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How much food is too much? - Page 2

post #21 of 38
Thread Starter 
Yeah we are definitely not doing that... We don't tend to eat much around her honestly, but knowing my DD, forbidden foods are probably pretty intriguing. I think your theory is really interesting. I wish I knew how to solve for it without destroying the progress we have made on the allergy diet. I don't want to go back to the days of chronic loose stool either greensad.gif
post #22 of 38
I have to chime in that it sounds like there could be a real link between the dynamic and her obsession. My husband is on a very restrictive diet to eliminate health issues, and while he was trying to do his elimination stuff, he found it so much easier when we'd eat together...the same stuff. And then I'd just use other times to get different food in me. Kids use play to process what they're trying to master and understand. You said she used to ask for food with you but doesn't any more...I doubt this is because she doesn't still want to but rather she knows the answer already. Eating is very social. Consider whether when you sit down to eat, you can all eat the same things as a way of supporting her emotionally during a difficult time of deprivation (as percieved by her) and using snacks and non-social eating time to get other foods into you to support your growing baby. At 5 my son still struggles with wanting foods other kids are eating even if he has an allowable similar food...at 2 she has very little ability to control impulses like the desire to taste. I also wouldn't worry about how much she's eating unless weight is clearly an issue, which it doesn't sound like it. I'm not sure why you're limiting her fruit intake, but fruits are an incredible source for young children for a huge variety of nutrients, enzymes and such, and I totally agree that finding ways to get fats into her is important at this age...even if it's a coconut butter Popsicle (on a spoon, and the kind that still has flavor in it). Good luck!
post #23 of 38
Thread Starter 

Thanks Ginger. Her naturopath suggested we limit fruit intake because she's struggled with yeast overgrowth as part of her gut issues. So we allow one piece a day.

Anyway last night she had a new food as part of the elimination process (beets) and we all ate beets, amaranth and filet mignon together. She still begged for a bazillion servings but I'm sure this will be a long journey towards progress.

We might also consider doing testing to rule out Prader Willi syndrome, just in case -- although she does not have other hallmark signs of the disorder, like short stature, hypotonia during infancy, motor issues, small hands/feet, etc. So it's a long shot but worth ruling out.

post #24 of 38

Re: fats in the kids' diet - I'm not sure if anyone mentioned nut butters, as long as they are not on her elimination list.  I mix nut butters (sunflower seed butter, cashew, almond) into my DD's yogurt and also put a lot on her toast.  Nut butters seem easier on her tummy than eating plain nuts.  My friend makes a smoothie with a banana and nut butter, adding raw kale to it sometimes.  It's surprisingly tasty.
 

post #25 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveZip View Post

Re: fats in the kids' diet - I'm not sure if anyone mentioned nut butters, as long as they are not on her elimination list.  I mix nut butters (sunflower seed butter, cashew, almond) into my DD's yogurt and also put a lot on her toast.  Nut butters seem easier on her tummy than eating plain nuts.  My friend makes a smoothie with a banana and nut butter, adding raw kale to it sometimes.  It's surprisingly tasty.
 

 

So far they are on the elim list but we will be challenging almonds soon... hopefully it goes smoothly and we can add some almond butter!

post #26 of 38

I love beets too. Sounds like a lovely dinner. I would let her have more if she wants to!

 

As I said before, my dd has a huge appetite. Doctors that we've been to say she's doing fine, so no medical worries here, thank God. One doctor suggested that we limit milk to 400 ml /day (or something like that), including breastmilk, so I started offering water with meals and refusing when she asked for milk. Then I realized: what am I doing? Other parents that I know would do anything (including physically forcing their children) to get some milk into their kids, and here I am, refusing milk to my child. Then the milk obsession stopped. (I still offer only water between meals, so I won't spoil her appetite.)

 

Two days ago we had vegetable soup for dinner and dd gulped down two full bowls. Then I gave the kids chocolate for dessert and she refused her share. She refused dessert last night too. When they get what their bodies need, they will stop asking for food. I threw away my Food Pyramid recommended food quantities when ds was a toddler and wasn't eating half of what was recommended there.
 

It's not an easy journey, that's for sure. We still have our issues, but they are mostly mine.

post #27 of 38
Thread Starter 

I really like your attitude about it, it's very inspirational and makes a ton of sense. Thank you so much for sharing your perspectives, they help a lot! Once we clear any potential medical causes (and expand her diet a bit more) I think I'll feel a lot better and hopefully, so will she.

post #28 of 38
Thread Starter 

A couple updates here:

  • We got her labs back and they showed normal thyroid/endocrine function and normal (in fact, low end normal) blood sugars. All good news. The doctor is not on board for further testing but we might push just to cover the bases.
  • We saw a pediatric nutritionist last week (were lucky enough to get squeezed in for an appointment!) and they too felt fats were significantly lacking in her diet. So we've developed a plan to "challenge" more fatty foods in her elim diet first, in order to make sure those get added soon. The nutritionist agreed fats were crucial for feeling satiated. In the meantime, she basically said "let her eat if she wants to eat."

Hopefully we're on the right track!

post #29 of 38

I'm so glad to hear she's healthy! Some of us have just been blessed with good eaters :)
 

post #30 of 38

fantastic, you really sound like you are doing just what you need to and taking the smart steps, glad the tests showed a healthy girl

post #31 of 38
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys :) I just love her and want to make sure she is healthy and happy!

post #32 of 38

Hi,

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is a lack of sugar in her diet.  Yes, fat too, but if she is eating meat she is likely getting fat in her diet, although at two having some kind of milk or milk alternative(not the store bought milks) is going to be of importance and also... fruit.  Kids need almost the same quantity of sugar and fat in their diets.  Candida overgrowth comes from fat or other things blocking the body from absorbing the sugar in the blood properly.  So one piece of fruit a day is going to cause her to want more and more food for sure, and especially if she is not also eating grains which is another form of sugar for the brain/body.  The first three years the quantity of glucose to that massively developing brain is so important and while protein is extremely easy to get because it is contained in everything, and while there is at least a little fat in most things, at this age kids need a lot of fat and a lot of natural sugar.

 

Also, I couldn't tell from reading, but you said you don't eat much around her, I would try to eat meals together with her and eat the same foods she's eating in front of her.  That diet really doesn't sound that restrictive for a 2 year old, which is still very young... or even an adult, if you were eating seasonally that quantity/variety would change with the seasons and would actually be a very healthy and pleasurable way to eat, if you really think about it.  Anyway, the point is, I think she's getting enough variety and I don't think that is the problem, just that she needs a little more interaction during meals to understand the "food thing"  (I always see a little obsession, figuring things out with kids at this age) and that she needs a little more fat and fruit, more than likely.

 

I would look into a few different(and opposing) ideas on nutrition, allergies, children's health, candida, etc. 

post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 
Thanks. She is eating grains though... Millet, quinoa, amaranth, rice and buckwheat primarily (although buckwheat isn't really a grain I guess.)
post #34 of 38
Thread Starter 

Quick update here-- we have been limiting portions (except veggies) for a couple weeks now, and we have added a lot more fat to her diet. Although she no longer objects/ asks for more, I will say it does not appear to be working. Her energy levels are overall lower and she has actually lost 1.5 pounds which is a little alarming. She is also tending towards constipation lately, which for a child who has always been regular, is a red flag to me. Clearly she knows what she needs to eat, even if it's way more than the average 2 year old. I got Ellen S's book and we're going to give that a whirl. Thanks again to all you ladies for your helpful suggestions!

post #35 of 38

I have to admit it made me a little sad to read your update. I know what you go through, I also tried limiting portions and it had the opposite effect on dd, she gained 7 lbs in 3 months. As soon as I stopped limiting, her weight stabilized again.

 

On the positive side, we also had a check-up yesterday and the doctor seemed very unconcerned about dd's weight.

But I know it's hard not to worry.

 

I remember a quote from ES's book that almost made me cry:

 

"Even your large child is entitled to depend on you to do your feeding jobs and
then to be trusted to do her eating—and growing—jobs. Even
your large child is entitled to go to the table hungry, eat until
she is satisfied, and then stop, knowing another meal or snack
is coming and she can do it again. Even your large child is entitled
to be unconscious and unconcerned about it all, free from
worry about eating, moving, and weight."
 

post #36 of 38
Thread Starter 
The nutritionist suggested that if it were true hunger, she'd eat veggies till she was full. It doesn't seem like its working. I was never worried about her weight where it was (more like I was worried about where it might go) but now, it's downright low in my opinion... 27 pounds but nearly 36 inches tall. Not underweight but she's clearly feeling a little low energy. Time to fix it. I have faith we will find the balance.
post #37 of 38

Hmm.  Did you try increasing fats without limiting portion sizes?  I don't really buy the "she'll eat veggies until she's full" idea.  Since you're not particularly concerned about her weight, isn't it okay for her to eat whatever she wants to satisfy "true" hunger? 

post #38 of 38
Thread Starter 
Well like I said, that's next for us (following Ellen S's method). The advice we received doesn't appear to be working for her metabolism. And until I weighed her, here I was scratching my head thinking, Why does she not want to run and play lately? Duh. Mommy fail greensad.gif
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