Need to send 9y/o to school but I am worried.

[Newbie72]

Long story short, we have always homeschooled, and had planned to for the duration of our kids' school careers.  But life has changed a lot in the last 2 years.  DH lost his job, we have moved twice, I had to go back to work, DH really couldn't be the homeschooling parent (he just didn't have the personality/patience to do it) and it just won't be feasible to homeschool our girls anymore.  Dh is starting a new job soon, I am working as well, and I am trying to go back to school, all in the name of getting our family to a better place. 

DD2 is 5 and will be starting kindergarten next week. I think she will be fine; it's early in the game and she is above and beyond excited about going.  What I am worried about is DD1.  She is 9, and we took a very relaxed almost unschooly approach when we started out.  I am positive her reading is on a 4th grade level, she likes to read graphic novels as well as horror/mystery fiction, we read together all the time and she has surprised me by how far she has come with her reading.  I am very concerned about math though.  That has been a big struggle for both of us, it took a little while to find a curriculum that we both liked, there was a big power struggle going on between us when we'd work on math together too, in addition to all the transitions and big changes we've had in the last couple years.  I know she is at a second grade level in math.  It has been hard to keep a consistent schedule to work on it with her; she picks up on what we are learning really quickly but at the moment we have only made it as far as adding/subtracting without regrouping.  I am really beating myself up over the fact that we lost so much time and couldn't get it together to help her more in this area.  I feel like such a failure because I know she'll be so far behind and I think of all the things I could have done differently.  Like I should have just stuck her in school from the get-go.  Or I could have pushed her harder (but I don't see how, it has was so hard to motivate her and get her to cooperate up until recently).  Argh I feel like I screwed it all up.

How will this work?  If we start her in school are they going to keep her back in 3rd grade because of her math level?  Will they put her in 4th but give her extra help to get her up to speed?  I am so worried that they will look at me like I'm a negligent mother or something because she's behind.  I am also worried that this is going mess with her self-esteem, she is a really sensitive kid.  I feel like even though my intentions were good I just completely screwed things up regarding my little girl's education.

I know that she will probably be fine.  I need advice from people that have done this before on what to expect in this situation.

[Emmeline II]

She'll likely be placed according to her age (schools seem to hate doing otherwise) and given extra help to get her up to speed.

Will she be going into 3rd or 4th grade? My ds just started third and it doesn't seem to me that your dd is that behind if it's 3rd. If you are able you could consider something like Mathnasium; we did that for the summer to work on ds' weak areas but plan on taking advantage of after-school tutoring during the school year.

I wouldn't go to the school being afraid of their judgement (they can smell your fear ). I'd try emphasizing that it took awhile to find the right math curriculum for her but once you started on it she picked it up quickly, and you're confident she will be working on grade level soon. They may not be understanding but if they are inclined to mess with you, your confidence may make them back off . The school ds was at for K had a principle who was a bully; one day she crossed the line with dh but once he stood up to her she was as nice as pie then after .
 

[Rosarium]

There is something I call "homeschool after school." Many families take time to gather the school kids around the table and supervise the homework. This is often a good opportunity to notice where your child needs extra help, and give it. My reading suggests that this approach is characteristic of families who produce kids who go on to be successful. You may not produce a Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison (he was homeschooled!) but you can be confident your children will be prepared to face the real world when the time comes.

There is no reason you can't supplement the school instruction with pages from your homeschool curriculum, as needed. You can work with your DD after school, on weekends, and on vacations, as you have the time.

Since both paents are working away from home, and the suprevision is another claim on your time, this is a very good opportunity to do something that was an integral part of my homeschool plan. Get them involved in heloing with the household chores. Choose age-appropriate tasks, and get your children working along side you, and your spouse, to get things done.

This does so much more than remove the feeling that  you are having to work two jobs (paying job and homemaking) as well as the parenting, unaided. Your children need to learn the feelnig of real work, and the satisfaction of a job well done. They can develope a sense of competence in several areas, not just school. This then leads ot a strong and VALID feeling of self-esteem. It may lead to a greater family bonding as your children see that they are beginning to contribute. Heaven knows families cannot be worse for a stronger bond between members! (The only exception I can think of is if one or more member is seriously disfunctional, like in the movie Sybil.)

Try not to loose contact with your support system, whether that's extended family, friends, homeschool group, house of worship, neighbors, or some other kind of social group. It can be very tempting when you have both parents working outside the home, but it is important to have people on your side.

Be diligent to attend as many school functions as you can, from parent-teacher conferences to class plays. Your children need to know that you are still involved in their education, and the parent who is visible is more likely to have the respect of the teachers and school staff.

[AmandaT]

When does your daughter turn 10? I was 9 for basically my entire 3rd grade year (October birthday) and I was not the oldest. There were quite a few kids with September or even summer birthdays. 

I remember not learning multiplication until 3rd grade; that was when we started it- have you checked the school's curriculum?

You shouldn't beat yourself up about your daughter *possibly* being behind in math. If anything I bet she has a stronger addition/subtraction base than many of her classmates because she learned them at her own pace, when she was ready. She spent her earliest, most formative years with someone who knew her, and how she learned, much more than a school teacher ever could, and that is fantastic! Plenty of children in the classroom fall behind (especially in areas like math!) I don't see how your situation as a parent would be any different than theirs. 

  I hope everything works out for the best!

[Newbie72]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

She'll likely be placed according to her age (schools seem to hate doing otherwise) and given extra help to get her up to speed.

Will she be going into 3rd or 4th grade? My ds just started third and it doesn't seem to me that your dd is that behind if it's 3rd. If you are able you could consider something like Mathnasium; we did that for the summer to work on ds' weak areas but plan on taking advantage of after-school tutoring during the school year.

I wouldn't go to the school being afraid of their judgement (they can smell your fear ). I'd try emphasizing that it took awhile to find the right math curriculum for her but once you started on it she picked it up quickly, and you're confident she will be working on grade level soon. They may not be understanding but if they are inclined to mess with you, your confidence may make them back off . The school ds was at for K had a principle who was a bully; one day she crossed the line with dh but once he stood up to her she was as nice as pie then after .
 

She'd be going into 4th grade.  I did sign up for time4learning last week to help her along. 

I've met the principal at this school, she seems nice, but detached, in a I-don't-do-the-dirty-work-anymore kind of way.  I don't think we'll have an issue with her.  I hope.

Originally Posted by Rosarium 

There is something I call "homeschool after school." Many families take time to gather the school kids around the table and supervise the homework. This is often a good opportunity to notice where your child needs extra help, and give it. My reading suggests that this approach is characteristic of families who produce kids who go on to be successful. You may not produce a Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison (he was homeschooled!) but you can be confident your children will be prepared to face the real world when the time comes.

There is no reason you can't supplement the school instruction with pages from your homeschool curriculum, as needed. You can work with your DD after school, on weekends, and on vacations, as you have the time.

I definitely plan on doing this.  It will be hard because I work nights and weekends, but dh will be home with them in the evenings and he can help when he can.

Since both paents are working away from home, and the suprevision is another claim on your time, this is a very good opportunity to do something that was an integral part of my homeschool plan. Get them involved in heloing with the household chores. Choose age-appropriate tasks, and get your children working along side you, and your spouse, to get things done.

We pretty much do this anyway :)

This does so much more than remove the feeling that  you are having to work two jobs (paying job and homemaking) as well as the parenting, unaided. Your children need to learn the feelnig of real work, and the satisfaction of a job well done. They can develope a sense of competence in several areas, not just school. This then leads ot a strong and VALID feeling of self-esteem. It may lead to a greater family bonding as your children see that they are beginning to contribute. Heaven knows families cannot be worse for a stronger bond between members! (The only exception I can think of is if one or more member is seriously disfunctional, like in the movie Sybil.)

Try not to loose contact with your support system, whether that's extended family, friends, homeschool group, house of worship, neighbors, or some other kind of social group. It can be very tempting when you have both parents working outside the home, but it is important to have people on your side.

Be diligent to attend as many school functions as you can, from parent-teacher conferences to class plays. Your children need to know that you are still involved in their education, and the parent who is visible is more likely to have the respect of the teachers and school staff.

Originally Posted by AmandaT 

When does your daughter turn 10? I was 9 for basically my entire 3rd grade year (October birthday) and I was not the oldest. There were quite a few kids with September or even summer birthdays. 

I remember not learning multiplication until 3rd grade; that was when we started it- have you checked the school's curriculum?

You shouldn't beat yourself up about your daughter *possibly* being behind in math. If anything I bet she has a stronger addition/subtraction base than many of her classmates because she learned them at her own pace, when she was ready. She spent her earliest, most formative years with someone who knew her, and how she learned, much more than a school teacher ever could, and that is fantastic! Plenty of children in the classroom fall behind (especially in areas like math!) I don't see how your situation as a parent would be any different than theirs. 

  I hope everything works out for the best!

My daughter turns 10 next march.  I am positive they would have been doing multiplication for 3rd grade; dd's best friend goes to this school and I remember her talking about working on it in school throughout the year. 

As for her being behind, we homeschooled her to meet her where she was at, and to do things at her readiness and pace, and we always thought we would, but you know, things change,  I wasn't ever really expecting to send her to school where she'd have to learn on someone else's time table, so I know that we did what was best for her.  I'm just afraid of her feeling inadequate or mess with her self-esteem because she is so sensitive about that kind of thing.

Another thing:  because of dh's new job, we may have to move...again.  i don't want to put this kid in school next week only to pull her out again.  It will be a huge adjustment for her as it is, I don't want to uproot her as soon as she is figuring out how to navigate this school thing.  Like I said, I don't think the adjustment will be as big a deal for her little sister, dd2 is just one of those unflappable people.  dd1...not so much.

Part of me just wants to put her in to get it over with but then part of me just wants to keep her home for a couple more months and do time4learning until we figure out where we will be.  School/new job/new home/no more homeschooling seems like such a huge bunch of things to throw at a kid all at once, you know?

[whatsnextmom]

They would place her by her age unless you asked that she be held back. Is she a young 9 or an older 9? Do you know what the school cut-offs are and how prevalent red-shirting is in your area (the practice of starting eligible kids into kindergarten later.) In my particular area, there are always 9-year-olds in 3rd grade. There are even 3rd graders turning 10. We have a late cut-off in my area but red-shirting practices can be extreme.

Level wise, math at 2nd grade and reading at 4th, I'd put her in 3rd grade. Every grade has a normal range of kids from a year advanced to a year behind. There will be plenty of 3rd graders reading at 4th/5th grade levels. 3rd grade is heavy on writing and more open-ended language arts projects so easier to accommodate higher readers. 4th grade math can be tougher for kids as it gets a little less tangible... mostly division, fractions, decimals and word problems. 

I'm not a fan of "too old" kids in younger grades BUT, there are cases where it makes sense. If she's a young 9, I think 3rd grade would be a better fit. If she's close to 10 and would be with largely 8 and young 9's, I'd not be so comfortable with 3rd. However, I'd want a real conversation with the school on what they can do to get her to her peers if she goes to 4th.

Don't be hard on yourself. Kids focus on what they need to focus on. I'm sure she's strong in areas her peers are simply because she's had more freedom to explore other areas. Barring any learning disabilities, the academics will fall into place quickly I suspect.

[Linda on the move]

We homeschooled in a relaxed way until the kids were 10 and 12, and then they entered a traditional public school. Both my kids were behind in math.

The way it played out for us is that the kids were placed in grade by age. School is an age thing, not an ability thing. Every class room has a range of levels and most teachers are accustomed to accommodating.

Both my kids were tested by the school in basic subjects before they started. This didn't impact there placement, but gave the teachers a heads up about where they were and gave the school a chance to see if there were major issues. Neither of my kids found this at all traumatic. The tests showed pretty much what I expected. They scored behind on math, but not as behind as I feared. The school was super nice to me and my kids. I also felt like you, that I had kinda screwed up, but the school was able to see their strengths as well as weakness.

At the beginning of the year, math REALLY reviews. The first few chapters of the book are all review. My advice is for you or DH to sit down with your DD and help her with her math homework. Depending on how her brain works, she may be able to use the first few months of school to play catch up.

That's how it worked for one of my DDs. She worked her butt off in math for a few months, and then was in the middle of the pack in her class. By the end of the year, she was one of the top students. For her, she was always math bright but lacked any desire to work on it without the structure of other students and a little competition. She was a totally different kid once she started school -- in a really good way. (We would never go back to homeschooling her)
 

Many schools have what is called "response to intervention."  This is a program where kids get extra tutoring in a subject that is a struggle for them. It doesn't require any testing to get in, just being behind the standards. It's a chance to get extra help in a smaller group with a teacher with special training. It may be that something like this is suggested for your child.

For my other DD, math continued to be a struggle. She is one of those people whom math is difficult for. Homeschooling in a relaxed way had masked that she had special needs, and they came glaring into the spot light once she started school, which was difficult at the time, but best for her in the long run. She has done much better with teachers trained in teaching math. She is in high school now, and will start Algebra II this year. It's been a lot of work to get her there -- for her, for her teachers, and for us as parents. None the less, I'm quite sure that she is doing better at math now than she would have if we had continued homeschooling.

Also, from a BTDT POV, my kids were very exhausted when they started school. They came home tired, more so than there peers. There was a big adjustment. I like mathnesium and we've used it (and may use it again) but I wouldn't start it at the same time as starting school, nor would I suggest also doing homeschooling curriculum. Help your kid get through their homework. That's enough. And if sometimes it's too much, write the teacher and email and also for leniency. This is an adjustment in a lot of ways, and your child will need time to play and relax.

Good luck!!!! 

[beanma]

My dd2 is going into 3rd grade. Last year in 2nd they covered addition and subtraction and finished with a smidge of multiplication I believe (like picture problems—really easy stuff). Going into 3rd grade they are expected to have mastered regrouping and multi-digit addition and subtraction and will be working on multiplication (and maybe division) in 3rd. I believe in our state they do fractions and decimals in 4th. My dd1 did 4th in a private school so I'm not quite sure what goes on in there. In 5th she was doing multi digit multiplication and division and some beginning algebraic thinking along with some basic geometry (no theorems or anything, but stuff about angles and perimeter, area, volume, etc), fractions, decimals, percentages, etc. They both have had a good number of word problems. 

What I would do is work with her some more at home and get her up to speed on regrouping in both subtraction and addition before school starts. She should be able to do that. And have her practice doing some 3 digit problems if you haven't done many of those so she won't be freaked out by that. You can start easy with things like 333 + 222 so she can easily see that 3 digit addition doesn't necessarily have to be any harder than 1 digit addition. Also have her work with money if she hasn't done that much. She should be able to add up coins and tell how many make a dollar. Also money math is a foundation for work with fractions (1 quarter = 1/4 dollar) and decimals ($1.25). 

For multiplication if she likes video games you might check out www.timezattack.com . It's a free multiplication and division video game (there is also a pay version, but the free version is perfectly adequate). 

My 11 yr old recommends www.IXL.com, www.fun4thebrain.com, and www.funbrain.com . I asked her about www.studyisland.com because I know her teacher last year recommended it, but she said it was just boring. However you might wanna check it out because I think it is most like the EOGs. It is a subscription service and our elementary school gets a subscription each year. Her teacher last year when she was having some struggles in math said if she completed the sections on studyisland that could count toward her final grade/eog's. She was having some trouble making the transition from a loose, crunchy private school math environment to a public school math environment. She ended up catching up by the end of the year and didn't have to rely on the studyisland 'out', but it was a lot of work for all of us. We worked with her for her homework every night (didn't do it for her, but basically retaught the day's lesson in ways she could understand — she did not "click" with her math teacher last year at all). Luckily she had a fantastic homeroom/science/reading teacher. 

Anyway, my kids really like learning online much better than learning from worksheets. I think if you can get her caught up on the regrouping and multi-digit addition and subtraction and the money math she won't be so far behind that she can't catch up this year. If she can't do the addition and subtraction, though, she won't be able to do the multiplication, etc. Rest assured that there will be other kids who are below grade level, too, though. 

I think Whatsnext's suggestion is worth exploring, too. If there are a lot of red-shirted kids in your area it could be that 3rd grade will be a better fit. 

Another thing to consider asking the school if she could be placed in the same  4th grade class as her best friend. Schools in our area won't allow you to ask for a specific teacher, but you can describe the learning environment that best suits your child and I think request that certain kids be kept together or split apart whichever the best case may be.

Maybe you could also ask the best friend if she could help review some things with your dd. That might help your dd feel more comfortable about it all and if she has some questions about assignments in class she can always ask BF. My kids really liked it when I asked dd1 (who really does not like math) to tutor dd2. Dd1 really liked playing the teacher role and dd2 was receptive to hearing about school from someone who had been there (that is, not me). 

Good luck! How much time do you have before school starts?

[christinemm]

It sounds like you have been a very responsive mother to have customized your children's homeschooling experiences to fit their needs at the time. I am sorry you find yourself in a place where you can't continue to do as you had planned.

Regarding the grade none of us can say if they will keep her back. Just meet with the school and see what they say.

Based on what my friends have experienced in this case, the school puts them in the age/grade level then pushes the parents to pay (high) fees out of their pocket for extra private math tutoring. I know one family who was pushed to 2 visits a week with a big name after-school tutor company to "organize herself and her homework" and 2 visits for math help. That was over $300 a week in tutoring fees. At the end of the year they realized what they had spent and didn't see enough of a result from it. For that fee the student could have enrolled in a private school with smaller classrooms and perhaps done better not using the nutty math program the public school used. I am telling you this as a head's up. I am taking a guess that you are not in a position to pay such high fees for private math tutoring, if that's the case consider spending extra time with her yourself in the evening (or wake up extra early) for extra math help, if she will work with you. (My friend had a child who wanted to answer to an authority other than her mother that year).

Khanacademy.com has free math lessons, sign in with a gmail account for your daughter and she can watch math video lectures then do practice work. They log the progress and keep track of everything. IT IS FREE OF CHARGE.

Hang in there.

[Linda on the move]

I missed your second post when I posted before:

Originally Posted by Newbie72 

Another thing:  because of dh's new job, we may have to move...again.  i don't want to put this kid in school next week only to pull her out again.  It will be a huge adjustment for her as it is, I don't want to uproot her as soon as she is figuring out how to navigate this school thing.  Like I said, I don't think the adjustment will be as big a deal for her little sister, dd2 is just one of those unflappable people.  dd1...not so much.

Part of me just wants to put her in to get it over with but then part of me just wants to keep her home for a couple more months and do time4learning until we figure out where we will be.  School/new job/new home/no more homeschooling seems like such a huge bunch of things to throw at a kid all at once, you know?

What are the chances that you will be moving and if you do, when will you go going? I can see that as a reason to delay entry.

I don't, however, seeing being behind as a reason to delay entry. Chances are, your DD is not going to catch up while homeschooling. It's doing the same thing you have been, just in a slightly different way. The year my DD caught up in math she was in a classroom that dedicated a solid hour a day to math, and then we did more math at home (sometimes another hour). There's no way my DD would have put in that kind of effort while homeschooling. I also think it is easier for kids to start school at the beginning of the year. The rules are explained. The social groups are more fluid. Much of the work is review. Unless you will be moving this school year, I would start her at the beginning of the school year because in many ways it will be easier for her that way.

[Newbie72]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

We homeschooled in a relaxed way until the kids were 10 and 12, and then they entered a traditional public school. Both my kids were behind in math.

The way it played out for us is that the kids were placed in grade by age. School is an age thing, not an ability thing. Every class room has a range of levels and most teachers are accustomed to accommodating.

Both my kids were tested by the school in basic subjects before they started. This didn't impact there placement, but gave the teachers a heads up about where they were and gave the school a chance to see if there were major issues. Neither of my kids found this at all traumatic. The tests showed pretty much what I expected. They scored behind on math, but not as behind as I feared. The school was super nice to me and my kids. I also felt like you, that I had kinda screwed up, but the school was able to see their strengths as well as weakness.

At the beginning of the year, math REALLY reviews. The first few chapters of the book are all review. My advice is for you or DH to sit down with your DD and help her with her math homework. Depending on how her brain works, she may be able to use the first few months of school to play catch up.

That's how it worked for one of my DDs. She worked her butt off in math for a few months, and then was in the middle of the pack in her class. By the end of the year, she was one of the top students. For her, she was always math bright but lacked any desire to work on it without the structure of other students and a little competition. She was a totally different kid once she started school -- in a really good way. (We would never go back to homeschooling her)
 

Many schools have what is called "response to intervention."  This is a program where kids get extra tutoring in a subject that is a struggle for them. It doesn't require any testing to get in, just being behind the standards. It's a chance to get extra help in a smaller group with a teacher with special training. It may be that something like this is suggested for your child.

For my other DD, math continued to be a struggle. She is one of those people whom math is difficult for. Homeschooling in a relaxed way had masked that she had special needs, and they came glaring into the spot light once she started school, which was difficult at the time, but best for her in the long run. She has done much better with teachers trained in teaching math. She is in high school now, and will start Algebra II this year. It's been a lot of work to get her there -- for her, for her teachers, and for us as parents. None the less, I'm quite sure that she is doing better at math now than she would have if we had continued homeschooling.

Also, from a BTDT POV, my kids were very exhausted when they started school. They came home tired, more so than there peers. There was a big adjustment. I like mathnesium and we've used it (and may use it again) but I wouldn't start it at the same time as starting school, nor would I suggest also doing homeschooling curriculum. Help your kid get through their homework. That's enough. And if sometimes it's too much, write the teacher and email and also for leniency. This is an adjustment in a lot of ways, and your child will need time to play and relax.

Good luck!!!

Thank you for sharing your experience, this is very helpful.

[Newbie72]

Originally Posted by beanma 

My dd2 is going into 3rd grade. Last year in 2nd they covered addition and subtraction and finished with a smidge of multiplication I believe (like picture problems—really easy stuff). Going into 3rd grade they are expected to have mastered regrouping and multi-digit addition and subtraction and will be working on multiplication (and maybe division) in 3rd. I believe in our state they do fractions and decimals in 4th. My dd1 did 4th in a private school so I'm not quite sure what goes on in there. In 5th she was doing multi digit multiplication and division and some beginning algebraic thinking along with some basic geometry (no theorems or anything, but stuff about angles and perimeter, area, volume, etc), fractions, decimals, percentages, etc. They both have had a good number of word problems. 

What I would do is work with her some more at home and get her up to speed on regrouping in both subtraction and addition before school starts. She should be able to do that. And have her practice doing some 3 digit problems if you haven't done many of those so she won't be freaked out by that. You can start easy with things like 333 + 222 so she can easily see that 3 digit addition doesn't necessarily have to be any harder than 1 digit addition. Also have her work with money if she hasn't done that much. She should be able to add up coins and tell how many make a dollar. Also money math is a foundation for work with fractions (1 quarter = 1/4 dollar) and decimals ($1.25). 

For multiplication if she likes video games you might check out www.timezattack.com . It's a free multiplication and division video game (there is also a pay version, but the free version is perfectly adequate). 

My 11 yr old recommends www.IXL.com, www.fun4thebrain.com, and www.funbrain.com . I asked her about www.studyisland.com because I know her teacher last year recommended it, but she said it was just boring. However you might wanna check it out because I think it is most like the EOGs. It is a subscription service and our elementary school gets a subscription each year. Her teacher last year when she was having some struggles in math said if she completed the sections on studyisland that could count toward her final grade/eog's. She was having some trouble making the transition from a loose, crunchy private school math environment to a public school math environment. She ended up catching up by the end of the year and didn't have to rely on the studyisland 'out', but it was a lot of work for all of us. We worked with her for her homework every night (didn't do it for her, but basically retaught the day's lesson in ways she could understand — she did not "click" with her math teacher last year at all). Luckily she had a fantastic homeroom/science/reading teacher. 

Anyway, my kids really like learning online much better than learning from worksheets. I think if you can get her caught up on the regrouping and multi-digit addition and subtraction and the money math she won't be so far behind that she can't catch up this year. If she can't do the addition and subtraction, though, she won't be able to do the multiplication, etc. Rest assured that there will be other kids who are below grade level, too, though. 

I think Whatsnext's suggestion is worth exploring, too. If there are a lot of red-shirted kids in your area it could be that 3rd grade will be a better fit. 

Another thing to consider asking the school if she could be placed in the same  4th grade class as her best friend. Schools in our area won't allow you to ask for a specific teacher, but you can describe the learning environment that best suits your child and I think request that certain kids be kept together or split apart whichever the best case may be.

Maybe you could also ask the best friend if she could help review some things with your dd. That might help your dd feel more comfortable about it all and if she has some questions about assignments in class she can always ask BF. My kids really liked it when I asked dd1 (who really does not like math) to tutor dd2. Dd1 really liked playing the teacher role and dd2 was receptive to hearing about school from someone who had been there (that is, not me). 

Good luck! How much time do you have before school starts?

Thanks for the link suggestions, I'll have to check those out.  Anyway, school starts this week.  There won't be a whole lot of time to do a crash course in mastering addition/subtraction skills.  We have actually been working on math more this summer than we ever have and so far she can add/subtract 3 digit numbers without regrouping, she can write 3 digit numbers in expanded form, knows greater than and less than, and she can skip count in 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 10s, and 100s.  This is all stuff that she picked up on in the last 3 months, it's like it clicked for her all of a sudden, so when we do work on math she gets it pretty quickly.

Unfortunately, her best friend won't be in her grade.  She goes on to 5th grade this year at a different school. 

Originally Posted by christinemm 

It sounds like you have been a very responsive mother to have customized your children's homeschooling experiences to fit their needs at the time. I am sorry you find yourself in a place where you can't continue to do as you had planned.

Regarding the grade none of us can say if they will keep her back. Just meet with the school and see what they say.

Based on what my friends have experienced in this case, the school puts them in the age/grade level then pushes the parents to pay (high) fees out of their pocket for extra private math tutoring. I know one family who was pushed to 2 visits a week with a big name after-school tutor company to "organize herself and her homework" and 2 visits for math help. That was over $300 a week in tutoring fees. At the end of the year they realized what they had spent and didn't see enough of a result from it. For that fee the student could have enrolled in a private school with smaller classrooms and perhaps done better not using the nutty math program the public school used. I am telling you this as a head's up. I am taking a guess that you are not in a position to pay such high fees for private math tutoring, if that's the case consider spending extra time with her yourself in the evening (or wake up extra early) for extra math help, if she will work with you. (My friend had a child who wanted to answer to an authority other than her mother that year).

Khanacademy.com has free math lessons, sign in with a gmail account for your daughter and she can watch math video lectures then do practice work. They log the progress and keep track of everything. IT IS FREE OF CHARGE.

Hang in there.

Oh my god I had no idea that tutoring was so expensive.  You know what sucks?  We can get a tutor for free but not until after January.  My little brother is an Applied Math major and he is studying abroad in France until after Xmas.  I can help her until then for sure though, we've clicked better in the last few months.

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I missed your second post when I posted before:

What are the chances that you will be moving and if you do, when will you go going? I can see that as a reason to delay entry.

I don't, however, seeing being behind as a reason to delay entry. Chances are, your DD is not going to catch up while homeschooling. It's doing the same thing you have been, just in a slightly different way. The year my DD caught up in math she was in a classroom that dedicated a solid hour a day to math, and then we did more math at home (sometimes another hour). There's no way my DD would have put in that kind of effort while homeschooling. I also think it is easier for kids to start school at the beginning of the year. The rules are explained. The social groups are more fluid. Much of the work is review. Unless you will be moving this school year, I would start her at the beginning of the school year because in many ways it will be easier for her that way.

I'll get back to your post in the morning.  I need to think on this for a bit.

Thanks everyone for your help in sorting this out.

[Newbie72]

Ok Linda on the Move, your question is keeping me up right now, so I thought about it and this is where we are at.  DH finds out whether or not he has landed this job for sure on Tuesday.  With that job is going to come more income and we will be able to afford a better home to rent (we are not buying for a long time, the last 2 years we have dealt with a lot of upheaval--job loss, foreclosure, bankruptcy, fun stuff).  No one in this house is particularly thrilled with living here.  We're not fans of the area, the house itself has issues, our neighborhood sucks, our landlord is basically an @$$****, we are 40 minutes away from any kind of support system.  So while we've wanted to to get out of here for a while now, we've been stuck because it is what we can afford.  But if he gets this job then we can look for something better.  I can deal with staying here 'til the end of the school year just to see dd1 through it in one school, DH is adamantly against staying here and wants to leave the moment a better living situation comes along.  So that means that yeah, we'd probably be moving this year.

These are the things that can happen with this:

1.  We send her to school and we end up pulling her out at some point to move and putting her in school somewhere else.  I hate this option and I'm afraid it will screw her up even more.

2.  We send her to school and we find a better rental in the area so she won't have to switch schools.  I think this would be best.

3.  We don't send her to school and just continue to work on math together until we figure where we're going to be living. This might not be so bad because at least her little sister won't be around for part of the day and we can work together in peace and quiet for once.  I can assure that butthurt will ensue because dd1 is awfully jealous of dd2 going to school.  But I cannot have the 2 of them home together anymore, we can't get anything done.

[beanma]

Newbie, if you've got a week I bet you can get her up to speed on regrouping if she can do all that other stuff. It's not that hard and it sounds like she's got the perfect basis for it. Here's a website that teaches it pretty simply:

http://www.coolmath4kids.com/addition/05-addition-lesson-two-digit-numbers-01.html

And there are lots of youtube videos, too!

http://youtu.be/QAL8XxyGVow

http://youtu.be/TALjvm0hhLs

Does she have an understanding of place value? That is, the 4 in 42 is in the tens place and stands for 4 sets of ten or 40, and the 2 is in the ones place and just stands for 2 ones? If she understands place value I think she can catch on to regrouping really quickly if you work with her. I wouldn't send her to 4th grade w/o at least attempting that at home with her. There will be kids in 4th grade that don't have all their times tables down (although they will have covered it), but there will be an expectation that they can all do basic regrouping. Regrouping is really an mid-year 2nd grade skill.

Again, if she's not going to be with the best friend in 4th grade you might want to consider red-shirting her to 3rd grade if that's common in your area. It really sounds like that's closer to her skill level right now. My rising 3rd grader has a basic understanding of multiplication (skip counting is beginning multiplying, too, so sounds like your dd does too), fractions, and has mastery of addition and subtraction, including regrouping. She is bright and is ready and eager for more, but she's where she needs to be as far as grade level. (I mean, she's brighter than some of the other 2nd graders from last year, but she doesn't need to grade-skip.) She's well ahead in reading and is regularly reading 200 to 300 page books like the first three Harry Potters (stalled out on 4). She's 8 (late Nov birthday), but sounds like she's around your dd's level. So if you put your dd in 3rd, there might very well be other 3rd graders like my dd2 who would be at her skill level.

If you can get her up to 3rd grade level in math I would consider 4th grade and hope she can make it up, but if you can't get her there then I would seriously consider putting her in 3rd. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable having her be 2 grade levels behind in math, but do meet with the principal and lay it out and see what she/he recommends. I think Emmeline's advice about projecting an air of confidence that she will be able to get up to speed is spot on, and definitely approach it with a "how can we work together" or even "how can I help you help her" attitude.

I think it will be all right, really, and I'm pretty sure you could get her regrouping simple two digit addition problems in 30 minutes if she can do all that other stuff, so give it a try!

best of luck,

Edited by beanma - 8/26/12 at 9:17am

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Newbie72 

Oh my god I had no idea that tutoring was so expensive. 

most tutoring is NOT that expensive. When our kids did mathnesuim, it was something like $50 per month, and it was really good for them.

Originally Posted by Newbie72 

(we are not buying for a long time, the last 2 years we have dealt with a lot of upheaval--job loss, foreclosure, bankruptcy, fun stuff).  No one in this house is particularly thrilled with living here.  We're not fans of the area, the house itself has issues, our neighborhood sucks, our landlord is basically an @$$****, we are 40 minutes away from any kind of support system.  So while we've wanted to to get out of here for a while now, we've been stuck because it is what we can afford.  But if he gets this job then we can look for something better.  I can deal with staying here 'til the end of the school year just to see dd1 through it in one school, DH is adamantly against staying here and wants to leave the moment a better living situation comes along.  So that means that yeah, we'd probably be moving this year.

  I'm so, sorry for the situation you are you in right now and all the stress your family has been in for the last few years. I hope that your luck turns, and quickly.

It is so, so hard to know what will be *best* for our kids. May be if you soften your own thinking to believe that which ever path you chose right now, there will be some good things about it for your DD, and that things will be easier and clearer later. Sometimes, there isn't a right option and a wrong option, just best guesses. You guys will get through this, and there is a happier, easier future.

I can really understand not wanting to start a child in school knowing that they will most likely need to transition to another school shortly, esp if it is a child who doesn't do great with transitions. (we've moved a lot due to my DH's job, and it's been tough for my kids).

But it also sounds like she would like to try school, and her being in school would add structure to your day and might help you get other needed things done. In some ways, I find it easier.

I can see why this is such a difficult decision.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by Newbie72 

Oh my god I had no idea that tutoring was so expensive.  You know what sucks?  We can get a tutor for free but not until after January.  My little brother is an Applied Math major and he is studying abroad in France until after Xmas.  I can help her until then for sure though, we've clicked better in the last few months.

Tutoring doesn't need to be that expensive. Those programs like Sylvan are outrageous and really, I wouldn't use unless your child had learning disabilities or something extreme. Most people in our area use them to try and make average and bright kids into super high achievers instead of helping struggling kids (though that could just be my area.) Helping a child with elementary school math?.. you could get a retired teacher or reliable high school/college student for 25 bucks an hour. A retired teacher or a college student working on their teaching credential is good when you feel alternate learning methods need to be considered. If she's making good progress but held back by the mother/child dynamic (which I could totally understand by-the-way,) a high school or regular college student would be just fine and even seem "cool." 

[Newbie72]

Originally Posted by beanma 

Newbie, if you've got a week I bet you can get her up to speed on regrouping if she can do all that other stuff. It's not that hard and it sounds like she's got the perfect basis for it. Here's a website that teaches it pretty simply:

http://www.coolmath4kids.com/addition/05-addition-lesson-two-digit-numbers-01.html

And there are lots of youtube videos, too!

http://youtu.be/QAL8XxyGVow

http://youtu.be/TALjvm0hhLs

Does she have an understanding of place value? That is, the 4 in 42 is in the tens place and stands for 4 sets of ten or 40, and the 2 is in the ones place and just stands for 2 ones? If she understands place value I think she can catch on to regrouping really quickly if you work with her. I wouldn't send her to 4th grade w/o at least attempting that at home with her. There will be kids in 4th grade that don't have all their times tables down (although they will have covered it), but there will be an expectation that they can all do basic regrouping. Regrouping is really an mid-year 2nd grade skill.

Again, if she's not going to be with the best friend in 4th grade you might want to consider red-shirting her to 3rd grade if that's common in your area. It really sounds like that's closer to her skill level right now. My rising 3rd grader has a basic understanding of multiplication (skip counting is beginning multiplying, too, so sounds like your dd does too), fractions, and has mastery of addition and subtraction, including regrouping. She is bright and is ready and eager for more, but she's where she needs to be as far as grade level. (I mean, she's brighter than some of the other 2nd graders from last year, but she doesn't need to grade-skip.) She's well ahead in reading and is regularly reading 200 to 300 page books like the first three Harry Potters (stalled out on 4). She's 8 (late Nov birthday), but sounds like she's around your dd's level. So if you put your dd in 3rd, there might very well be other 3rd graders like my dd2 who would be at her skill level.

If you can get her up to 3rd grade level in math I would consider 4th grade and hope she can make it up, but if you can't get her there then I would seriously consider putting her in 3rd. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable having her be 2 grade levels behind in math, but do meet with the principal and lay it out and see what she/he recommends. I think Emmeline's advice about projecting an air of confidence that she will be able to get up to speed is spot on, and definitely approach it with a "how can we work together" or even "how can I help you help her" attitude.

I think it will be all right, really, and I'm pretty sure you could get her regrouping simple two digit addition problems in 30 minutes if she can do all that other stuff, so give it a try!

best of luck,

She totally gets place value, up the  thousands at the moment.  We have briefly touched on regrouping and she seemed to get it but we haven't worked on it in depth.  We're using Singapore Math and she likes it a lot, we had started out with MathUSee which gave her a decent foundation but was too dry for us.  That's how she learned place value. 

When I speak with the school and it is determined it might be best to put her in 3rd grade I would probably feel better for that but I'm pretty sure she'd be really butthurt over being held back from the grade she's "supposed" to be in.

[Newbie72]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

most tutoring is NOT that expensive. When our kids did mathnesuim, it was something like $50 per month, and it was really good for them.

  I'm so, sorry for the situation you are you in right now and all the stress your family has been in for the last few years. I hope that your luck turns, and quickly.

It is so, so hard to know what will be *best* for our kids. May be if you soften your own thinking to believe that which ever path you chose right now, there will be some good things about it for your DD, and that things will be easier and clearer later. Sometimes, there isn't a right option and a wrong option, just best guesses. You guys will get through this, and there is a happier, easier future.

I can really understand not wanting to start a child in school knowing that they will most likely need to transition to another school shortly, esp if it is a child who doesn't do great with transitions. (we've moved a lot due to my DH's job, and it's been tough for my kids).

But it also sounds like she would like to try school, and her being in school would add structure to your day and might help you get other needed things done. In some ways, I find it easier.

I can see why this is such a difficult decision.

Thanks for the hugs I do appreciate all the feedback everyone has given me, I really do. 

Yeah, we're trying really hard to get to a stable place.  It sucks.  I feel like the upheaval has affected dd1 the most.  On top of all of the financial/moving troubles, the one stable thing we had, which was our really close-knit homeschool group, disbanded.  Her best friends moved away to Missouri, other friends ended up in public school, some moms had a HUGE fallout and really split the group up, it all sucked, and at the end of it, we lost most of our support group.  Many of the homeschoolers around here are uber-Christian which is not our thing, and I've been having a hard time organizing any kind of social life because of my weird schedule.  All this stuff happened right around the time that having a social group was becoming really important to her.  I hate the way things have gone.

I feel like we've been doing a series of guesses for a while, and I'd just really like something to work out for once.  I'm just going to keep supporting her so she knows even though there is a lot of other uncertainty the one thing that isn't going anywhere is her family.  She does want to try school, she really does.  I think giving her something new to do would lift her spirits.  I told her that if we start her in school this week, there is a chance she might have to go to another one sometime this year, and she's just kind of whatever about it.  Who knows, she just might be stronger than I thought and will roll with it.

[moominmamma]

Tons of what goes on in school is review of the previous year's work. I would venture that most of what goes on in math during the first month or more at the 4th grade level is likely to be 2nd and 3rd grade review work. She can spend that time learning and consolidating. Maybe she'll need extra help, but I bet she'll be open to it. If, as you say, something has clicked in the last three months, she'll probably move ahead quickly. Not without some work necessary, to be sure. But don't panic. I wouldn't make a decision about grade placement based on the fact that she's only recently begun to gobble up in math, one of several academic areas. Especially if she's going to feel hurt because of it. Schools are used to dealing with up to about a year's worth of range in abilities on either side of the nominal grade. She is very unlikely to be alone in her lack of mastery of 3rd grade math in a 4th grade classroom.

Miranda

[ameliabedelia]

Ok Linda on the Move, your question is keeping me up right now, so I thought about it and this is where we are at.  DH finds out whether or not he has landed this job for sure on Tuesday.  With that job is going to come more income and we will be able to afford a better home to rent (we are not buying for a long time, the last 2 years we have dealt with a lot of upheaval--job loss, foreclosure, bankruptcy, fun stuff).  No one in this house is particularly thrilled with living here.  We're not fans of the area, the house itself has issues, our neighborhood sucks, our landlord is basically an @$$****, we are 40 minutes away from any kind of support system.  So while we've wanted to to get out of here for a while now, we've been stuck because it is what we can afford.  But if he gets this job then we can look for something better.  I can deal with staying here 'til the end of the school year just to see dd1 through it in one school, DH is adamantly against staying here and wants to leave the moment a better living situation comes along.  So that means that yeah, we'd probably be moving this year.

These are the things that can happen with this:

1.  We send her to school and we end up pulling her out at some point to move and putting her in school somewhere else.  I hate this option and I'm afraid it will screw her up even more.

2.  We send her to school and we find a better rental in the area so she won't have to switch schools.  I think this would be best.

It sounds like are talking about a fairly local move, so I would check with your school district on their policy about students that move mid-year into a new neighborhood (out of the area for their zoned school) or even to a different district.  I think many districts would allow the child to finish out the school year in the original school ( of course she wouldn't be able to get bussing, so you would have to do drop-off/pick up every day), and then the following year they would have to enroll in a new school.   It would be better than switching mid-year, which I do think would be very hard.   And, I also agree that it is much, much easier to start school at the beginning of the year if possible, so if you are going to delay school entry, I would delay an entire year, not just a few months (until you move).

Good luck, I hope your DH gets the better job.