So glad for this forum! - Page 2

[BeckyBird]

Yes, but the problem is with their training. They are taught by what they believe is the absolute authority on medicine and science, so they have no reason to question. Also, anyone who questions the medical dogma is labeled a dirty "conspiracy theorist" and doctors certainly don't want that!  Just look at the way doctors who have questioned vaccines are treated.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Yes, but the problem is with their training. They are taught by what they believe is the absolute authority on medicine and science, so they have no reason to question.

Suppose they are taught 2 + 2 = 5 are they supposed to believe that?

Suppose they are taught 7 is less than 5 are they supposed to believe that?

Suppose they are taught toxic drugs are the cure for chronic disease are they supposed to believe that? Trick question.

The job of a pediatrician is the care and nurturing of children, mothers of children and fetuses of mothers. I don't give a damn what they are taught. This is their JOB. Their job is helping living breathing people. 70% of the mothers will do ANYTHING their doctor says. Life and death! Responsibility! All I ask is they do their JOB.

Any doctor with a few years under his belt will tell you their real training STARTS once they have acquired their MD.

It takes relatively few hours of targeted study to start to question "vaccination". The very least I expect of these doctors of babies is to tell mothers "You must make your own mind up about "vaccination; I myself have some doubts".

[Taximom5]

Louis, you're assuming they've read the same studies you have.

They haven't. And they are not expected nor required to.  They are expected to read whatever is provided to them by the pharma-organized "continuing medical education" courses in order to maintain Board Certification.

They are bombarded from day one onwards with the tweaked pharma-funded studies, that make it look like vaccines are safe and effective.

They are given misleading "statistics"  (that are really estimates base on incorrect data) that make it look like US babies are in mortal danger from hep B, flu, and rotavirus.

They have been taught for the last 30 years that measles kills thousands of infants.  Very few doctors trained in the last 30 years have ever SEEN measles, so of course, they have no way of knowing that it's usually mild for most healthy babies.  And for those few babies that do end up with measles--well, today's babies and children are NOT healthy, because their immune systems have been screwed up by vaccines.  So, yeah, measles is now more dangerous than it was, and children today are more likely to be vitamin-deficient than children were 50 years ago.

They have been taught that vaccine reactions are vanishingly rare, and that side effects are pretty much limited to swelling and redness, and a little fever. They are taught that other severe symptoms "around" the time of vaccines are coincidence, and that they shouldn't waste their time looking there.

They are fed hard-core propaganda for their entire schooling, AND given constant repeat doses throughout their entire career.

To expect them to be able to see the truth the way YOU see it, in spite of all that, is very naive.

I think it's a pretty good bet that YOU didn't know all this when you were right out of college. You probably had no clue, and probably didn't think to do any research until one of your own children was affected--which makes you just like the rest of us, doctors included.

And, unfortunately, some of the sites that offer the "targeted study" you refer to also contain a lot of extremist propaganda of their own, thereby rendering them worse than useless.

[BeckyBird]

Yes, it is the pediatrician's job to nurture and care for children. They have no reason to question their education, because they have a borderline religious faith in that system.  Try to tell them that their education was based on faulty information and decades of lies, and see how far that will get you. That is why it will take us in mass, with persistence, to pressure the system to change. We are dealing with a population of die-hard believers in a failed system!

At a certain point, when the scales tip and truth begins to prevail, only then will the majority of people begin to change. We are in the age of information as well as DISinformation. The pediatricians have been taught that vaccine science is proven and safe, and everything to the contrary is disinformation. For them to change, they will have to go much deeper than questioning vaccines. They will be required to question their entire belief system, and that is a lot to ask from your average closed-minded person. Unfortunately, as I type this, children are being harmed by vaccines and bad medical practices. I understand your impatience with the medical professionals, because I feel the same way. However, you need to remember that in order for these doctors to change, they must essentially discard their entire "faith" system and start anew, and that will take a long time. Sad fact, but that's where we are right now.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Yes, it is the pediatrician's job to nurture and care for children. They have no reason to question their education, because they have a borderline religious faith in that system. ...

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Louis, you're assuming they've read the same studies you have. ...

Yes everything you good women have said is a factor.

But in my heart of hearts I believe this simple truth about human nature is the OVERRIDING factor.

"How many times must a man look away and pretend that he just doesn't see?"

This is only my opinion.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

"How many times must a man look away and pretend that he just doesn't see?"

What you are describing, though, is, unfortunately, the worst part of human nature, and we see it over and over and over again in history.

Look back to the time in America when African-Americans were supposedly free and equal, but were forced to sit in the back of the bus, were not allowed in restaurants, schools, swimming pools, movie theaters, were prevented from voting, from owning homes, attending state universities, could only aspire to the most menial of jobs, etc.  

How many peope pretended that they just didn't see?  And how many of those who couldn't see grew up in the deep South, where they were subject to racist propaganda from the day they were born?

And that was not so long ago--it was in our parents' lifetime.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

And that was not so long ago--it was in our parents' lifetime.

And being human nature it is going on NOW. It will continue to go on UNTIL we wise up to ourselves.

IMO we can.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

We are dealing with a population of die-hard believers in a failed system!

Yes and it is literally killing us.

[nia82]

Throwing it in there: also, cognitive dissonance, avoidance of information that contradicts one's beliefs. And with the current witch-hunting of critical doctors, I would assume that actually there are a great deal of peds out there who realize that vaccines are not the holy grail of medicine, but keep their mouths shut out of fear.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by nia82 

I would assume that actually there are a great deal of peds out there who realize that vaccines are not the holy grail of medicine, but keep their mouths shut out of fear.

Much of society actually operates on this principal. Especially in the Industrial Medicine Industry.

Science is thrown away or ignored; those who espouse science are denigrated or worse. Doctor Wakefield has been falsely attacked, had his scientific papers revoked, lost his right to practice medicine in the UK and been driven out of his home. All because he dared to find a KEY piece of the autism puzzle.

[Jessica2011]

I have found nvic.org the most helpful in my battle and choice not to vaccinate. It gives clear information on all the vaccines, their side effects, AND the symptoms and side effects of the illness/disease the vaccine treats. It also has state regulations, personal stories, etc. I poured over all this information and really educated myself. Being "armed" with knowledge is your best weapon of defense when taking your child to the doctor and refusing vaccines. A GOOD doctor will see you as intelligent, informed, and fully capable. You most likely will have to sign something. This just protects your doctor of any "legalities" and he/she may still "suggest" a vaccine here and there. I personally went through 3 pediatricians until I was happy and found a winner :-) hang in there!