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post #81 of 126

I would basically agree with your list.

 

I question number 2, somewhat.  I am not sure we have evidence that a trauma induces ADHD.  We do not have a large body of parents saying "my child was fine and then xyz happened and now they are not" like we do with autism.  It is tricky - ADHD seems present from birth, yet is not often diagnosed to school age (when their inability to comply butts into classroom management and style of learning).  However, we know such things as difficult birth and prematurity are linked to higher rates of ADHD, which are traumas- so who knows?

 

Perhaps like many disorders there is a genetic tendencies, but triggers flip the switch.

 

I might add "misdiagnosis" to you list (although perhaps that falls under #3?).  Gifted children are often misdiagnosed as ADHD; it would not surprise me if sensory processing disorder was also misdiagnosed as ADHD.

post #82 of 126
SPD seems to often appear in concert with ADHD. Most of the people I know with ADHD have some sort of sensory issue.
post #83 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

What is ADHD?

 

My intent in starting this thread was to list all the members of the ADHD Phenomena Set because ADHD is a LABEL for a SET which clearly consists of MANY members

 

I will list my members below with a brief description. If you disagree in any way or wish to add members please do so.

 

Members of the ADHD Phenomena Set

 

1 A brain "rewired" from conception. There is no damage to the brain. These children often have some problems in the classroom because they process information differently. Probably because they process information differently they often have great insights and can be high IQ.

 

2 A brain "rewired" from injury. There is damage to the brain, often from "vaccination" or trauma; stroke is an example of this type of injury. In children some problems in the classroom are often exhibited because they process information differently because they are FORCED to.

 

3 A high spirited or "disruptive" child. There is no damage to the brain. These children often have problems in the classroom basically because they require more attention than the average child gets in a classroom..

I think that 2 and 3 are maybe half there, but not there yet.  For instance, I have not seen vaccination or stroke strongly linked to ADHD in the literature that I have looked at.  Instead, though, I have seen links to pcbs, food additives, lead exposure, acohol/smoking in utero, and pesticides. Think between 1 and 2, it is the difference between genetics and environmental factors causing adhd.  

 

In terms of 3, being hyperactive is very different than the highly spirited child.  Not all adhd kids are hyper either; there are 3 subsets- inattentive, hyper active, and combination.  Not all of these kids demand more attention either.  Sometimes, they are the "daydreamers" that go unnoticed. Even hyper ones are not always seen as disruptive.  They can be the kid that knows the answer first or impulsively tries things without fear. 

post #84 of 126
Thread Starter 

Kids Exposed to Mercury, Lead at Risk for ADHD

"Inuit children in northern Quebec, Canada, eat a diet rich in beluga whale meat, which is typically contaminated with high levels of mercury. After analyzing umbilical cord blood from nearly 300 children, and years later getting detailed information about their behavior, researchers found those with the highest concentrations of mercury had more trouble paying attention – and were three times as likely to display symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) – than those with lower levels."

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/09/mercury-in-seafood.aspx?e_cid=20121009_DNL_art_2

 

Clearly this is a form of ADHD with environmental causal factors.

post #85 of 126
post #86 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

I don't think anyone here is saying that medication is necessary or appropriate for every child or adult with ADHD.
I, however, am objecting to people, especially those with no personal experience with ADHD, saying that it is never appropriate, especially when it is delivered with an attitude of condescension and judgement, and without any interest in a dialogue.
For me, medication caused as many problems as it solved. I've known people whose life may have been saved by meds.
I don't know anyone, anywhere that would seriously consider medicating a kid for normal childish behavior, but, as the article that Melissa linked says, people often have that perception. It's not unusual to think "hey, I lose my keys sometimes, I get distracted, but I function just fine without drugs!" That's because many ADHD behaviors are normal ones, only magnified to the point o being debilitating.
The only times that I was 'zombie' like on medication were those days that I accidentally got a double dose of my meds. A child who is on a well-managed regimen of treatment should seem normal, not like a zombie!

I would like to say that I am not judging or saying that ADHD doesn't exist. I *am* concerned that it is ...
1. Being over used, and *sometimes* used by those who do not want the challenge of dealing with a gifted or high needs child.
2. Being diagnosed younger and younger, to a point where accurate diagnosis is unlikely. Currently 6, 5, 4, and now 3 year olds are being evaluated for ADHD. I think that's wrong. How can a prediction be made at such a young age concerning whether or not the symptoms are debilitating? I am concerned. We do noy know the long term impacts of those medications on the developing brain. Even if they end up needing the meds as adults, there is no way to be sure if the meds are needed because of the exposure during development. No way to know if that's *not* the reason, either. I just feel that we should be proceeding with caution, and I am alarmed by how frequently parents and teachers want to 'jump on the problem' instead of allowing a little time to see if maturity is what's really needed.
post #87 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


We do not know the long term impacts of those medications on the developing brain.

 

Well we DID know 50 years ago. Kids were almost NEVER given toxic drugs on a chronic basis. Pregnant women were almost NEVER "vaccinated".

 

IMO too many people have gone through government schools.

post #88 of 126
Thread Starter 

IMO before deciding how to treat "ADHD" we must first decide which type of "ADHD we are dealing with.

 

Members of the ADHD Phenomena Set

 

1 A brain "rewired" from conception. There is no damage to the brain. The brain has chosen to rewire itself for reasons unknown if you will. These children often have some problems in the classroom because they process information differently. Probably because they process information differently they often have great insights and can be high IQ.

 

2 A brain "rewired" from injury. There is damage to the brain, often from environmental factors such as "vaccination", mercury or trauma; stroke is an example of this type of injury. The brain has rewired itself because it was FORCED to in order to process information is some manner. In these children some problems in the classroom are often exhibited because they process information differently because they are FORCED to.

 

3 A high spirited or "disruptive" child. There is no damage to the brain. These children often have problems in the classroom basically because they require more individual attention than the average child gets in a classroom.

post #89 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa17s View Post

I think that 2 and 3 are maybe half there, but not there yet. 

 

So please Melissa propose a rewriting of 2 and 3

post #90 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I would basically agree with your list.

 

I question number 2, somewhat. 

 

I might add "misdiagnosis" to you list (although perhaps that falls under #3?).  Gifted children are often misdiagnosed as ADHD; it would not surprise me if sensory processing disorder was also misdiagnosed as ADHD.

 

Please propose new members and/or rewording of existing members.

post #91 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

 

Well we DID know 50 years ago. Kids were almost NEVER given toxic drugs on a chronic basis.

 

 

Oh really?

 

http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/dissertations/AAI8604927/

post #92 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


I would like to say that I am not judging or saying that ADHD doesn't exist. I *am* concerned that it is ...
1. Being over used, and *sometimes* used by those who do not want the challenge of dealing with a gifted or high needs child.
2. Being diagnosed younger and younger, to a point where accurate diagnosis is unlikely. Currently 6, 5, 4, and now 3 year olds are being evaluated for ADHD. I think that's wrong. How can a prediction be made at such a young age concerning whether or not the symptoms are debilitating? I am concerned. We do noy know the long term impacts of those medications on the developing brain. Even if they end up needing the meds as adults, there is no way to be sure if the meds are needed because of the exposure during development. No way to know if that's *not* the reason, either. I just feel that we should be proceeding with caution, and I am alarmed by how frequently parents and teachers want to 'jump on the problem' instead of allowing a little time to see if maturity is what's really needed.

 

I think medication is overused, and I think the very real dangers of ADHD drugs are often glossed over. But that still does not mean that it is NEVER an appropriate treatment choice.

post #93 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

I think medication is overused, and I think the very real dangers of ADHD drugs are often glossed over. But that still does not mean that it is NEVER an appropriate treatment choice.

How do you feel about diagnosing young children? What age do you feel is too young?
post #94 of 126

My daughter started showing signs of differing attention ability when she took her first dance class, a preschool class for kids 2-4, at age 3 1/2. She was definitely not the youngest in the class, but the only kid that had a harder time with paying attention in that class was a 2 year-old still in diapers. She still had a blast, and the teacher totally adjusted for her, so it wasn't a really a -problem-, just a difference.

 

I did not pursue a diagnosis at that time. I waited until this year, because this is the first year that I am going to need to advocate for a disability accommodation for her. She just hit second grade, so even though she is enrolled in an unschooling-friendly homeschool charter, this year she is expected to participate in standardized testing, and I need to arrange for extra time and a private setting for that. 

 

The thing is, when a child is evaluated for ADHD, the child is not being compared to an adult or an older child, they are being compared to what is developmentally normal for that child's age. I think you can spot these differences early, but I question why someone would be involving their kids in something that would require medication to succeed at  when the kid is only 3 years old.

 

When I was a kid, I was told that I 'needed to be on medication for a while' and that 'one day I would wake up and not have ADHD anymore.'  I'm almost 39, and I'm still waiting to 'outgrow' it. I wonder, pek64, what is your stake in this? Do you have, care for, or know a child or adult with ADHD?
 

post #95 of 126
We homeschool, partly so I could avoid my son being diagnosed with ADHD
I never had him evaluated for it, buy was told by a couple of teachers and a parent, whose son was diagnosed, we knew that he would definately have gotten thr diagnosis. He's now 16, and has developed his own coping techniques. He also shows signs of being able to handle a college classroom, if that's what he wants to do. I just wonder how many kids can do the same, if they are not forced to sit still in grade school.
post #96 of 126

See, I don't understand why avoiding a diagnosis is desirable. Without a documented diagnosis, I would have been unable to get a dispensation from disabled student services in college, to allow me to work on an embroidery project in a lecture class, even though the professor objected (embroidery and crocheting are two of the tricks I use to keep my mind from wandering when I need to focus on auditory input. I got that idea from a fantasy novel I read when I was a teenager, and it works VERY well). I also would not have had the option to take exams in the testing center, and clock out for a break mid-exam. Without a diagnosis, I would not have had access to the 8 years of speech therapy that allow me to follow a conversation, and communicate clearly when I speak (Before speech therapy, I had a tendency to lose track of my subject mid-sentence and wander off onto unrelated tangents, sort of like someone who is exhausted, or really drunk. They were really INTERESTING tangents, but not conducive to getting my point across. Now I only do this when I am very tired or emotional).

 

Knowing I have ADHD gives me access to information about things that might be challenges for me, things that I haven't encountered before, that I might not realize are affected by impulse control and concentration. It gives me time to figure out that something is going to cause a problem and how I am going to work around it.

 

If you declined to have your son evaluated for ADHD, how do you KNOW that he would have been diagnosed? A recommendation for evaluation does not equal a diagnosis, nor does diagnosis equal drugs.

post #97 of 126
If a need arises, a diagnosis can still be obtained. It's not like after a certain age one can't go to doctors anymore. So far, there has been no need.
post #98 of 126

Another article on the link between mercury and ADHD:

http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1377487

 

Fwiw, mercury is found in some flu shots used on adult pregnant women.  In my opinion, it is more prudent to ask for a shot that does not contain mercury  if you choose to get vaccinated for the flu while pregnant.

post #99 of 126
See, where you say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

We homeschool, partly so I could avoid my son being diagnosed with ADHD.
it seems a logical inference that an ADHD diagnosis is something that you would go to a rather significant amount of trouble to avoid. That's what I'm having trouble understanding. The 'ADHD label' does not change who a child is. It does not mean that they must have drugs. It offers insight and an explanation for a number of differences and problems that the person with ADHD has.
post #100 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

The 'ADHD label' does not change who a child is. It does not mean that they must have drugs.

 

Often sadly it does mean a LOT of pressure to take drugs. Clearly a A brain "rewired" from conception.or A high spirited or "disruptive" child should IMO NEVER be put on toxic drugs.

 

"A new study reveals that healthy kids who take Ritalin have a whopping 500 percent greater risk of sudden death. These aren’t kids with pre-existing heart conditions. The results would have been worse if they were included. The same study that found Ritalin stunts kids’ growth also found that it has no beneficial effect on behavior over a three-year period.”    Doctor Al Sears MD, Note most schools receive about 1000 dollars/year for each student they can snare into the drug program

 

"Omega 3 fats DHA and EPA are essential for brain function. In fact 60 percent of the brain consists of DHA. A lack of t these fats is strongly associated with ADHD as well as eczema and immune deficiency." Doctor Mark Hyman MD

 

“Several studies have found that most children with ADHD have deficiencies of certain minerals that are commonly depleted by exposure to toxic metals, such as magnesium and zinc, and most show significant improvement after supplementation with these minerals. Magnesium is the most common significant mineral deficiency among ADHD children, but zinc is commonly deficient among children with ADHD and disruptive behavior disorder.”  Bernard Windham

 

“About 81% of the children in the US are believed to be not getting the RDI of zinc!” CDC

“Sugar can cause hyperactivity, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and crankiness in children. Goldman J et al

 

“Children on low-fat diets suffer from growth problems, failure to thrive & learning disabilities.” Food Chem News 10/3/94

 

“In an analysis of over 160 studies the omega 3 EFAs DHA and EPA along with ALA and folic acid emerged as significant dietary  compounds to enhance learning and memory and prevent mental disorders.” Life Extension

 

"Partially digested dairy and wheat particles are found in the urine of severely depressed patients as well as children with autism and ADHD." Doctor Mark Hyman

 

"Children were 2.5 times more likely to have attention problems that were “clinically significant” if their mothers were among those highest exposed to phthalates, the study found. The types of behavior that increased are found in children with Attention deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and other so-called disruptive behavior disorders."   Chemical Exposure Linked to Attention Deficit Disorder in Children

 

"My approach is simple the first step is to take out the bad stuff irritating you; the second step is to add the good stuff you need to thrive." Doctor Mark Hyman MD

 

“Thousands of children put on psychiatric drugs are simply smart. These students are bored to tears, and people who are bored fidget, wiggle, scratch, stretch, and (especially if they are boys) start looking for ways to get into trouble.” Dr. Sydney Walker, author of The Hyperactivity Hoax

 

“Child psychiatrists are one of the most dangerous enemies not only of children but also of adults. They must be abolished.”  Doctor Thomas Szasz Professor of Psychiatry

 

“I practiced neurology and psychiatry for 30 years, but found to my chagrin that it was largely a huge fraud, despite the fact that most of the doctors I met had the best intentions. They were simply brain-washed.” Doctor Alan Greenberg

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