Pumping Advice/Insight/Experience? (aka My Life as a Milk Cow) « Back to Group Discussions

[rozziemama]

Hello lovely mamas. It's been SO long since I last posted here. This is mostly due to my return to work and how TOTALLY INSANE AND CHAOTIC life suddenly became...

I have been skimming the group and missing a bit those days when I could really read and post! Today I'm here because I'm really in need of advice and maybe support and some BTDT experience from all of you.  I suppose this targets the full time working moms who are breastfeeding their babes.

So, I've been successfully EBF'ing DS2, and just as with DS1, it just has been going so well... I am convinced something like half and half comes out of my boobs because he's enormous and nurses for like 5 minutes MAX and only on one side at a time.

With DS1, I breastfed for 16 months. I returned to work at 12 weeks and pumped until his first birthday when I continued to BF but happily gave my pump to another new mom to borrow, since DS could drink milk now and was eating a lot of solid food, etc.

I felt great having pumped for 9 straight months, and never giving formula. I can state definitively that breastfeeding while working full time was 100% a success with DS1.

So, now I'm back at work and, much to the chagrin of my nipples, back at the pump again.  Only this time, my job is much more intense (it's the same place I was working four years ago but I've since been promoted and have a lot more responsibility... days are FULL when I'm here).  I am lucky my work is supportive of my need to pump, I can pump at my desk, so I definitely can multi task, but I am having SO MUCH TROUBLE this time.

I know I have plenty of supply when I'm at home and actually feeding him, but I am afraid that I just can't find the time to pump the 15-17 ounces of milk DS2 needs while I'm gone.

I'm feeling super stressed out about it (which I know doesn't help with production) but seriously it's so hard to fill a full bottle.

Yesterday, I had back to back meetings and wasn't able to eat lunch until 3pm (!) because I had to spend all my "free time" (mute on conference calls!) pumping milk for DS. And I still only barely pumped 15 ounces.

DS is a big baby, and he chugs a 5 oz bottle very quickly. While he is clearly growing and so I guess getting enough food, I wouldn't be surprised if he were able to eat 8 oz at a time especially in the morning when he is the most hungry.

He basically nurses (cluster feeds?) from when i get home at 5-ish until bedtime at 7-ish.

So, essentially, I am nursing ALL THE TIME that I'm home, and when I'm away I need to be pumping all the time to fill the bottles he needs while I'm at work.

And to make matters more complicated, there are a few weekend events coming up where I'm going to need to leave the baby with his grandma and use some of that precious milk on a Saturday -

and then, in early December.... my first over night work trip... I never did overnight travel when DS1 was that small (I guess he will be 7 months by then but I don't think I traveled overnight until DS1 was about 11 months old). 

So all of this to say -- do I just give in and buy some formula to supplement if/when I can't pump enough bottles?  I know that formula isn't the worst thing in the world and I've even given advice to some mommy friends to use it if that's how they maintain their sanity.

But I am having so much trouble taking my own advice.  I know it would be great on a Saturday morning to go to my 1.5 hour yoga class and not worry about having to pump a bottle or use up my precious work milk supply ... But it kills me to give DS formula.

It really does.
Am I just being overly emotional here?

What is it about formula - especially when I really wouldn't be using it that often, and then just a few ounces here and there - that makes me cringe, and makes me so depressed? 

[smilingsara]

I'm not a BTDT mama but I have a suggestion

Instead of formula do yOu feel he may be ready to start rice cereal or purees or something? Maybe suplimenting with some food will help you feel better about him eating enough while you're at work.

Before Soren was born, DP left bottles of milk for me for Shay. He drank so much while she was gone because he wanted to suck on something. Once we started him on foods, a few bottles were cut out of his days and it seemed easier on DP and her pumping during her 14 hour work days.

Hope that helps.

[rozziemama]

This is a great suggestion. He has his 4 month pedi appt on Wednesday next week, and I have been planning to discuss the feeding questions - I know we started DS1 on some rice cereal and sweet potatoes, pears, etc around 5-51/2 months. I know I'd feel a lot better about giving him actual food.

I do have the sense (since this is the second time I've done this) that this issue is kind of a moment-in-time type of thing, if that makes sense - because as more solids are introduced he will be relying less on those bottles during the day. I don't mind nursing more often when I am home - heck I'll nurse him nonstop from 530 til bedtime (though that's kind of what I'm already doing) - I just really can't add more pumping sessions. I feel like I might even have a strange itchy rash from the pump shield. Gross. 

And I also am worried about the overnight trip in December... though by then he'll really be on solids so it might be OK.

Originally Posted by smilingsara 

I'm not a BTDT mama but I have a suggestion
Instead of formula do yOu feel he may be ready to start rice cereal or purees or something? Maybe suplimenting with some food will help you feel better about him eating enough while you're at work.
Before Soren was born, DP left bottles of milk for me for Shay. He drank so much while she was gone because he wanted to suck on something. Once we started him on foods, a few bottles were cut out of his days and it seemed easier on DP and her pumping during her 14 hour work days.
Hope that helps.

[Masel]

I pump exclusively for my baby. I take fenugreek. There is nothng wrong with my supply but it helps me optimize the time I do take for pumping. 

[forestmushroom]

I don't think it is good to start solids until 6 months?! Right? And isn't rice cereal bad for babies, too?

http://parentingsquad.com/first-foods-why-white-rice-cereal-is-bad-for-your-baby

Here is a good link on delaying solids: http://kellymom.com/nutrition/starting-solids/delay-solids/

Honestly, if the choice was between solids and formula at 4/5 months, I would supplement with formula--at least it is nutritionally complete for a baby. Rice cereal is like feeding a baby sugar. I cringe when I read the ingredients in formula as well...

But then I am a big baby led weaning advocate....
 

Sorry not the best advice!

[BubbleMa]

Originally Posted by forestmushroom 

I don't think it is good to start solids until 6 months?! Right? And isn't rice cereal bad for babies, too?

http://parentingsquad.com/first-foods-why-white-rice-cereal-is-bad-for-your-baby

Here is a good link on delaying solids: http://kellymom.com/nutrition/starting-solids/delay-solids/

Honestly, if the choice was between solids and formula at 4/5 months, I would supplement with formula--at least it is nutritionally complete for a baby. Rice cereal is like feeding a baby sugar. I cringe when I read the ingredients in formula as well...

But then I am a big baby led weaning advocate....
 

Sorry not the best advice!

This!  Unless you're making your own from actual whole grains.  But even then I'd wait until at least 6 months.  Their guts aren't ready for anything but breastmilk until until then.  What about donor milk?

[rozziemama]

Thanks everyone. 

So, with my first I started on a little bit of solids at about 5 1/2 months. This was much more about his experience than his nutrition. Kiddo was still chugging breastmilk like nobody's business but by 5 1/2 months he was literally making us feel awkward at mealtime the way he'd stare at us while we were eating and even open and close his mouth mimicking chewing.

So, we gave him a bit of pureed sweet potatoes mixed with breastmilk and rice cereal to see what he'd think... And he loved it - and he became an amazing eater (still is at almost 4), and still was breastfed til 16 months when we kind of weaned each other.  That's what I mean by starting solids. It's not really something that will be a major source of nutrition at 5 1/2 or 6 months, but definitely by 7 months, if this baby is like my first (and he's already starting that awkward staring at us while we're eating thing) he will be getting one "meal" a day. Maybe even two. I can't really remember.

I am going to push through the pumping thing as long as I can without supplementing. But I am also not going to beat myself up if some days I cant keep up. FYI I got some great suggestions on bottle feeding the breastfed baby in the breastfeeding forum: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1363232/pumping-working-mom-challenge#post_17109770

[cristeen]

I don't have the time to read the responses, but the first thing to pop into my head is that 5 oz at one sitting is a LOT.  Who is watching him while you're working?  Can you talk to them about trying paced bottle feeding?  How about trying more distraction or other techniques?  How much of that milk is coming back up?  Ezri has been bottle fed from the beginning, and even now can't take a 5 oz bottle in a sitting unless she's just woken from an 8-hour stretch.  I know my toddler couldn't take a 5 ozer until closer to 6 mos, which is, I believe, the normal progression for a BF'd baby.  Have them try giving him 3 oz and then distracting him for 10 minutes before giving him any more.  If he's still hungry after 10 mins, then he's still hungry, but that gives his body enough time to recognize the milk in his tummy, and maybe he's not really hungry any more. 

As for having the trouble with pumping - do I really need to point out that the multi-tasking is probably part of the problem?  What I would suggest, if you can't actually spend the full pumping time just *pumping*, is to take maybe one minute when you first turn on the pump to do some deep breathing, eyes closed, visualizing your baby.  Bring a dirty shirt with you if scent will help.  Record him babbling/cooing/crying and play that back if it'll help.  Do whatever you can to convince your body that your baby is right there with you.  Spend 60 or 90 seconds concentrating on the task at hand (milk production) before you go back to your work. 

Additionally, I would start hooking up the pump at home.  Pump on one side and nurse on the other.  He'll stimulate your let-down for the pump, which makes it easier to get more. If he's only taking one breast at a feeding, he won't know the difference, and it may allow you to store up a little extra.  You may even see an increase in your supply just by doing that a few times a day.  It's not fun, I know, but we do what we have to.

And when it comes right down to it, I'd supplement before starting solids early.  Solids before one are for fun, not nutrition.  He still needs mama's milk or the closest we can get to it - formula. 

As for the emotional impact, you just will have to work through that.  I had a really hard time with it, and it contributed to my PPD with DS.  But it is what it is.  Alternatively, you can ask around if any of your local friends have/make extra.  It's not something most women talk about, I've found, but you might be surprised how many women have a little more in their freezer than they can readily use.  I would not recommend donor milk (going through a donation organization) in this instance because you are able to mostly BF.  That is my personal hang-up as someone who has needed to use exclusively donor milk for 2 kids now and you may feel differently. 

HTH

[forestmushroom]

cristeen has excellent advice! when my first baby was a baby I worked a *very stressful* full time job. I literally had no breaks except to pump. I would bring a picture photo book of my baby, and sit and sing songs I would sing to him, and think about him... and even a recording of his crying on my cell phone!  Would make the milk flow...

Good luck mama!  not to freak out about the food... and even if you do give your baby some formula it is okay. Love and do what you will.
 

[rozziemama]

Cristeen and Forest, such great advice, and thank you for the support. I am curious though - wrt the 5 oz bottles - thats also how much DS1 was drinking at daycare at 4, 5 months. Kai has his 4 month check up tomorrow, but at 8 weeks he was 16 pounds, so he's really big - and tall. For others with big ones drinking from the bottle during the day (or whenever) - how much do they eat at a time? Kai does 3 5 oz bottles between 9 - 5 pm.

[KM84]

Originally Posted by rozziemama 

Cristeen and Forest, such great advice, and thank you for the support. I am curious though - wrt the 5 oz bottles - thats also how much DS1 was drinking at daycare at 4, 5 months. Kai has his 4 month check up tomorrow, but at 8 weeks he was 16 pounds, so he's really big - and tall. For others with big ones drinking from the bottle during the day (or whenever) - how much do they eat at a time? Kai does 3 5 oz bottles between 9 - 5 pm.

Our baby is 90th percentile everything (including head size, oof), and she drinks 2oz of ebm every ~2 hours when I'm not there to nurse her. At night she gets 4oz before bed. Granted, she has reflux issues so our doctor told us to give her more frequent, smaller bottles. The rule of thumb we were given was 1 oz per hour, with a little more during the day if she sleeps a long stretch at night (I wish).

[Kamiro]

**POST IS RIDDLED WITH (possibly) BAD ADVICE****

Rozzie!!!! HI!!!!

Ok I'm going to be the lone wolf out here because I have been giving D. solids for about 2 weeks now and outside of the diapers smelling not as sweet as newborn poo, I am loving it and so is she.

So this is just 1 mom to another type experience, NO it isn't backed by science.  It may even be a step below anecdotal....more akin to the kind of advice your mom gives you that is just sooo outdated.

Then... sometimes you find out that advice works and the parenting books LIE, damnit.

:rofl:

I was at the 'formula or solids?' stage myself and I have to say I feel like solids was the right decision here. I give her oatmeal with some water and oil at breakfast time, and in the evening I'll give her some sweet potato or fruit puree. I have been glued to our chair nursing for 4 1/2 months now because for every 2 hours, I'm nursing 1 on most days. Which if she was my only one and that is all I had to do - might be very feasible and even enjoyable..but that isn't my reality (and I know its no one elses either).

She wasn't acting like she was getting enough to eat (as for weight gain and all that I *think* she looks healthy, in 6-9 month clothing already) but she was lunging for food and watching in attention so I just decided to not stress and start feeding her purees off and on. Well, she gets so excited to see the food and now has attentive, happy time where she acts like she has a full tummy.

Shes even gotten a bit of double chin lately...lol

Nursing has now gotten down to about 3 hours a day. (Yes, shes eating. Yes, she uses a binkie for sucking..Yes I'm producing..)

So...I've read whats in formula (i've fed 3 of my kids formula) and honestly, I am trying very hard this go round to avoid it. Only one of my kids has poop issues related to special needs, so it isn't like formula did any of them a disservice to the best of my knowledge..

IMHO your babe sounds like he might be ready for some purees. I may be naive but every babe develops differently and there isn't something that magically says "Oh! I was born 6 months to the day so now I am ready for solids!" just like that, now is there? We're about 6 weeks off from that 6 month mark. Some kids will be ready and some won't before, on, or even after that day- right?

I'm just thinking that she is really thriving here.

I had to hand pump 4 oz and had to take my child in for an urgent dentist appoint and was going to be gone a minimum of 5 hours...All the stores were out of goats milk...

You probably don't want to know what I left for a bottle filler while I was gone...

Ok, sure you do..

***WARNING*** I interrupt this post to tell you that this is what *I* did, knowing my baby and family history best and that this is NOT advice, just my experience.

lol

ok.

Coconut milk from the daily case (not the canned kind). Yes, coconut milk that says right on it in bolded letters "NOT TO BE USED AS AN INFANT FORMULA"

I told my husband that I felt more right about using that as a substitute in a bottle over formula. All I had to do was compare ingredients and vitamin count and the choice became obvious for me.

I wouldn't substitute it on a regular basis if I was bottle feeding (I would go for formula for that) but for the occasional bottle filler in my breast fed infant - no qualms about it at all.

Ok..all my dirty mothering laundry is out for all to see. Ijust wanted to share what has been working for us.

I'm going to go snuggle in bed with my little chunkamuffin cause its late and I am cracking myself up here...

Love you guys. Good to hear from you Rozzie!!! <3

[smilingsara]

rozzie: dp also said to tell you that your milk supply is highest in the mornings and to pump when you feed him before your leave for work and also pump about an hour or so after that it really get as much of the heavy milk flow time as you can. Also, Shay was a HUGE baby and still is and he never takes more than a 4 ounce bottle per feeding. When he was smaller it was a 3 oz bottle every 90 minutes or so and if it was any more than 3 ounces, he'd drink it all but spit up a lot and then be hungry again. Maybe try smaller bottles more frequently?!

How's it going these days?!

[rozziemama]

Hi again! Thank you for this dialogue. It's so good to have a huge group of wonderful mamas with babies all the same age to discuss this stuff with.  Onemore! you really crack me up. Just FYI, my pediatrician totally backed up your position on solids - as in, no magic 6 month moment, and some babies may be ready earlier while others are not. She actually told me she prefers if we start around 5 1/2 months so we can have a check in at 6 month check up.

I think Kai is going to be ready early. I gave him a lick of the juicy pear I was eating the other day, and he totally lunged for my avocado yesterday - he is reaching for food.

I also bought a can of earth's best formula... with the idea that we would only use in emergencies - if i cant find time to pump because of work schedule being crazed, or if he runs out of milk.

I haven't needed to go there yet, I'm still dealing with my emotional baggage but I am trying to think of formula as another type of food... not a replacement for me...

the Dr also made me feel a bit better reminding me that he still will MOSTLY be drinking breastmilk, and he will still get all the benefits of it. By the time I have to do the overnight work travel he will be on solids fully, so I shouldn't worry.  Also - perhaps just having the can of formula available will take some of the stress away which should help with the pumping.. Who knows. It's not really a question of supply so the stress is more just about my general happiness and well being!

Incidentally, i also bought a new shield for my medela pump - the hard kind - and I think it actually helps me pump more.

And in terms of when is best to pump - mornings by far are the best for me. My supply is ridiculous in the morning. And then, it gets really low around noon - but actually seems to go back up in the afternoon around 3. So my midday pumping session is my most stressful. 

[smilingsara]

rozzie: My partner pumps every time she goes to work but Shay has been preferring just to nurse with me while she is gone (talk about draining!). I'll ask her if she'd feel okay with pumping and putting some away for you if you'd like. She doesn't eat any dairy because her body doesn't process it well and thus it makes the babies sick. 

[rozziemama]

Thanks Sara - that is an amazing thing to offer, but I feel like her milk would be better shared with mamas who have more supply issues/younger babies -- I've had the formula for a week and still not used it, and I'll prob start on solids in a few weeks you know? this pumping challenge, while really hard, might actually be a blip in my breastfeeding experience with Kai ... and for some reason, I've been totally engorged the past several days, so I'm trying to pump an extra bottle on the weekend to make it less stressful during the week. Bottom line is as Cristeen and others have suggested: less stress = less milk...

Also I have been drinking Mothers Milk tea and eating almonds, oats, etc. (beer :) )

Plus I totally think the harder medela breast shield is better than the soft one at getting the milk out for some reason.
But anyway! Thank you!!!!
 

[rozziemama]

also PS - I cannot imagine nursing two kids. How you mamas with multiple little ones nursing ever manage to stay upright is beyond me. You are heroes.

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by rozziemama 

Cristeen and Forest, such great advice, and thank you for the support. I am curious though - wrt the 5 oz bottles - thats also how much DS1 was drinking at daycare at 4, 5 months. Kai has his 4 month check up tomorrow, but at 8 weeks he was 16 pounds, so he's really big - and tall. For others with big ones drinking from the bottle during the day (or whenever) - how much do they eat at a time? Kai does 3 5 oz bottles between 9 - 5 pm.

So that works out to almost 2 oz per hour. That's a LOT of milk. Is he STTN?

If he is in a care situation w other kids (not one-on-one care), many DCP will offer the bottle as a soother particularly if he doesn't take a paci. They may not have the time, energy or inclination to try several things to calm him if the bottle works. But that means he may be getting fed when he's not actually hungry, which is not an efficient use of your precious stash. The suggestions I made above would help you to determine whether he does in fact need that much. It would be unusual, but not unheard of.

I'm glad things are improving.

[rozziemama]

He has been in one on one care this past month but is starting group care on Monday...

thing is, Kai takes the paci. Kiddo sucks on anything  - nipple, bottle, paci, thumb, random teething toys, blankets, etc. he is a very oral baby!

I think he may need 5 oz bottles. I think he really is that hungry....

As for STTN... Kai started to sleep from about 7 to 5 or even 6 at 10 or 12 weeks. Really sleep, with no wake ups!

It made my return to work so much easier!

But now - at 20 weeks - he has STOPPED. total sleep regression. He wants to nurse at 3 am - and thats after 3 5 oz bottles while I am gone, nursing about 3 more times once I come home - cluster feeds, at 5:30, 6:15 and then around 7 before I put him in his crib.

And at 3 am when he wakes -- he wont take the paci, even if I am holding him in my arms, or DH is -- and he *really* nurses - seems ravenous! gulping down milk.

So, needless to say I am strung out with sleep deprivation and exhausted from making so much milk/nursing/pumping while working full time.

This is why I really think I will start solids in the next week or so. I just physically can't keep up and he really seems hungry.

Originally Posted by cristeen 


So that works out to almost 2 oz per hour. That's a LOT of milk. Is he STTN?
If he is in a care situation w other kids (not one-on-one care), many DCP will offer the bottle as a soother particularly if he doesn't take a paci. They may not have the time, energy or inclination to try several things to calm him if the bottle works. But that means he may be getting fed when he's not actually hungry, which is not an efficient use of your precious stash. The suggestions I made above would help you to determine whether he does in fact need that much. It would be unusual, but not unheard of.
I'm glad things are improving.

[MLog]

Last month at the LLL meeting I went to I'm pretty sure someone mentioned changes in eating/sleeping habits happening between 4 and 6 months and that babies who had previously slept through the night would all of a sudden be up multiple times needing to nurse.  So maybe this is what is happening with Kai.  They just keep on growing and growing!