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Get your SHINGLES vaccine at... Shoprite?!? - Page 2

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

I'm a pharmacist. I have a four-year undergrad degree and a four-year PharmD degree. I immunize. The minimum amount of education by pharmacists in the US is a five-year bachelors degree with three years of that focusing specifically on pharmacy (you can't get that degree anymore, but pharmacists who graduated when that was the going degree are grandfathered in). Pharmacy techs are not allowed to immunize in any state of the US. If techs were immunizing at Eckerd's, they were breaking the law in a big way and I hope you reported them. Pharmacy students are allowed to immunize under the pharmacist's supervision under some circumstances (in my state, they can only give the flu vaccine and only to 18+ yo), so that is the least experienced person you might have giving a vaccine. We also receive specific training; it's not like we're just handed a needle and told to go to town.  

 

Also, we are trained to handle adverse reactions. Not the long-term ones so much, but if we immunize somebody and they start having problems shortly thereafter, we're trained to deal with that. We ask them to stay in the store for 10 minutes so that if they have a fast-onset reaction we are able to help them. (My doctor's office doesn't even do that much. I always want to wait for 10 minutes after my daughter gets a shot, and they typically want us to clear out of the room and wait in the lobby. I haven't gotten the impression that they routinely suggest waiting to patients.)

 

I just wanted to clear up some of the factual disagreements in this thread. 

 

I agree with MeepyCat, just because you personally do not want to get yourself or your family vaccinated, does not make more points of care a bad thing. Each person can make their own decision about whether they want to get vaccinated. For adults who do want to get immunizations and either can't afford to see a doctor or can't get in at a convenient time or just would rather get it over and done with, a pharmacy can be a source of care. 

 

(I don't disagree, though, with the point that if more people were insured it would be a good thing for many reasons.)

 

Thank you for clarifying.

 

I see a stand-alone pharmacy as a different entity than a pharmacy within a grocery store, because they serve different purposes for the most part.  I buy fresh produce at my grocery store.  I expect to see sick people at my stand-alone pharmacy.  It might be different in a smaller town, but my town is big enough that I can make this choice.

 

More points of care is a completely different discussion.  As I understand it, the same vaccines are available at the county health departments.  

 

I do worry that when there are adverse effects and a patient brings them up to their doctor without having received the shot there, the doctor might dismiss it entirely because they did not administer the shot.  Convenience in healthcare does not mean quality.

post #22 of 31

Curious:  do they give the shots behind a screen of some sort?

post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

 

Thank you for clarifying.

 

I see a stand-alone pharmacy as a different entity than a pharmacy within a grocery store, because they serve different purposes for the most part.  I buy fresh produce at my grocery store.  I expect to see sick people at my stand-alone pharmacy.  It might be different in a smaller town, but my town is big enough that I can make this choice.

 

I work for a chain drug store, and we certainly have our own opinions about the grocery store pharmacies (primarily, not liking how they use drugs as a loss-leader), but the pharmacists there are of the same caliber as we are and they may offer additional services just like we do. I don't see where different purposes are served. A retail pharmacy is a retail pharmacy. 

 

More points of care is a completely different discussion.  As I understand it, the same vaccines are available at the county health departments.  

 

Probably. But there's a lot more pharmacies than county health departments, so there is probably one in your neighborhood. I went to mine once for a chest X-ray and I would have had to wait hours. Not sure how the wait is for vaccines. 

 

I do worry that when there are adverse effects and a patient brings them up to their doctor without having received the shot there, the doctor might dismiss it entirely because they did not administer the shot.  Convenience in healthcare does not mean quality.

 

I've seen opinions expressed by many posters here that doctors disregard vaccine reactions, so I'm not sure how this is a change. If the pharmacist performs their duty of care towards the patient, the patient has a delayed reaction, and the doctor ignores it, who is providing the less-than-quality health care? 

 

I don't see how a medical assistant is qualified to give vaccines and I'm not, just because she works in a doctor's office and I work in a pharmacy. I also don't see how her work is of better quality than mine. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Curious:  do they give the shots behind a screen of some sort?

Well, we're supposed to. Like with anything else, it kind of varies because different stores are equipped differently and for the chain I work for, a lot of locations were built before there was any need for private areas. Those stores have mostly been retrofitted with screens though. Some of the newer stores have private rooms. I'm not sure what the other chains do but I suspect it's similar.

post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

Its sad that so many people are uninsured and would have to rely on the grocery store for medical procedures. Instead of performing what could be a risky procedure at the grocery store why not focus on more people getting insurance (I know this is a bit OT at this point but...)? Why not deal with the actual issue and make doctors more available to the general public, instead of injecting medical procedures where they do not belong?

 


I'd love it if everyone had insurance.  I'm happy to work for that.  But I don't have to choose one problem and one problem only.  I can be in favor of universal health care, AND ALSO in favor of easier access, i.e., more points of care.  In my opinion, since both of these things are issues that prevent people from receiving medical care, it only makes sense to tackle both of them.  I'd love to make doctors more available to the public too, but first we'd need to make a lot more doctors.

 

I'm just not going to agree with you on the point that an injection is a "medical procedure" in a way that needs some kind of special safe space that can't be meaningfully constructed in a retail establishment.  Or that the grocery store pharmacy is a kind of special place where anything you think is a medical procedure doesn't belong. 

post #25 of 31

If the shot:

 

-takes place behind a screen

-the person has to wait the recommended amount of time before leaving the wait area

-a trained professional gives the shot and watches for reactions,

 

Then I can live with it - although I am not in love with the idea.  The whole get your milk, bread and vaccines thing undervalues the seriousness of vaccines in my eyes.  I accept other serious medicines in grocery pharmacies, so I guess I can accept vaccines as long as the above criteria are met, and as long as no one tries to sell me the vaccine (other than a sign saying they are available at this location).  I would not tolerate anyone trying to hard or direct sell me on any medicine.

post #26 of 31
The access to care argument makes sense to me. I may not choose to vax, but to many it is a legit part of health care. It isn't so much the availability of vaccines at grocery stores as the advertising that really gets to me. It's part of a larger increase in vax propaganda, and lately those big signs advertising flu, tdap, and whatnot dominate the front entrance of pharmacies and grocery stores in my area... Until a few years ago when I began to do more research and connect some dots, I used to get my asthmatic child a flu shot annually, as her dr recommended. We've used the grocery store pharmacy for this once, out of convenience (and to save paying a drs copay). It's only been more recently, however, that advertising has exploded. And the bandaid comparison is a gross oversimplification. These are serious drugs marketed to the sick and the healthy alike, and they're being dispensed freely, as if they're totally benign.
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

Yes, there is a huge difference between buying band aids and getting an injection.
The fundamental argument I've been attempting to make is that grocery stores and pharmacies are a vital part of the existing health care system, and, in that context, it makes sense to offer vaccines in grocery stores.
For most of us, the grocery store is the easiest place to go when we need to care for our health, or the health of our families. It's quicker and usually closer then the doctor.
If you're uninsured, the grocery store may be your only source of health care.
If you think vaccines are good - and that's what experts and authorities on public health think - you'd want them available at the grocery store.
I'm saying that you can argue that vaccines are bad if you want (I disagree, but Bokonen wants to be very sure I respect the parameters of the forum), however, I think you have a much harder time arguing that more access to health care is bad, and that when you object to medical procedures at the grocery store, you're arguing that access to care should be limited. I feel okay arguing for more and better health care access even when I'm being reminded that I don't belong here.
Amanda, i'd be disturbed if someone was giving themself a shot in the grocery line. I've given myself shots. It's a bad thing to multitask. I want them to go sit down someplace and take the time to make sure they don't drop the alcohol wipe or anything, and I want them to have proper sharps disposal. A chair by the pharmacy counter, with a pharmacist wielding the needle, doesn't bug me at all. It's a different situation.

Why does a grocery store need to be fundamental to healthcare? Just like why must a pharmacy sell groceries?? Because we have this seriously disturbing obsession with one stop shopping.  Large corporations that multitask in their distribution of products to consumer - get your tires rotated, nails done, eyes checked out, deposit your paycheck, and flu shots all in one!  It is proof of how much we try to cram into our daily lives in order to keep up with the joneses.  Kids cant just be kids and play, they need their own calendars to schedule all the meetings, lesssons, and practices.  And us adults? We cater to that lifestyle as it mirrors our own.  I'll take a simpler life any day. Wanna know why the economy is in the shitter? Just look at how we do business on a day to day basis - oh and don't forget to get your flu vax before you pick up your eggs and milk - wouldn't want them to spoil in the cart.

post #28 of 31
I don't have a problem with a pharmacist being the one to give a shot, whether it be in a grocery store, a Kmart, or a stand-alone pharmacy. I don't see that it's any worse than being given a shot by a nurse in a doctor's office, or by a nurse's aide in a hospital.

What I see as a huge problem is that none of them, not even the doctors, are appropriately trained to screen for predisposition to long-term adverse effects of the shot, nor is there ANY follow-up for such reactions. And when such reactions are reported, we are told that they are just a coincidence.

On the subject of adequate training, by the way, the last 3 times I've had blood drawn, at 3 different locations, the phlebotomist set out everything she was going to use, including the cotton that went on the skin, RIGHT ON THE COUNTER. Which did not look at all clean, and she didn't wipe it when I came in, or before the next person.

They used to open up a fresh gauze pad, and put everything on that.

Not any more. This time, I asked her if she was supposed to, and shr said no, she was only required to wipe the arm of the chair between patients. (But I didn't see her do that, either.)
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

I don't have a problem with a pharmacist being the one to give a shot, whether it be in a grocery store, a Kmart, or a stand-alone pharmacy. I don't see that it's any worse than being given a shot by a nurse in a doctor's office, or by a nurse's aide in a hospital.
What I see as a huge problem is that none of them, not even the doctors, are appropriately trained to screen for predisposition to long-term adverse effects of the shot, nor is there ANY follow-up for such reactions. And when such reactions are reported, we are told that they are just a coincidence.
On the subject of adequate training, by the way, the last 3 times I've had blood drawn, at 3 different locations, the phlebotomist set out everything she was going to use, including the cotton that went on the skin, RIGHT ON THE COUNTER. Which did not look at all clean, and she didn't wipe it when I came in, or before the next person.
They used to open up a fresh gauze pad, and put everything on that.
Not any more. This time, I asked her if she was supposed to, and shr said no, she was only required to wipe the arm of the chair between patients. (But I didn't see her do that, either.)


That sounds gross. To be honest, I would not have my blood drawn there. Or wait - maybe you should have gotten the Hep B shot first.

post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post

Why does a grocery store need to be fundamental to healthcare? Just like why must a pharmacy sell groceries?? Because we have this seriously disturbing obsession with one stop shopping.  Large corporations that multitask in their distribution of products to consumer - get your tires rotated, nails done, eyes checked out, deposit your paycheck, and flu shots all in one!  It is proof of how much we try to cram into our daily lives in order to keep up with the joneses.  Kids cant just be kids and play, they need their own calendars to schedule all the meetings, lesssons, and practices.  And us adults? We cater to that lifestyle as it mirrors our own.  I'll take a simpler life any day. Wanna know why the economy is in the shitter? Just look at how we do business on a day to day basis - oh and don't forget to get your flu vax before you pick up your eggs and milk - wouldn't want them to spoil in the cart.

I don't disagree with a lot of this, but bear in mind that there are a lot of people out there who either can't access preventative care or aren't sure what they need. For somebody who wants a flu shot and doesn't have a car and therefore has to ride the bus to their doctor's office and wait in the waiting room for 3 hours, and can't afford to take that time off work, being able to walk to their nearby grocery store or pharmacy and get the shot is a big advantage. As for the marketing, I have kind of varying opinions on that but there are people who don't even know that a vaccine exists for shingles or whooping cough or pneumonia, and while they know a flu vaccine exists they don't know they can get it at the pharmacy. Those are the groups that are being targeted in hopes the ads will cause them to ask and they can discuss it with the pharmacist and potentially their doctor. 

 

I surprised myself by actually agreeing with taximom on something when she said (paraphrased) that there isn't enough "digging deeper" to see who is predisposed to reactions. I do think that's a problem in our health system in general. People expect their drugs--they don't expect an analysis of whether the drug is really appropriate for them--and this applies to vaccines as well. Providers don't have time to conduct those in-depth analyses, so we have to rely on algorithms that are often based on insufficient data. Patient information is often spread across a bunch of different computer systems that don't talk to each other. And it's all a big mess. For a non vaccine-related example, if you were in an accident as a child and hit your head hard, you may be more prone to having a seizure as a side effect of certain drugs, and should probably avoid those drugs. But who mentions in a medical history that they hit their head 20 years ago when they're perfectly fine now? What provider asks that question? 

post #31 of 31

My Safeway does that too. I laughed the first time I saw it.... Kinda a mocking laugh rather than haha funny.

 

My sister kept whiting out after a flu shot. She got it somewhere off the wall across from where she worked and barely made it across the parking lot. I think she missed some work and went to the dr. She was totally healthy and probably about 22 or 23 yrs old.

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