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Medical Exemptions threatening Herd Immunity? - Page 2

post #21 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

But I believe that when you make the decision to get that free education, you have to make compromises.

Compromises, yes.  But invasive procedures, particularly when we know that there are risks, are not compromises.  And when the government LIES about those risks, we should be challenging the idea that an invasive procedure is a "compromise."

 

Invasive procedures should not be a prerequisite for ANYTHING guaranteed by the Constitution.

post #22 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

No.

Our children are guaranteed a free education.  There is nothing in the Constitution that takes this right away if we refuse to inject them with potentially harmful chemicals. 

The theory of herd immunity is only proven to be true when natural infection takes place.  But even if herd immunity as the result of vaccination were true, the problem is that there is still a significant subgroup of children who will have reactions both more severe and more frequently than we were led to believe by the manufacturers.

Since there has been absolutely NO effort on the part of either the manufacturers or the doctors to identify this subgroup before vaccination, it is perfectly valid for parents to say, "no, I don't want my child to risk being part of this subgroup until more is known."

And, as has been said (and proven) a gazillion times, the vaccine manufacturers have lied about the safety/efficacy of the vaccines, and the government has lied about both prevalence and risks of the supposedly vaccine-preventable diseases.

Under such circumstances, it is absolutely unethical to suggest that people who don't want to inject their children (with lied-about chemicals in order to supposedly protect them against lied-about diseases) should quit their jobs and stay home and homeschool their children, and it violates the right to a free education.

There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees a free education. It might be state law, but there's nothing in the US constitution.
post #23 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

 If that isn't something you believe, then maybe you should rethink going to public school? 

Why should another family rethink THEIR educational choices due to your beliefs?

post #24 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post
People send their children to school, vaccinate, mostly because they believe that the more children that are vaccinated the less likely the kids are to get VPD's. If that isn't something you believe, then maybe you should rethink going to public school?

 

Why are you singling out public school? 

 

Vaccine laws apply equally to public and private schools. And in some states, home schools as well.

post #25 of 73

Why won't anyone answer my question? shrug.gif

post #26 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees a free education. It might be state law, but there's nothing in the US constitution.

 

Ok how about the fact that it is a basic human right and is recognized as such.

 

Also every state has a provision in its constitution, commonly called the "education article," that guarantees some form of free public education, usually through the twelfth grade. Just talking about different constitutions is all. The bottom line is every child residing in this country no matter what state they live in is entitled to a free education through high school.

 

post #27 of 73

I assumed that education was a Constitutionally guaranteed right in the US.

 

Interestingly, I found this:

 

http://www.hrea.org/index.php?base_id=104&language_id=1&erc_doc_id=445&category_id=24&category_type=3&group=

 

 

 
Universal Declaration of Human Rights  
   
 

General Assembly res. 217A (III), 10 December 1948

 

 

"The General Assembly,

Proclaims this Universal Declaration of Human Rights as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction."

 

 

Article 26

1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

 

 

 

post #28 of 73
I haven't come across this issue personally, yet, but if I had to submit either a medical or philosophical exemption, I would have no qualms with opting for medical even for a healthy child. I don't think it's a lie, either- I have concerns that using prophylactic medication on my child will create medical issues not currently present, and I have valid reasons to be concerned. What's not medical about that?
post #29 of 73

According to  http://www.isbe.state.il.us/bilingual/htmls/imfaqs.html

 

"The laws of Illinois and the United States guarantee all students in Illinois access to a quality education. This requires every district to guarantee all students equal access to the full range of programs and resources."

 

and

 

"Additionally, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that undocumented children have the same right as U.S. citizens and permanent residents to receive a free public education."

 

According to http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1882/Constitutional-Requirements-Governing-American-Education.html, the federal Constitution does not guarantee a free public education.  Every state, though, has a provision in its constitution (the "education article"), that does guarantee free public education.

 

"Nevertheless, once a state decides to provide an education to its children, as every state has, the provision of such education must be consistent with other federally guaranteed constitutional rights, such as the Fourteenth Amendment's right to equal protection under the law and the First Amendment's right to the free exercise of, and the nonestablishment of, religion. Therefore, even though the U.S. Constitution does not, in the first instance, require that an education be provided, it nevertheless has had a significant effect on American education."

 

"Any treatment of education and constitutional rights must begin with the Fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees every citizen equal protection under the law."

 

So if you have equal protection under the law to attend the public school in your area, no matter what your skin color, sexual orientation, or religion, that right extends to whether or not you have been injected with chemicals or not.

 

There is no law saying you can't go to school an hour, a day, or a week after receiving a live-virus vaccine, when you might be contagious.  There is also no law saying that you can't go to school with the sniffles or a tummy ache, even though you might be coming down with an easily-spread virus, EVEN IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED, and you might be at the height of contagion.

 

It would clearly be denying someone "equal protection under the law" to prevent a healthy person from attending school because they have not been injected with a chemical cocktail.



 

post #30 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post

Why should another family rethink THEIR educational choices due to your beliefs?


It's not due to my beliefs, it's due to the regulations and guidelines set by people who run public schools.

post #31 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

It's not due to my beliefs, it's due to the regulations and guidelines set by people who run public schools.

No, it's due to state laws, which I'll say once again, apply equally to both public and private schools, and in some states, home schools.

post #32 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Compromises, yes.  But invasive procedures, particularly when we know that there are risks, are not compromises.  And when the government LIES about those risks, we should be challenging the idea that an invasive procedure is a "compromise."

Invasive procedures should not be a prerequisite for ANYTHING guaranteed by the Constitution.

Isn't it pretty common knowledge here that vaccinations are not in fact mandatory and that an exemption (the type may vary by state) is always an option. Why are you acting as if it's vaccines or no school when I believe I have read in other threads you encouraging moms to obtain an exemption.

Personally, I agree that exemptions should exist in public schools, it's when parents lie on those exemptions that I have a problem.
post #33 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post

Isn't it pretty common knowledge here that vaccinations are not in fact mandatory and that an exemption (the type may vary by state) is always an option. Why are you acting as if it's vaccines or no school when I believe I have read in other threads you encouraging moms to obtain an exemption.
Personally, I agree that exemptions should exist in public schools, it's when parents lie on those exemptions that I have a problem.

So then you dont actually agree that exemptions should exist for anyone who makes the choice not to vaccinate. If people have to lie to get an exemption, it's because they have no other way to get an exemption.
post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post


Isn't it pretty common knowledge here that vaccinations are not in fact mandatory and that an exemption (the type may vary by state) is always an option. Why are you acting as if it's vaccines or no school when I believe I have read in other threads you encouraging moms to obtain an exemption.
Personally, I agree that exemptions should exist in public schools, it's when parents lie on those exemptions that I have a problem.

Increasingly, states are eliminating philosophical and religious exemptions.

 

Paul Offit has made an "educational" video for doctors and parents, stating that he is strongly against such exemptions, and recommends that they be eliminated. He even suggests that immediate allergic reactions to a vaccine would be the only valid reason for a medical exemption.  

 

Since he is on ACIP, the Advisory Council on Immunization Practices, which determines the vaccine schedule, his statement carries an enormous amount of weight with pediatricians across the country.A

 

As stated by other posters, in many cases, a parent MUST lie in order to protect their children from receiving a vaccine that the parent feels would be harmful.

 

School nurses must get parental permission in order to administer Tylenol or Advil to a child with a headache.  Children must even have a note from a parent in order to take a Lactaid pill with their milk--and they are not permitted, in our area, to bring it in their own lunchboxes, but it must be sent to the nurse, and the child must go to the nurse at lunchtime to receive his or her Lactaid pill.

 

A vaccine is far more invasive, and is far more likely to cause some kind of long-term problematic effect, than any of those. Yet, parents are told that their children should be homeschooled if they are not willing to submit to the full vaccination schedule.

 

The issue discussed here is not whether unvaccinated children are currently allowed to attend school, but that people are suggesting that they SHOULDN'T be allowed to attend school.

post #35 of 73
Thread Starter 

And let's not forget the point of the article which is stating that DOCTORS are lying on the exemption forms too...why would this be?  Why all of a sudden, are drs who write medical exemptions under the spotlight?   Who is afraid they are telling the truth when it comes to vaccine damage?  Are there so many drs across the USA writing medical exemptions due to all the children reacting adversly to these vaccines?  Is someone trying to silence these drs by shaming them on their medical exemptions for kids?  

post #36 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

How can parents make "honest" vaccine decisions when they are lied to by governments, pharmaceutical companies and the medical profession? We are given fake science and sold snake oil. Why should we believe that modern-day quacks have the truth? Why should the government, pharmaceutical companies and doctors determine what is best for us and our children? Why are we required to buy what they are selling if we don't want it?

The law is the law.

 

If you think it's an unjust law then try to change it or find an honest way to work around it. Lying and saying your child has a medical condition that he/she does not have is, in my opinion, a terrible way to protest something you think is an injustice.

 

Twenty states allow philosophical exemptions for those who object to immunizations because of a personal, moral or other beliefs. Why not use that exemption or move to a state that allows one? Or work to get your state to allow a philosophical exemption?

post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsupial-mom View Post

The law is the law.

 

If you think it's an unjust law then try to change it or find an honest way to work around it. Lying and saying your child has a medical condition that he/she does not have is, in my opinion, a terrible way to protest something you think is an injustice.

 

Twenty states allow philosophical exemptions for those who object to immunizations because of a personal, moral or other beliefs. Why not use that exemption or move to a state that allows one? Or work to get your state to allow a philosophical exemption?

 

 

Why are you accusing me of lying? FYI, my unvaccinated children have perfectly legal exemptions - no need to lie. I live in a state that still offers all three exemptions and they are very easy to obtain. Unfortunately, those parents in WV and MS aren't so lucky. I can assure you I would never live in either of those states.

post #38 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsupial-mom View Post

The law is the law.

If you think it's an unjust law then try to change it or find an honest way to work around it. Lying and saying your child has a medical condition that he/she does not have is, in my opinion, a terrible way to protest something you think is an injustice.

Twenty states allow philosophical exemptions for those who object to immunizations because of a personal, moral or other beliefs. Why not use that exemption or move to a state that allows one? Or work to get your state to allow a philosophical exemption?

What?!?!? People should either uproot their entire family and move to another state or spend all their time and money trying to change state laws all in the name of honesty?

If I were in that boat, which I am not, I'd deal with being called a "liar" in order to do what I think is best for my children.
post #39 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


What?!?!? People should either uproot their entire family and move to another state or spend all their time and money trying to change state laws all in the name of honesty?
If I were in that boat, which I am not, I'd deal with being called a "liar" in order to do what I think is best for my children.

 

Amen.

 

There could be tens of thousands of people trying to change the law and it still comes down to who pays the most - ie. Big Pharma.

 

Besides, I would imagine that there are very, very few doctors willing to falsify a shot record.  "Lying" about a medical exemption wouldn't be as easy as it sounds, and I think there would be such a miniscule number of parents doing so that it would have little bearing on "herd immunity".

post #40 of 73
Medical exemptions are not hurting herd immunity. There are other exemptions, and people choosing those exemptions. Lying, and claiming a medical exemption when there is none is dangerous, because the parent might be asked for proof. However, if that was my only option (besides moving) I might take the risk.

I'm curious why only medical exemptions are being targeted, and where the idea that private school attendees and homeschoolers are automatically exempt came from.
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