed yet, but if it comes back positive they are going to move very quickly and I would like to know what I am dealing with. 

Insight from you brilliant mamas?

[Minerva23]

Sorry to hear about your baby's problem. I hope she will come through just fine.

As far as the vaccine goes, I would say whatever her immune system is struggling with should be the only thing at the moment. If a vaccine is administered than her immune system will have a lot more to take care of. If she already has pertussis than what good would the vaccine do her, since her body is already working on the antibodies. And unless there is an immediate threat of contracting tetanus and/or diphtheria while in the hospital, I would not let her have the vaccine.
 

[Bokonon]

That doesn't sound right to me.  Especially considering she is not at the minimum age for the first dose, which is 2 months (the vaccine is tested for efficacy and safety on full-term, healthy infants, certainly not ones before due date!), and a person is not considered covered by the vaccine until after 2 or 3 doses (I forget which).

If they continue to push it, I would ask for safety information on giving the vaccine to a sick pre-term infant prior to 2 months, as I have never heard of that being acceptable before.

[emmy526]

I agree....isn't it contraindicated to vaccinate a sick infant per AAP/CDC standards?  (Oh, i forgot, they tend to forget their standards and do what they want. )

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

That doesn't sound right to me.  Especially considering she is not at the minimum age for the first dose, which is 2 months (the vaccine is tested for efficacy and safety on full-term, healthy infants, certainly not ones before due date!), and a person is not considered covered by the vaccine until after 2 or 3 doses (I forget which).

If they continue to push it, I would ask for safety information on giving the vaccine to a sick pre-term infant prior to 2 months, as I have never heard of that being acceptable before.

[thtr4me]

Absolutely they should not be vaccinating a sick infant, especially a sick preemie. Goodness, my puppy came down with kennel cough and the vet said absolutely no shots until she was completely better.

[Minerva23]

Ask the docs to see the package insert first.

http://www.immunize.org/packageinserts/pi_diphtheria.asp

Just her illness itself should be contradiction enough to not vaccinate her!
 

[momtoafireteam]

Thanks everyone. The test result is not back yet, but they seem to have decided to treat her for pertussis anyway- they started azithromycin last night without even asking me. :( I wouldn't have given consent for that, and now I dont know what to do. I feel out of control.... 

[Mirzam]

Some links for you

http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Whooping_cough_and_chameleons/

http://beyondvaccination.com/showthread.php?453-Antiobiotics-make-whooping-cough-worse.&s=6c9f2eeaff40d5a5f8d9d6030bf0526e

http://www.beyondconformity.co.nz/_blog/Hilary's_Desk/post/Whooping_cough_treatment/

I am so sorry this has happened, but unfortunately, at this point they have you between a rock and a hard place. Healing vibes to your precious little one.

[Mirzam]

Another article, written by Suzanne Humphries MD:

Treating Infants With Whooping Cough

Quote:

Being left in the medical scenario would certainly seem to place infected infants at a disadvantage.Conventional doctors only know to give antibiotics, which can actually make the cough worse and lead to depressed bowel immunity and colitis as well allergic reactions. They will take the infant from the mother and possibly insist on formula feeding via nasogastric tube. The infant will be left in an oxygen tent to cough, have its arm strapped to a board with an IV, and have daily blood drawn. And as you can see in the photo of this infant pictured who has pertussis they will leave it to cough lying on its back, which will prevent proper mucus expelling, and lead to increased risk of infection and complications. They will be given NO vitamin C at all. All of this sets the framework for a poor outcome.

 

[nukuspot]

Hi...So sorry to hear this. You are in my DDC (I don't post there often). I could see them wanting to give DTaP to the other 2 babies to prevent them catching WC (though I agree it is unsafe to give to preemies under the usual 2mo of age) but I cannot see the rationale behind wanting to give it to your sick one. She is currently creating her own antibodies to WC if in fact she does have it (which they don't even know yet!) So it makes no sense to give the vaccine in this case. I think there is a good chance the nurse has no idea what she is talking about. Do you have a family pediatrician you can ask? Or even a hospitalist pediatrician? Keep us posted!

[Marnica]

just wondering what the swab came back as??

Thinking of your precious baby. Hope she is ok

[Bokonon]

Thinking of you and hoping your LO is much better by now.

[eireann]

How is everything? Please give an update. Hope all is much better.

[momtoafireteam]

So sorry everyone, didn't mean to run away.

She was/ is positive. Her triplet brothers and the rest of us in the house were all negative. All 11 of us have been treated with zpack but I don't hold much hope that more people won't get it.

She spent a week in the NICU and came home on Tuesday. I don't know if that was the rght thing to do. She has these coughing episodes that are truly terrifying, she turns blue, can't breathe, goes limp etc. they say this could last weeks. I am just constantly terrified she is going to die in my arms. Or worse, when I am asleep etc.

The boys and one of my older DDs have a greeny runny nose and a slight cough now and I am scared its starting for them.

It's a bit of a nightmare. And the irony is not lost on me that I vaccinated for this. It makes me crazy.

Thank you so much for everyone's help.

Oh, I refused the vaccine for her, citing that it was a contraindication of the vaccine itself.

[mylilmonkeys]

Hugs to you!  We went through Whooping Cough when my now 4yo was 8 mo.  It was terrifying at first, and then a long haul for her to get well.  It was close to eight weeks of coughing, predominately at night.  What I did to keep the mucus from invading her lungs was every episode, I would hold her in the baby Heimlich position and thump her back as necessary.  Truly exhausting, but we got through it.  My twins currently have chicken pox, and I hope they wait a few years before another round with Whooping Cough.  Given that it seems to reach epidemic levels every couple years around here, I'm sure it won't be long.  It was much easier for my older ones.  In fact, I didn't really suspect WC until the baby caught it and had the classic whoop.  They coughed, but it didn't seem to be extraordinarily worse than other cough/colds, just longer term.  

[Bokonon]

I'm so, so sorry you are going through this.  How scary!  Please continue to update us, as you are all in my thoughts.

[eireann]

That's terrifying. I am so sorry you are going through this.

[Jennyanydots]

I'm so sorry - must be so scary for you I hope she recovers soon. (((hugs))))

[Marnica]

wondering how you are now? hows the baby? did any other kids cme down with it?

[momtoafireteam]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

wondering how you are now? hows the baby? did any other kids cme down with it?

Thanks for asking. :) No one else came down with it, even the baby boys. I did start treating with sodium ascorbate (they wouldnt 'let' me give it separately in the NICU so I added it to my pumped BM that I was bringing in) for everyone so maybe that has a lot to do with it. 

Oh, since this post she was readmitted- I was right about feeling like she wasnt ready to come home. She fairly rapidly downward spiralled, and then late on tuesday the 4th she once again basically 'stopped'. Thankfully she in bed with us- I was almost asleep and felt her jolt and turned on the light to find her grey, lifeless, eyes wide and fixed. She wouldn't come around with stimulations, DH performed chest compressions and she did start breathing again. We called 911 and she went back to the NICU again for another week. However those first few days were awful- the cough caused desats which caused brady which all became a vicious circle. She was resuscitated a few times. However, she got MUCH better in that week and came home on the 11th. She is on apnea and brady monitors for a while but is doing a billion times better. She stills coughs a lot obviously, but they dont cause her to apnea or brady anymore. 

I hope that no one is mad for me sharing my story here on a vax forum. Let me be clear that I have no regrets about not vaxxing, and many regrets about vaxxing my older children for DTaP. This hasnt changed my opinion on anything, in fact its more concreted my non-vax beliefs. Dont get me wrong, pertussis is the worst and scariest thing to happen to us, but its separate to vaccinating.