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What is ADHD - Page 3

post #41 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

 

Yes I think this is certainly true.

 

Since ADHD is a syndrome and not a medically diagnosable condition we have absolutely no way to know what organic cause if any is present when someone is LABELED ADHD.

 

It IS a medically dx condition.  It is not a disease, but a condition that is medical just like depression, epilepsy and even dyslexia which falls in the category of disorders.  You go to a dr. that specializes in brains (neurologist, psychologist or psychiatrist) to get a dx and treatment.  By the way, not all treatment is medication.  I find most of your (Louisw's) posts searching to disprove ADHD or confuse it with Autism, and that will not help you understand what it is.   In the end, does it matter if genetics, biology, or vaccines cause it?  It does not change the condition and treatment.  

 

edited to remove comment about something addressed by moderator.

post #42 of 126

Thanks for editing melissa!  I was just coming to ask you to.  lol.gif

post #43 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa17s View Post

It IS a medically dx condition.  It is not a disease, but a condition that is medical just like depression, epilepsy and even dyslexia which falls in the category of disorders.  You go to a dr. that specializes in brains (neurologist, psychologist or psychiatrist) to get a dx and treatment.  By the way, not all treatment is medication.  I find most of your (Louisw's) posts searching to disprove ADHD or confuse it with Autism, and that will not help you understand what it is.   In the end, does it matter if genetics, biology, or vaccines cause it?  It does not change the condition and treatment.  

edited to remove comment about something addressed by moderator.

The cause matters to future generations because if it is preventable (caused by vaccines, for example) then changes can be made and fewer or no people will have that struggle in the future! Unfortunately, identifying the cause does not change the situation for those who are already dealing with it.
post #44 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa17s View Post

It IS a medically dx condition.  It is not a disease, but a condition that is medical just like depression, epilepsy and even dyslexia which falls in the category of disorders.  You go to a dr. that specializes in brains (neurologist, psychologist or psychiatrist) to get a dx and treatment.  By the way, not all treatment is medication.  I find most of your (Louisw's) posts searching to disprove ADHD or confuse it with Autism, and that will not help you understand what it is.   In the end, does it matter if genetics, biology, or vaccines cause it?  It does not change the condition and treatment.  

 

 

 

Sorry, ADHD as defined by the DSM is not a medical condition. It has no biological test to diagnose it. Neither is depression or dyslexia. They are not like epilepsy, diabetes, cancer etc. You go to a doctor like a neurologist, psychologist or a psychiatrist, not for a blood test or some other biological test, but a diagnosis from a menu of human behaviors decided by a group of psychiatrists and published in a book. This has been admitted by the the doctor that headed up the project to write the DSM - IV, Dr Allen Frances. Here is what he told journalist Gary Greenberg, in the Wired article Inside the Battle to Define Mental Illness“There is no definition of a mental disorder.  It’s bullshit.*  I mean, you just can’t define it.”

 

The DSM is a pharma tool devised by pharma shills to sell a whole boat load of toxic drugs. It starts an ADHD diagnosis and a prescription for stimulant medication, such as Ritalin an amphetamine-like drug which causes crashes which is then labeled clinical depression, so Prozac, Paxil or Zoloft is prescribed which causes highs followed by crashes, so the psychiatrist then diagnoses bipolar and prescribes Risperdal, Valproate or Lithium. These are all hardcore drugs which have side effects, that cause permanent brain changes, numerous health problems and even death. 

 

Do we really want this for our children? 

 

 

 

* Mods am I allowed to use that word?

post #45 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


The cause matters to future generations because if it is preventable (caused by vaccines, for example) then changes can be made and fewer or no people will have that struggle in the future! Unfortunately, identifying the cause does not change the situation for those who are already dealing with it.

 

I guess the part I take issue with is the "preventable" part.  I don't need to be cured.  There is nothing wrong with me.  I'm different.  If my kid has ADHD (and she has some possible signs of it) I'm so happy that I've been on this journey to find out about my brain because I will be able to provide her with acceptance of who she is... because I accept who I am.  I didn't get to grow up with that.  I will get to provide her with resources that will help her live in her skin as who she is.  She has some issues with impulse control (very occasionally she will get "stuck" in a behavior and can't seem to stop herself without some fairly extreme sensory stimulus) right now that might be developmentally normal, or they might be something she inherited from me.  For me, what I will do is the same: play "stop go" and "instruction" games with her so she can develop that part of her brain.  (She loves games where I just tell her, "Run to that post and hop three times, then come back!"  And they are great for her.)  Get her outside as much as I can for large motor activites.  Engage her in fine motor activities (which she loves).  And so forth.  It doesn't matter to me if she is neurotypical or ADHD or what ever.  I just want to pay attention to who she is and offer her resources so she can live at peace with herself.

 

The PP who mentioned that her son's brain is amazing - that's how I feel about my brain.  My brain is amazing.  Is it totally adapted to living in the society I live in?  No, not exactly.  I've been able to learn lots of wonderful skills that help me do things that I want to do in the society that I do live in, and I've learn to let go of things that I don't feel whole and happy adapting to.

 

I'm coming from a really particular perspective but I tend to view the ADHD diagnosis as a culturally contingent description of one segment of a spectrum of difference that exists in the human population.  I believe this view is called "neurodiversity" and I like it a whole lot better than a pathologizing view of difference.  The "vaccines cause ADHD" argument to me is a red herring.  That's another pathologizing view of a normal range of human difference and I think that the pathologizing will always cause more harm than good.  Instead of focusing on curing or fundamentally changing people who have ADHD, how about changing how we view the value of people and what is normal?  How about accepting that we don't have to all start from the same place or end up in the same place to have a place in our society?

 

I think the DSM is flawed because it can be used to pathologize (the thing is called a disorder, for crying out loud), BUT in our culture, right now, that "label" is the best tool we have to access information about this difference and what we can do to make our lives easier.  And for some people, that does include medication.  I have a number of friends who choose to be medicated so they can work in fields they love (social work and teaching).  They are happier this way.  My one friend in social work bartends on the side and she is great at it but she hates it and can't wait until she makes enough money to quit.  I choose to remain unmedicated and work in service and labor because I am happier that way.  I am an amazing waitress and I'm a good farmer when I'm being told what to do.   I know a lot of incredible people working in food service and farming who all have ADHD and who are all unmedicated and amazing at their jobs - a lot of times because of those differences. On the farm I work at, my boss has the most intense ADHD I've ever seen.  He never stops moving and he's always shooting off in every direction, and he knows he needs to be "managed" so he hired a farm manager to handle those executive function decisions, while he invents crazy farm equipment and runs around feeding the cattle and digging trenches.   It's great!  We are all different and have different ways of dealing with it.

 

If there is a problem with any of this, it's that our society doesn't esteem all types of work equally, or all types of people.  But we know this already, right?  :)

post #46 of 126
I agree that all people deserve and need to be valued.
post #47 of 126

cyclamen - I sort of agree with you, but I do not agree with the neurodiversity crowd that believe autism is the next step in human evolution. Neurodiversity blogs also appear to be fronts for the pharma industry in their defense of vaccines and the belief it is entirely a genetic condition. Autism can be a devastating condition with many co-morbid health issues that no one would wish on anyone. 

 

My DD's ADHD, really ADD, is who she is. She has accepted this and works around it. She decided not to go to college, and like you has chosen a career in service and labor; she owns her own housekeeping business. I do believe she suffered post vaccinial encephalitis, but I also believe she was lucky that the neurological damage has been mild in her case.

post #48 of 126

Mirzam, I don't buy the "next step in human evolution" crowd either.  I also agree that it minimizes many of the real challenges there are in dealing with autism, ADHD or other neurological differences.  I am also not entirely convinced that trauma doesn't have a role in things like ADHD.  I mentioned in my first post in this thread that my brother and I, who both have diagnosed but unmedicated ADHD (and mine is fairly severe and I've had to do a lot of therapy to get to the point where I was a) employable and b) stopped feeling suicidal because of it; while he has parlayed his differences into a pretty high paying job in game programming) had a traumatic upbringing, and that both my parents also had traumatic upbringings.  My mom, who is undiagnosed but who definitely has ADHD, was actually beaten so badly as a child that she suffered seizures for years.  I actually don't know much about my dad's upbringing because he won't talk about it, but he is a very traumatized person (who also has obvious but undiagnosed ADHD, but who also was able to make it work for him - he was employed as a scientist for many years, with no college degree), and the little bit I know of his mother suggests that she probably abused him pretty severely.  So I don't rule out the trauma theory, be it biological or environmental.  (And I do think that type of abuse exacerbates the symptoms of ADHD because it doesn't support the development of executive function skills at all.  That was my experience at least.)  But.  Like I said, I've found much more utility in acceptance than in pathology.

 

edited for qualifiers

 

and edited again:

 

And, I'm just a stranger on the internet, but kudos to you too, Mirzam, for supporting your daughter as she is.  I'm sure you already know how valuable that must have been for her, and I can only imagine how difficult it was for you both.  I would have loved to have had that kind of support growing up, and I am so grateful that I will be able to be that for my daughter, whatever kind of person she turns out to be.


Edited by cyclamen - 9/10/12 at 9:45am
post #49 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclamen View Post

Mirzam, I don't buy the "next step in human evolution" crowd either.  I also agree that it minimizes many of the real challenges there are in dealing with autism, ADHD or other neurological differences.  I am also not entirely convinced that trauma doesn't have a role in things like ADHD.  I mentioned in my first post in this thread that my brother and I, who both have diagnosed but unmedicated ADHD (and mine is fairly severe and I've had to do a lot of therapy to get to the point where I was a) employable and b) stopped feeling suicidal because of it; while he has parlayed his differences into a pretty high paying job in game programming) had a traumatic upbringing, and that both my parents also had traumatic upbringings.  My mom, who is undiagnosed but who definitely has ADHD, was actually beaten so badly as a child that she suffered seizures for years.  I actually don't know much about my dad's upbringing because he won't talk about it, but he is a very traumatized person (who also has obvious but undiagnosed ADHD, but who also was able to make it work for him - he was employed as a scientist for many years, with no college degree), and the little bit I know of his mother suggests that she probably abused him pretty severely.  So I don't rule out the trauma theory, be it biological or environmental.  (And I do think that type of abuse exacerbates the symptoms of ADHD because it doesn't support the development of executive function skills at all.  That was my experience at least.)  But.  Like I said, I've found much more utility in acceptance than in pathology.

 

edited for qualifiers

 

and edited again:

 

And, I'm just a stranger on the internet, but kudos to you too, Mirzam, for supporting your daughter as she is.  I'm sure you already know how valuable that must have been for her, and I can only imagine how difficult it was for you both.  I would have loved to have had that kind of support growing up, and I am so grateful that I will be able to be that for my daughter, whatever kind of person she turns out to be.

 

Thank you for those kind words. It hasn't been an easy road for either of us. But without doubt we have both grown through the experience. School was always a struggle, but picking the right school environment that supported her and allowed her to go at her own pace was invaluable. She finally graduated HS at 20 years old. I was so proud of her that she stuck with it! Her graduation was a typical ADD moment, she told her father and I the wrong time, so we missed her going on stage to receive her diploma!

 

Good luck to your daughter, she will be just fine!

post #50 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa17s View Post

 

I find most of your (Louisw's) posts searching to disprove ADHD or confuse it with Autism, and that will not help you understand what it is. 

 

It is my opinion that much of ADHD is an Autism  Spectrum Disease.

 

The ADHD that is an ASD differs from autism by being closer to the milder side of the spectrum. Somewhere along the spectrum severe ADHD blends into mild autism.

 

Of course we must keep in mind there are MANY different things LABELED ADHD.

post #51 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa17s View Post

It [ADHD] IS a medically dx condition. 

 

No ADHD is classed (incorrectly IMO) as a MENTAL Disorder.

 

http://wwwapps.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america.shtml

 

"Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.1"

 

Mental Disorders have multiplied like rabbits in the last few decades. One more generation and MOST of us will be classified with a mental disorder; especially if you disagree with the state.

post #52 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

 

One more generation and MOST of us will be classified with a mental disorder; especially if you disagree with the state.

 

My mental disorder is obviously Oppositional Defiant Disorder Can you imagine a sane person who does not believe that "government" has his best interests in mind?

post #53 of 126

We delayed my daughters vaccines.  Her pediatrician (even before thimerosol was banned from vaccines) sought out vaccinations that did not use mercury.  She never had an adverse reaction to any of her vaccines (nothing, not even a welt from the injection).  I believe she was always like this.  This is the way she is.  I never said her brain was RE-wired differently.  Just WIRED differently.  From birth.  I did not say she was brain damaged.  But, the "normal" for her makes functioning in the real world not possible. 

 

I know you want to have something to blame this on, but this is just how she is.  It isn't the vaccines, it isn't lazy parenting or schooling, it isn't because she is stupid or unruly.  And pointing a finger at this point serves no purpose.  I'm not interested in playing the mommy wars, or defending my family on the internet.  So, this will be the last time I post in this thread.  We are a family that is trying to find ways for everyone to be successful in it.  To be happy, fulfilled and moving positively through life.  Understanding how my child's brain works is one aspect of that.  Creating an environment where she can succeed is my focus.

post #54 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bec View Post
Creating an environment where she can succeed is my focus.

 

Mine also.

post #55 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bec View Post
I know you want to have something to blame this on,

 

I seek CAUSES. I have found once you have discovered a CAUSE for a problem the solution OFTEN becomes almost trivial.

 

If I could cease autism with a wave of my magic wand by FORGIVING all of the Medical Industry, Vaccine Industry and HHS who has created autism I would do it in a second.

 

Not in ANY way do I blame the poor parents and their children for any of this ASD nightmare we are living in.

post #56 of 126

My daughter does not have ASD.  She has an attention disorder.  Not on the spectrum, not the same thing.  Not even close.

post #57 of 126

I tend to disagree with the perception that diagnosis = medication. I do not medicate my daughter, she doesn't need medication right now. If we all decide that her needs are best served by school at some point, we may decide the situation calls for it, though the problems I had with Ritalin make me very cautious about the stimulant class meds (severe appetite loss, which caused me to have extremely disordered eating, anxiety, insomnia, explosion of mild, subclinical OCD tendencies into fullblown OCD). For her, there is no quality of life issue that leads me to think they are indicated. Her best friends happen to be another two girls with ADHD and a boy with Asperger's, so there's a whole lot of understanding in her circles. Right now, we unschool. I hope that when she's old enough, she will enroll in a particular charter high school in our area that offers independent study combined with vocational apprenticeships, because I think that that path will serve her better than traditional schooling. 

 

I certainly wouldn't judge someone who makes another choice, I don't think anyone who would frequent this forum would make the decision to medicate lightly, or without carefully weighing the risks.

 

For me, a "label" of ADHD is preferable to the labels that I might have worn 50 years ago: lazy, airheaded, flighty, disobedient, willful, stupid, unmotivated, absentminded, and weak-willed. I love having access to the experiences of people who face the same challenges I do. 

 

Cyclamen, I find what you are saying about service/labor jobs really interesting, because it is very similar to my experience. Jobs I've had in the restaurant and customer service industries were much easier and more satisfying to me than the last outside-the-home job I had, which managing an office that scheduled life insurance physicals. I do SO much better at things that have a solid, achievable goal. 

post #58 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

My mental disorder is obviously Oppositional Defiant Disorder Can you imagine a sane person who does not believe that "government" has his best interests in mind?

I LOVE it! Those who question the status quo finally have a disorder of their own! Oppositional Defiant Disorder! I think I'll put it on T-shirts, if you agree to let me. I've been trying to make some headway on another forum to get folks to step out of the box on an issue there, and consider new possibilities. I've gotten quite a bit of resistance. You made my day better.
post #59 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


I LOVE it! Those who question the status quo finally have a disorder of their own! Oppositional Defiant Disorder! I think I'll put it on T-shirts, if you agree to let me. I've been trying to make some headway on another forum to get folks to step out of the box on an issue there, and consider new possibilities. I've gotten quite a bit of resistance. You made my day better.

He didn't make that up. Google it

post #60 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

He didn't make that up. Google it

Sorry if I accidentally offended anyone.

It reminds me of Shift Work Disorder, or something like that, that I heard on the radio.
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