What is the Orthodox Church? - Page 5

[kaleidoscopeeyes]

Originally Posted by lilyka

if you have any questions let me know. If you like I can PM you a link to a messege board that is all about Orthodoxy. its a very imformative sweet place but I am not sure if it would come up on a search.

I would love a link to the message board if you get a chance.

[umsami]

OK... just saw this... and since DH is Egyptian, thought I'd add a little bit about the Copts. (Orthodox Christians in Egypt.... Coptic Church of Alexandria). It was established by Saint Mark in the 1st century... or so tradition goes. It's headed by a Pope.... who has this very snazzy title of Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of All Africa on the Holy See of Saint Mark.

They're known for having the oldest Catechetical school.... and basically, a lot of the early Christian scholars studied there... debated there... etc. The Copts are also the fathers of monasticism.

There is a difference in belief (or so I'm lead to believe) on Christology between the Copts and the Eastern Orthodox. The Copts believe (copying from Wiki):

The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria believes that Christ is perfect in His divinity, and He is perfect in His humanity, but His divinity and His humanity were united in one nature called "the nature of the incarnate word", which was reiterated by Saint Cyril of Alexandria.

Copts, thus, believe in two natures "human" and "divine" that are united in one hypostasis "without mingling, without confusion, and without alteration"

.

They follow the Julian calendar... and they fast a lot. 210 days per year! (Although it's not the same as Muslim fasting. When we fast, usually one wakes up prior to sunrise...eats breakfast...drinks a ton of water... and then has nothing until sunset. After sunset, people break their fast with water/milk and dates or soup (usually lentil)... then have a big meal. In Coptic Christian fasting, it's more like being vegan a lot. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting..._of_Alexandria

Of course, if there are any Copts on the boards, I'm sure they can contribute more. I've learned a bit from Egyptians in this country who are Copts... .an Egyptian cookbook I have... and just curiosity.

On a side note..and a good step towards tolerance, the Grand Mufti of Egypt (head Muslim guy) a few years ago said that Muslims who do decide to convert to Christianity (which in Egypt, usually means Coptic) should not be punished. That may sound normal to you and me, but it's a big step in improving tolerance/freedom.

[lilyka]

actually the situation in Egypt is very very bad right now. Christians are under very heavy persecutions by Muslims and many died after nativity services when a religously motivated group opened fire into a group of deacons. services had been intentionally finished early due to threats and increasing violence. Had it not been many more people may have lain dead. The Orthodox Christians are under heavy persecution in Egypt and I fear the Christmas eve slayings were only the beginning.

[umsami]

Copts actually are a pretty protected minority in Egypt. The only religious minority which really is persecuted are the Bahais. Copts have access to pretty much any position/job, university, etc. Coptic Christian holidays are official holidays along with Muslim holidays.

There have been incidents in Upper Egypt, which contrary to common belief, is actually in the South, between both parties. Amnesty International calls it sporadic violence... and there are incidents initiated by both parties. It's an area known for vendetta and honor killings. The violence in Nag Hammadi over Christmas was over the rape of a 12 year old Muslim girl by a Coptic Christian man, Girgis Baroumi Girgis, in November. (His trial was recently postponed, BTW.)

Do I think those six people deserved to die? Absolutely not. Do I think it was wrong that this happened at a church on a religious day? Absolutely. Vendetta violence and violence in general is wrong... but this did not start out of a "let's get the Coptic Christians." There was the kidnapping and rape of a 12 year old child first.

[mamabadger]

Copts, thus, believe in two natures "human" and "divine" that are united in one hypostasis "without mingling, without confusion, and without alteration"

To be more specific, Copts are Monophysites. They believe that Jesus' two natures were united, but since one of those natures was divine, it naturally overwhelmed his human nature. Therefore, they believe Jesus did not suffer, die, or experience any human weaknesses, although he may have appeared to do so in the eyes of observers. This belief can be seen in Coptic icons of the Crucifixion, in which Jesus is actually smiling while nailed to the cross, to demonstrate that he is not experiencing human suffering. The Orthodox view, on the other hand, is that Jesus Christ was divine but also fully human.

They follow the Julian calendar... and they fast a lot. 210 days per year!

Most Orthodox also follow the Julian calendar (although many jurisdictions use the "new" or Gregorian calendar, the secular calendar we all use), and fast "vegan" style about half the days of the year in all.

[umsami]

mamabadger, I know there have been quite a few studies done on the health aspects of following the Seventh Day Adventist diet/lifestyle... as well as a few done on LDS/Mormons. Do you know of any regarding Orthodox Christians as well? I would assume that if they are vegan half of the year, that there would be less incidence of heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

[kaleidoscopeeyes]

Funnily enough, the only orthodox person I've ever known was Coptic. I think that may be why I was under the false impression that all Orthodox Churches were autonomous as opposed to autocephalous. The Julian calendar and the fasting were fascinating to me. Fasting in the RCC is pretty lax. My calender from the Church defines fasting as "one full meal and two small meals allowed" and abstinence as "no meat." We only fast less than 10 days a year. He was dating a friend of mine (who is Muslim) and the religious difference was too big for him, so I've lost touch with him. It would be nice to be able to pick is brain about some of the things I've been reading even though I'm focused more on the Eastern Orthodox tradition. No one I know IRL knows anything about the Orthodox Church, save what they saw in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Yay for MBs!

[kitchen]

Just found this thread (and this forum). Glad to see there are other Orthodox ladies here!

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by umsami

Copts actually are a pretty protected minority in Egypt.

This is actually pretty true. The religious situation in Egypt is complicated, but it has a lot more to do with strong social segregation leading to a total lack of comprehension of social groups different from one's own than persecution. What is between Copts and Muslims in Egypt is not so different from what is between different sects of Muslims there, between clan affiliations in southern Egypt, between socioeconomic classes, on some levels between genders, etc. While obviously there can be very different implications for a 10% that is so utterly "othered" by a 90% than for a 90% othered by the 10%, the root of the problem is the segregation that is so totally socially acceptable on all sides. Keeping away from people not like yourself is practically a national pastime.

(Butting back out, 'cause I know this all has nothing to do with the actual thread ... )

[Arduinna]

So funny to see this thread still going after almost 6 years. And I'm glad I'm better informed than when I started it LOL

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by umsami

mamabadger, I know there have been quite a few studies done on the health aspects of following the Seventh Day Adventist diet/lifestyle... as well as a few done on LDS/Mormons. Do you know of any regarding Orthodox Christians as well? I would assume that if they are vegan half of the year, that there would be less incidence of heart disease, cancer, and stroke.

Interesting question. I have never heard of any studies of this kind. You also have to take into account the fact that fasts are followed by feasts, and many people make up for the fast by overindulging when they are over.

Originally Posted by kaleidoscopeeyes

No one I know IRL knows anything about the Orthodox Church, save what they saw in My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

This is something I have discussed with Orthodox people before. The church seems mysteriously invisible to most. There are twelve Orthodox churches in town, yet most people claim they have never heard of Orthodoxy before, much less know anything about it.

[lilyka]

I remember reading a study about the monks on Mt Athos but they follow a much stricter fast and more often than most lay people. I will see if I can find the article though.

hey look! there it is...:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle3007206.ece