Medical Exemptions threatening Herd Immunity? - Page 4

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin 

deleted ...

never mind ... it's heated enough a discussion ...

tease!  

[kathymuggle]

double post

[MamaMunchkin]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

tease!  

[marsupial-mom]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

I would really love to know if you had a vaccine injured child (that was denied by the medical community) and you were faced with injuring them further or lying what you would do.

Um, it would not be lying if your child had a vaccine reaction. In that case, a medical exemption would make perfect sense.

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Exemptions of all forms are not going to threaten herd immunity nearly as much as parents who just don't vaccinate due to access, time constraints, lack of education, etc.

I agree with that.

However, that doesn't make it OK for anti-vaxxers to break the law or lie.

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Does anybody else see a totalitarianism agenda here?

No, I don't see a "totalitarianism agenda" here. I see public policy that tries to protect the health of all children.

I think seeing the vaccine issue as the first step in a "totalitarianism agenda" fits with the kind of thinking that believes in chemtrails.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

Um, it would not be lying if your child had a vaccine reaction. In that case, a medical exemption would make perfect sense.

It's not that easy.

My son had a reaction to DTaP.  He could get a medical exemption for that vaccine only.  I am not willing to risk his health further and have him get other vaccines, but he can't get a medical exemption for ones he hasn't had reactions to, so I opted for a philosophical exemption.  Things would be much trickier if that wasn't an option for us.

Additionally, I am not willing to get my daughter further vaccines in part because of my son's reaction, but she is not eligible for a medical exemption because she hasn't had a reaction.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

Um, it would not be lying if your child had a vaccine reaction. In that case, a medical exemption would make perfect sense.

Except medical exemptions are only given AFTER a serious reaction has been recognized as such.  Family history of serious reaction, and serious reactions to other vaccines are ignored.  In fact, as has been stated here, over and over again, serious reactions are usually misdiagnosed the first time around.

I agree with that.

However, that doesn't make it OK for anti-vaxxers to break the law or lie.

If breaking the law or lying is the only way to protect your child from receiving a medical treatment that might harm them, than that is actually the best course of action.  Do you think it would have been wrong for a pregnant mum to lie and say she was allergic to thalidomide, if it had been required in order to "protect the health of her child?"

No, I don't see a "totalitarianism agenda" here. I see public policy that tries to protect the health of all children.

But public policy is completely failing, by making it mandatory to subject all infants and children to invasive medical procedures whose only safety/efficacy tests were done by the industry that profits from them.  That's called "tobacco science," in case you've not heard that term before.  We saw it with the tobacco industry.  The only difference between the tobacco industry and the vaccine industry is that the vaccine industry has learned from the tobacco industry's mistakes, and has carefully avoided making them.

I think seeing the vaccine issue as the first step in a "totalitarianism agenda" fits with the kind of thinking that believes in chemtrails.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/totalitarianism

"Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)   http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_examples_of_totalitarian_countries It generally means that the population is excluded from the political process, and any form of dissent is met with force.     Examples often cited include: Italy (1922-43/45) Soviet Union Nazi Germany One of the most important features of a totalitarianism is the overt politicization of a wide range of activities generally considered non-political, such as leisure. Another is intolerance and repression."     Well, let's see.  The way health care is handled has certainly been overtly politicized, including the vaccine issue. Parents and medical personnel alike are met with intolerance and repression if they dare to even question the safety/efficacy of vaccines, let alone criticize it. This doesn't sound like chemtrails to me.  Implying that anyone who sees a comparison with totaliatarianism is paranoid, crazy, and alarmist is simply insulting. It does nothing for the discussion at hand except add insult.  Have you noticed--the pharmaceutical industry is already in quite a bit of control? The average senior citizen take an average of EIGHTEEN prescription medications per year.  25% of all CHILDREN are on maintenance medications.  The average grocery store has 7 shelves of OTC pain medications,  4 shelves of cold medications (none of which cure the cold), and 3 shelves of antacids. Most magazines and TV shows are sponsored/supported by pharmaceutical ads. The head of Reuters, Thomas Glocer, is also on the board of Merck. The Murdochs own and operate their own vaccine testing facility.  Is it any wonder that the news media ALWAYS prints things like "Vaccine/autism link disproven!" (which is not true) and NEVER prints any of the studies showing a link, never prints any criticisms of vaccines at all, and has yet to print that Merck is being sued by its own virologists for lying and cover-up efficacy data regarding a vaccine?

[kathymuggle]

Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it.  ~Albert Einstein

If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.  ~Louis D. Brandeis

I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward.  It is not so desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.  ~Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience, 1849

It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.  ~Voltaire

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

I think seeing the vaccine issue as the first step in a "totalitarianism agenda" fits with the kind of thinking that believes in chemtrails.

True, and you know why? Because Chemtrails, aka. Geoengineering, is real. Thanks for bringing that up. Whatever you're insinuating, why not watch this and then decide if you would still like to criticize:

"Why In The  World Are They Spraying?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis

   In case you didn't know this, and most people don't, weather manipulation is a common practice in some countries. http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2012/05/26/china-to-increase-weather-manipulation-program/    It's in our own government documents as well, as you will clearly see if you watch the documentary. Yet, the mere thought that the great USA isn't covertly participating in similar programs is, well, wishful (naive) thinking. Those aren't ordinary contrails hanging in the sky for hours, and until you research the facts, you shouldn't assume they are.  You should not assume anything until you research the issue from more than one side. Just because some people call this a "conspiracy theory" is not a good enough reason to dismiss the issue.

   SOOOO, if you have reviewed the facts, watched the documentary, and come to the conclusion that "chemtrails" are real, don't worry, you are not an official conspiracy theorist yet!!! There is still the decision to make--whether the program is for the benefit or harm of humanity. You can think, "Oh, the government is spraying because they want to help us somehow, with global warming or whatever, but they can't tell the public because of X reason."  So there, you can believe in chemtrails/geoengineering and still believe in the integrity of the government. Believing in chemtrails/geoengineering does not automatically make you a conspiracy theorist.

P.S. Remember, if you bring up tangents, I tend to go off on them!

[Mosaic]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

P.S. Remember, if you bring up tangents, I tend to go off on them!

I know, they're so tempting, but we must resist! This is the vax forum, not the chemtrails/totalitarianism board!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by marsupial-mom 

Um, it would not be lying if your child had a vaccine reaction. In that case, a medical exemption would make perfect sense.

I agree with that.

However, that doesn't make it OK for anti-vaxxers to break the law or lie.

No, I don't see a "totalitarianism agenda" here. I see public policy that tries to protect the health of all children.

I think seeing the vaccine issue as the first step in a "totalitarianism agenda" fits with the kind of thinking that believes in chemtrails.

 I guess you missed the part where I said the reaction was NOT RECOGNIZED as such by your doctor. There are lots of times medical exemptions make perefct sense. Doesn't mean that they are easy to get - even when they make sense. If your doctor refuses to recognize the reaction as a reaction that would be contraindicated to any further vaccines from that particular series, then you don't have many options.

[kathymuggle]

I don't think exemptions should exist at all (yeah, I know I said that).

This whole medical/religious/philosophical things put people into categories, and causes some judgement on whether their "exemption" is legit.

You know what?  My children are not vaccinated, because, I, their mother, say so.  My children will go to school if I see fit, as they are citizens of this country, and public education is a right for all children.    

Public education is a right for all children, and if that is not acceptable to you, then maybe your child is the one who needs to be homeschooled or in private school.  

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I don't think exemptions should exist at all (yeah, I know I said that).

This whole medical/religious/philosophical things put people into categories, and causes some judgement on whether their "exemption" is legit.

You know what?  My children are not vaccinated, because, I, their mother, say so.  My children will go to school if I see fit, as they are citizens of this country, and public education is a right for all children.    

Public education is a right for all children, and if that is not acceptable to you, then maybe your child is the one who needs to be homeschooled or in private school.  

 

[alegna]

never mind

Edited by alegna - 9/4/12 at 9:46pm