Starting fresh - a pediatrician's perspective - Page 6

[AmandaT]

Woah there. I believe you need to read this: http://www.mothering.com/community/a/vaccination-forum-guidelines

[ma2two]

mgrella, it's good to see you posting again in this thread. Since you titled this thread "a pediatrician's perspective," I have a pretty simple but important question for you, that I previously asked Sept 11 and Sept 19, but still haven't gotten an answer:

What would you do if a baby who was a patient of yours cried inconsolably for 5 hours following the standard 2 month vaccines?

Would you give the baby the standard vaccines at 4 months? Or would you do something different?

[Adaline'sMama]

From what I understand the US does have the highest infant death rate in the developed world. Id love to find out that it's not true. 

[purplerose]

The US has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. That is not anything new...

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

From what I understand the US does have the highest infant death rate in the developed world. Id love to find out that it's not true. 

Taximom said

You seem to be ignoring the fact that we live in a country where our infant death rathes and autoimmune disease rates are the highest in the world BECAUSE OF VACCINES.

She didn't specify the developed world.

[Adaline'sMama]

Gotcha. I didnt read that wall of text. I just saw the dr.'s comment on it. Thanks :)

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by mgrella 

Your utter lack of a sense of scale is astounding.  Nothing is 100% safe.  This includes vaccines and cars and planes and crossing the street and eating lettuce and drinking water.  But we all fly and drive and walk and drink water.  Life does not guarantee a soft and fuzzy outcome, because life is inherently risky.  What allows humanity to move forward is to minimize risk with strategies that increase everyone's odds of living longer and healthier.  This is what vaccines do: decrease everyone's risk:benefit ratio.  There is no other math for those in public health.
Your strategy is rather to take case reports and try to generalize them to an entire industry.
Your strategy is to make a few misguided people into a massive conspiracy.
Your strategy is to equate a small percentage of side effects with the risk of massive epidemics. 

If we all stopped using measles (or pertussis, or H. flu, or pneumococcal) vaccine today, you would lose family and friends (that is, they would be dead).  And every person who reads your nonsense and defers an important vaccine and whose child gets a preventable illness is being harmed by your influence.
Again, feel free to not not vaccinate your kids - if we all did the same we'd be back to over 2 million deaths per year from measles.
Then there's HiB meningitis. 
Then there's polio (oh, but you AREN'T moving to Pakistan or Afghanistan with your unvaxed kids, are you?).
And did you actually say that our infant death rate is the highest in the world? 

7


Taximom brought up many good points with cited references. Care to comment on each of her specific concerns?

We all know life has risks doctor. No need to patronize us.

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

mgrella, it's good to see you posting again in this thread. Since you titled this thread "a pediatrician's perspective," I have a pretty simple but important question for you, that I previously asked Sept 11 and Sept 19, but still haven't gotten an answer:

What would you do if a baby who was a patient of yours cried inconsolably for 5 hours following the standard 2 month vaccines?

Would you give the baby the standard vaccines at 4 months? Or would you do something different?

Since no questions have really been answered, a person can only assume the intent is to patronize those of us who dare to question the issue...

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 


Taximom said
She didn't specify the developed world.

Thanks--I'll correct that.

[Mosaic]

mgrella, your post crosses the line. Calling another member's post "nonsense" is not respectful. You are free to disagree with others and to passionately express that here; but you must remain civil and respectful and address the issues and not the poster. Review both the user agreement and the forum guidelines if you're unclear about the rules.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

Originally Posted by mgrella 

Your utter lack of a sense of scale is astounding.  Nothing is 100% safe.  This includes vaccines and cars and planes and crossing the street and eating lettuce and drinking water.  But we all fly and drive and walk and drink water.  Life does not guarantee a soft and fuzzy outcome, because life is inherently risky.  What allows humanity to move forward is to minimize risk with strategies that increase everyone's odds of living longer and healthier.  This is what vaccines do: decrease everyone's risk:benefit ratio.  There is no other math for those in public health.

Your strategy is rather to take case reports and try to generalize them to an entire industry.

Your strategy is to make a few misguided people into a massive conspiracy.

Your strategy is to equate a small percentage of side effects with the risk of massive epidemics. 

If we all stopped using measles (or pertussis, or H. flu, or pneumococcal) vaccine today, you would lose family and friends (that is, they would be dead).  And every person who reads your nonsense and defers an important vaccine and whose child gets a preventable illness is being harmed by your influence.

Again, feel free to not not vaccinate your kids - if we all did the same we'd be back to over 2 million deaths per year from measles.

Then there's HiB meningitis. 

Then there's polio (oh, but you AREN'T moving to Pakistan or Afghanistan with your unvaxed kids, are you?).

And did you actually say that our infant death rate is the highest in the world? 

I'm curious why you titled this thread the way you did.  What about your perspective is a fresh start? 

Originally Posted by emmy526 

Since no questions have really been answered, a person can only assume the intent is to patronize those of us who dare to question the issue...

I initially started following this thread because I was hoping for a legitimate fresh perspective.  It's so frustrating to want to have discussions about this with healthcare workers and to just keep having the same angry response of downplaying concerns and not being willing to talk about them. 

Still waiting on an answer about the 5 hours of crying too...

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by CrunchyChristianMama 

I'm curious why you titled this thread the way you did.  What about your perspective is a fresh start? 

I initially started following this thread because I was hoping for a legitimate fresh perspective.  It's so frustrating to want to have discussions about this with healthcare workers and to just keep having the same angry response of downplaying concerns and not being willing to talk about them. 

Still waiting on an answer about the 5 hours of crying too...

keep waiting. Please read reviews of this doctor online. It is VERY enlightening and actually makes this whole thread make more sense.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

keep waiting. Please read reviews of this doctor online. It is VERY enlightening and actually makes this whole thread make more sense.

Yes, indeed. It was quite eye opening.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

keep waiting. Please read reviews of this doctor online. It is VERY enlightening and actually makes this whole thread make more sense.

Interesting indeed.

[Juvysen]

Bummer.  I'm dying to talk research with someone who is open to discussion.

[WildKingdom]

Seriously.  You guys have been so warm and welcoming to him!  I can't believe that he lost patience.  After all, it's only required that he have an open mind right?  No one else on the forum should try to return the favor.

[AmandaT]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Seriously.  You guys have been so warm and welcoming to him!  I can't believe that he lost patience.  After all, it's only required that he have an open mind right?  No one else on the forum should try to return the favor.

An open mind to what? New information was never introduced, and a new prospective was never given. It was the same talking points one can hear walking into almost any pediatrician's office. And then, after two weeks, RAGE!!!!!

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Seriously.  You guys have been so warm and welcoming to him!  I can't believe that he lost patience.  After all, it's only required that he have an open mind right?  No one else on the forum should try to return the favor.

Well, I didn't say anything previously (just lurked), but for what it's worth I was interested in keeping an open mind.  I'm tired of feeling like a conspiracy theorist, I want to hear answers to why I'm seeing these other things without them simply being swept under the rug as it seems to typically happen...

Of course this is not the only area that I feel like this.  Other areas of medicine, health, blah blah blah.  Just... why??  I refuse to believe that it's all part of some big evil plot, I guess.  It just feels suspect when questions are blown off and we're just fed the party line, though.  I want to hear reasonable explanations on why the death rates for, say, polio dropped significantly before the addition of the vaccine, but the vaccine is hailed as the savior, yk? 

I also don't believe anything's perfect and so all the "vaccines are perfectly safe" stuff makes me irritated and leaves me feeling talked down to.  I would respect a doctor so much more who talks about risks and benefits, beyond just what the CDC says.  Sorry, I don't think the CDC's perfect, either.  We KNOW the FDA isn't exactly wonderful at screening drugs or things like vioxx never would have happened... so just saying "the system works" makes it very hard to trust the rest of what the person says.

**ETA** not that I would think the person was part of some evil plot, just that they're well indoctrinated in the "party line"... just like I was for many years.

[MountainMamaGC]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

Flu is made with a dead virus. It can't give anyone flu. It just can't. Not a scientific possibility

Flu mist is a live virus, and it can shed, and cause flu like symptoms. 

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by MountainMamaGC 

Flu mist is a live virus, and it can shed, and cause flu like symptoms. 

She was responding to this, in post #63:

Quote:

Varicella 1/10,000 deaths in the US. This is considered rare according to US and Canada definitions. Polio is asymptomatic in 95% of cases and the flu shot has recently been found to actually give people the flu.

Refuting a specific mention of the flu shot, not flu vaccine.