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A Saner TTC: Harvest Moon

post #1 of 164
Thread Starter 

Hello all and welcome!

The original "Sane 2ww" thread was started by zenquaker and you can find it here: original thread. This is a continuation of the "Sane 2ww" thread and we felt "A Saner TTC" was a natural evolution. We will start a new thread each new moon and name it for the upcoming full moon.

 

Here's the gist of the original thread: this is a space to re-conceive the 2ww as a time of waiting and contemplation. Although we don't judge those who wish to poas frequently, symptom-spot, or do chart analysis, this a space set apart from that activity. We share our thoughts about other ways to approach the 2ww and all parts of our cycles. We encourage each other to feel our feelings fully and to greet all possible outcomes with openness.

 

We hope you'll join us!

post #2 of 164
Thread Starter 

Here we are, a new moon, another month going by, seasons changing as we are heading into fall.

Months of waiting: waiting to O, waiting to know, always waiting though.

What does it meant to take a break from TTC? I feel like I'm on a break simply because I've given up on the possibility of conceiving naturally and I haven't started taking any medication yet. So this month I'm feeling pretty detached from the whole TTC experience...

And there is a practice of non-attachment in zen, but being detached feels different. Maybe, I might just be rambling.

post #3 of 164

Hi dakipode - I don't know what taking a break looks like (aside from completely abstaining from sex)!

 

Question for you: what are you feeling detached from, specifically? I feel for you, in that if we are not pregnant by the end of the year, DH and I are going to have the reassessment talk - fertility interventions, meds, adoption, nothing?? I actually feel quite anxious about even having to make a decision since honestly, I just want it to happen THIS way (I can see my child self tantrumming, "BUT I WANT IT THISSSSSS WAY!"). So, even though I'm asking you what you specifically feel detached from, I can completely understand not feeling attached when making a change that you didn't necessarily want to have to make.

 

AFM: My period has pretty much shown its face today and I imagine it will fully start tomorrow. There is always a part of me that's like, "Wait, it could just be late implantation spotting or maybe I'll be that one woman that has a tiny period..." but I have a good feeling it's a no go this time. I am pissed. And sad. And feeling a little bit sorry for myself. I don't know of anyone in real life who is going through this. And, it's not something I like to share about, so I kind of feel like I'm in my own little hell sometimes and no one else can get it. The good news is that since starting acupuncture, my periods have become really nice. Good blood quality, longer luteal phase, not as intense. But there's a part of me that thinks, "Then why isn't it happening still? If all things are lovely in there, why isn't it working??" But then I just focus on what is working and how that's a step in the right direction.

post #4 of 164

I am so glad to see this thread!  I really need it!

 

Dakipode, I can imagine you feeling detached as you wait to move onto a new way of TTC.  I am not sure how to find the non-attached vs detached.  Hmmmm.

 

Happy2bamama, I am sorry for your struggles.  I don't have too many IRL friends who are going through it either.  I know a few but I don't see them IRL regularly so it's hard.  It does often feel like a thing we go through alone.  I like the idea of focusing on what IS working.

 

AFM: I so need help figuring out how to approach things from a saner perspective.  I am letting msyelf get anxious and angry.  I lost a pregnancy in  June at 11 weeks (baby only measuring 7 weeks so it was a missed m/c).  We were told to wait two cycles before TTC again during which I had very clear O signs (and I have always had VERY clear O signs).  And then since we started TTC again I have had no clear O signs.  In the past we have always gotten pregnant easily (3 pregnancies total with two of them ending in losses) but last month we tried and nothing.  I am not sure I even O'd since I had no signs.  Now I am right at O time again (CD12) with no signs AGAIN.  My DH also has trouble with frequent BDing and so we had essentially tried on CD8 and then last night CD11 which he almost didn't maange.  So that is going to end up being it for this cycle.  I don't know if I have O'd or will.  It is making me sad and crazy.

 

I would love any advice on how to take a deep breath and get more zen!

post #5 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post

 

Question for you: what are you feeling detached from, specifically? I feel for you, in that if we are not pregnant by the end of the year, DH and I are going to have the reassessment talk - fertility interventions, meds, adoption, nothing?? I actually feel quite anxious about even having to make a decision since honestly, I just want it to happen THIS way (I can see my child self tantrumming, "BUT I WANT IT THISSSSSS WAY!"). So, even though I'm asking you what you specifically feel detached from, I can completely understand not feeling attached when making a change that you didn't necessarily want to have to make.

 

AFM: My period has pretty much shown its face today and I imagine it will fully start tomorrow. There is always a part of me that's like, "Wait, it could just be late implantation spotting or maybe I'll be that one woman that has a tiny period..." but I have a good feeling it's a no go this time. I am pissed. And sad. And feeling a little bit sorry for myself. I don't know of anyone in real life who is going through this. And, it's not something I like to share about, so I kind of feel like I'm in my own little hell sometimes and no one else can get it. The good news is that since starting acupuncture, my periods have become really nice. Good blood quality, longer luteal phase, not as intense. But there's a part of me that thinks, "Then why isn't it happening still? If all things are lovely in there, why isn't it working??" But then I just focus on what is working and how that's a step in the right direction.

I am so were you are happy2bamama. In fact that's why I haven't posted here in awhile. I have really lost all things peaceful. I'm anxious and angry and a bit resentful at DH for waiting to ttc for so long. (10 years!)  After 16 months of ttc I had a chemical loss in July.  We too will be doing the reassessment thing at the start of the new year. I want it my way damn it........and I don't want to have to grieve the loss of privacy and intervention on top of infertility. I guess I don't have anything positive to contribute to the thread right now, lol.  Just letting you all know I'm here :)

post #6 of 164
Thread Starter 

beingmommy, welcome! Sorry to hear about your recent m/c. While I don't share that experience I can relate to the feelings of anxiousness and anger. This whole TTC gets me so up and down and I think the recent detachment is my mind's way of trying to deal with all of it.

 

JustJenny, I struggle periodically with feeling resentful as well. I try to tell myself, rationally, that there is no way that starting earlier would've guaranteed earlier success but I do wonder about it. At the same time I want to be careful of not falling prey to that emotion too often. I need to remind myself that I am in a partnership and delaying TTC was a joint decision, even though I may regret it at times.

 

happy2b, glad to see you here. It does feel a bit lonely, doesn't it, when your real life friends can't relate. My friends in town either don't have kids, got pregnant accidentally or on the first try. I feel bitter sometimes when my close friend insists that I'm being overly dramatic about the whole thing "as if my life depended on it". And they don't get it, some people just can't relate to the intensity of wanting to be a mother. Where does that come from anyway, that urge? I'm sure part of it is biology but somewhere along the way I think I started believing/attaching some other meaning to motherhood and that without it I could never be complete.

I am curious to hear more about the acupuncture. Did you find someone who specializes in fertility treatments? How long did it take for you to start noticing the changes? How often do you go etc.?

 

AFM: I hate thinking of myself as someone who waits for things to happen but that sure is what this whole TTC experience feels like, no control whatsoever. Maybe I tell myself I'm detached and don't care just so I don't have to feel so disappointed at the end of this month. Sort of a: "Of course nothing happened this month, did you expect anything else" preparation? Where/how do you find the balance between apathy, non-attachment and staying hopeful and open to the possibility? That is what I struggle with every month.

post #7 of 164

This sounds great!  I'm in.

 

We're working on TTC #2 and just completed the first month of trying and unfortunately it didn't work out.  Even though it's a bummer, I really haven't been feeling well for the last 3 weeks and I'm glad to have some extra time to try to figure out what's going on with me.  Along with figuring out how to get well, I want to spend this time reevaluating my diet and exercise (or non existence of it) and overall life wholeness like hobbies, social time, relaxation, balancing my role as a mom of a toddler with my own identity....things like that.  I struggle with depression on and off throughout my life, and since moving to a new town a few months ago....it seems to have crept back up, to the point where I need to do something about it.  ...which I'm having a hard time accepting.

 

(also, what is "AFM"?)

post #8 of 164
Thread Starter 

GuavaGirl, welcome! Love the name! AFM = as for myself. Yes, IDENTITY... Isn't that why TTC drives us all so nuts? Because we have so much of our perceived identity tied up in this?

post #9 of 164

 Sort of a: "Of course nothing happened this month, did you expect anything else" preparation? Where/how do you find the balance between apathy, non-attachment and staying hopeful and open to the possibility? That is what I struggle with every month.

 Dakipode, I feel this too.  I want to be open and positive and manifest my dreams but the pain of disappointment is so raw.   I wish I knew how to do it.

 

GuavaGirl, I've struggled with depression too, off and on.  Especially the last few years.  It's very hard.  And balancing self and babies is such a hard task.  I haven't figured it out yet.

 

 

I started seeing a therapist after my recent loss and that has helped a bit. She is very into positive psychology so really working on gratitude and finding hope, postivity and so on. My husband and I started doing gratitude journals together every evening. We write down three things each day that we are grateful for and share. It's been really nice. I think it is helping in a subtle way.

 

But I still feel a lot of self-pity and anger around this TTC. My DS has autism and it's been a rough past few years. We were actually sure we would not have another as DS needed so much attention.  Then he started doing better late last year and we started hoping and then trying earlier this year. But I keep feeling like the universe hates us and only wants us to struggle. So silly. I want to have more faith in everything.

 

I will also be 40 next month so I feel a time pressure, though I have been working on that I bit and feel better about than before.

post #10 of 164

dakipode - Thank you for starting this up again for the new month!  I went to see the social worker who works with my RE, and she said taking a break is one thing we can control.  So I think breaks can be good for the soul.  Sometimes you need to step back for a while.  I hope the rest brings you some peace before you dive into the world of medications and such.  I have noticed I am not as aware of cycle days anymore.  I think that is one way I can step back and not be so consumed. 

 

My month break is over.  For me a break is truly a break because I have to pay for my sperm.  I am waiting to O right now.  I feel like this is more stressful for me than the TWW sometimes because I want to make sure I do everything right and we get the timing as close to perfect as possible.  Although, it has been pretty perfect in the past and still not worked.  I have been feeling pretty stressed lately.  I am going to be working with some new people at work and the expectations on me will be higher.  But I will also be making more money, so that is good.  I am moving to a different cubicle this week which might work out great because I have a RE appointment the same day and it will be easy to sneak out for a few hours while my computer and phone are disconnected.  I have also just been feeling really sad and crying more easily.  My wife has been feeling sad too.  The process is wearing on us and we are trying to stay positive and faithful.  Keeping the faith is always a struggle.  I signed up for a singing class to help distract me and release some tension.  We do some relaxation and breath work before we sing and we are supposed to practice at home, so that's one more thing I can do to relax. 

 

I can relate to not having friends who understand.  None of my friends are tying to have kids, and none of my friends in the area have children.  My sisters all have children.  My younger sisters conceived all of their children the first month they tried.  One had a miscarriage, but she conceived the next month she tried after that.  My older sister took longer because she was older and has always had irregular cycles, but she didn't seek out treatments.  My mom is understanding, but she also did not have any trouble getting pregnant.  I think it's almost better to have "virtual" friends to talk to about all this because we aren't friends in real life.  The detachment makes it easier to put it all out there.  You all care, but you aren't personally invested in my life.  Does that make sense?

post #11 of 164
Thread Starter 

PokeyAC, good to see you too! I honestly don't know if I can find peace, it's a continuous quest and every now and again I get a glimpse of what it could be like.

I agree that there is a certain level of surrender during 2ww, because there is nothing left to do but hope.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you got a promotion. Congrats!

I sort of get your virtual friends comment. The anonymity allows me to open up and speak so frankly.

 

beingmommy, your comment about having faith struck me. I think one of the key issues for me is that I don't have faith in myself, i.e. I don't believe that I could be fine if it never happened and that's why it feels like such a life and death issue. My mind tells me that of course I would be ok, I would make do, get through life and be fulfilled even if I never got to be a mommy, but my heart panics at the thought...

post #12 of 164

Thanks for starting this thread! I am part of a few TTC threads, but as we are waiting a few months before TTC (although, we have had a couple of "you're probably not fertile, right?" sessions w/o BC), I am feeling sooo impatient to get started. Which is silly, because I have two DDs, ages 3 and 1, and I work full-time, we recently moved and our house needs a lot of renos, so I should be satisfied with my family, my life, but I just want to be a mommy again! My DH doesn't get it. He keeps saying we were so lucky to have two healthy pregnancies/babies, why tempt fate? Which makes me feel like if anything ever does go wrong, it will be my fault for wanting more. I can't help it. I want a big family (4 kids), because I have practically no family right now. I always dream about large family get-togethers at holiday times. My grandmother and mother both struggled with infertility, so I have no aunts or uncles, cousins, etc. Just one brother and we are not close.

 

I am not super into charting or temping or poas-ing (not to judge anyone who does!), although I do keep track of my cycle length and CM, just because when we do conceive I need to call the midwife office as soon as I poas. That's how quickly they are booked up. But once I poas and get a BFP, that's it for me. I don't keep testing or obssessing.

 

So far, my DH is on board for #3, sometime next year when we finish getting our ground floor reno'd. I am toying with the idea of trying supplements to encourage strong ovulation and maybe getting twins. Not sure how realistic this is, lol, but if I could have twins this time around, I think we would be done. Anyway, all this to say that I am doing my best to feel zen about TTC in the near future and am trying to feel the fullness of my life as it is, not as I would necessarily like to have it.

 

It's nice to meet everyone! wave.gif

post #13 of 164

Hi pokeyAC, I love the idea of singing to help relax.  It would be uplifting too.  I waas thinking about finding some fun things to do to distract myself during all the waiting times.  Like learn a new craft or find an engrossing book series.  Fingers crossed for you in your Waiting to O!

 

Dakipode, it IS so hard.  The having faith part.  I am so lucky to already have one beautiful child.  Sometimes I feel bad, like why do I want another so badly.  Isn't he enough?  But the drive for two is huge for me for some reason.  I think it's juse how I had always envisioned my life as a mom.   I feel desperately sad to think it might never happen.  But I am not sure yet how one lets go of those visions if you have to.  I guess it would be a day by day process if that time came.

 

Lidamama, hi!  Trying to feel the fulness of your life as it is - I like that.  I am going to try that too.

post #14 of 164
Hello all. Can I join? I had 2 healthy children no problems and then lots of problems in seeking our third. I'm not ready to completely give up, but I am slowly deciding to focus on what I have instead of what I don't. KWIM? Happy2bamama and everyone else, I totally feel my inner toddler throwing a tantrum about how "this is NOT how I wanted things to go!!!!!!" But, what are you going to do?

So, in my efforts to accept where I stand right now, I'm planning vacations and (trying) not to think about how pregnant I will be or where in my cycle I'll be if, if , if. It's always an IF. Trying to get myself to consider a trip to Yellowstone with the kids for next June. (But, if we get pregnant this cycle, the bean would be due in June. Quiet! LOL)
post #15 of 164

Awww, huge hugs, Xerxella, I have been thinking of you.  I am always doing that too, thinking of the future in terms of where'd I'll be IF I get pregnant this cycle. 

 

I do wonder how to quiet all the fussing my head does around it.  I guess distraction is good.  Probably meditation too. 

post #16 of 164

Hi all! This thread blew up the past couple of days!

 

Something that I am noticing and feeling is that the attachment, non-attachment, doing and not doing all changes on a day to day basis. I think it's unrealistic for us to think in overall terms, such as, "If I could just be zen about this whole thing" or "I have to always take my vitamins and herbs." That is WAY too much pressure! I have come to understand that I will have moments of zen-ness, but not months of zen-ness. Days where I take my stuff and days where I don't. It's just not possible to do everything all the time and be zen about it. Nothing lasts continually (even the good feelings).

 

When AF showed a few days ago, I was sad and frustrated and felt hopeless and I saw DH and I having the fertility options talks at the end of the year. But today, I already feel more hopeful - in fact, I have this strange sense of feeling closer to it. Like when you're playing a dice game and someone keeps rolling a seven, the longer they keep rolling a seven, the more you know that the odds are getting greater and greater that they WON'T roll a seven again. I guess I am feeling like we can't possibly roll a seven again. Even though I know it is possible, today I feel like the odds of us conceiving keep getting greater. But this just goes to show you - tomorrow I may feel completely differently. I may run into yet another newly pregnant friend or have someone ask me if we're "one and done" or have my mom ask if I could donate some baby things to a friend and not know what to say and then feel sad again. I've realized that my connectedness to this process depends on many things and few of which I can control. So, rather than try to make myself be any one way, I am going to embrace feeling all different ways - even the messy ways.

 

This last month, I was feeling like going to acupuncture was a bit of a chore, so even though my inner judge was telling me that I was lowering my odds if I canceled some of my appointments, I did it anyway. I want to be true to me (not my inner judge). And I found myself wanting to make some sort of rule, like, "I only do acupuncture once a week now," but when I started bleeding this month, my outlook changed and I set up appointments to go twice a week again because it no longer felt like a chore. It shifts! And the shifting doesn't mean I am wacked out or unstable or can't get a grip on this, it means that I am doing whatever I need to do to navigate this rocky path.

 

dakipode - I have been doing acupuncture for about 3 months. I have a neighbor who owns a clinic and although it's not specifically a fertility clinic, she is trained in that and works with it a lot. She is also the mom of two kids (who she got pregnant with on the first try both times). I usually go twice a week and this last cycle, I didn't schedule any appointments during my period so that I could have a nice break from doing (and my body is more sensitive to the needles when I'm on my period - talk about insult to injury!). I go to a place that does community acupuncture, so everyone is one big room with little areas to themselves during their treatment. This keeps the cost down - I only pay $25 per treatment. I pretty much immediately noticed a difference. My period has really changed. TMI alert: I used to have a short luteal phase and my periods started with days of brown spotting and then my flow tended to be dark with clots. Now, I have moved my luteal phase back to where it should be (most cycles - last cycle was kinda wonky), I have way less clots, less pre-spotting and the blood coming out of me is bright red and healthy looking. I also used to have one or two days of my period where I was just dead to the world. And now it's evened out so that I am not down for the count one or two days. It feels more balanced and manageable. And my digestion is amazing! But the pitfall of this is that it can easily lead one to think that they will get pregnant because everything is really healthy in there and it can make the not getting pregnant more frustrating. But it is making me happier and healthier overall, so I'll take it!

post #17 of 164

Wow, I am glad I read this thread.  I have been TTC#2 since March 2011.  I had a m/c in April 2012.  I am 38 and getting to a point where I feel I should just bury and mourn the idea of having a second child.  Each month I get very crying upset, probably since the mc was so recent.  I feel alone in this battle against myself.  I have put everything on hold, from buying clothing for my post baby #1 body to getting involved with other moms since I don't want to get sick from other kids while I am pregnant.  Ours is a painful journey that takes up more of our days and nights than it should.  I don't think that is healthy, so I think taking a break from actively TTC is a good idea.  Thing is, I may enjoy the break so much that I don't come back from it. 

Thanks for listening.

post #18 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidamama84 View Post

Which makes me feel like if anything ever does go wrong, it will be my fault for wanting more.

 

to feel the fullness of my life as it is, not as I would necessarily like to have it.

Wow, yes, that guilt. Why do we put that pressure on ourselves?

I very much appreciate the sentiment as you put it: the fullness of life as it is. I see it as being similar to the gratitude practice, something to help you acknowledge the things you have rather than putting the emphasis on what you don't have. Thanks for that insight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beingmommy View Post

 

Like learn a new craft or find an engrossing book series.

 

What are you working on craftwise or bookwise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post

So, in my efforts to accept where I stand right now, I'm planning vacations and (trying) not to think about how pregnant I will be or where in my cycle I'll be if, if , if. It's always an IF. Trying to get myself to consider a trip to Yellowstone with the kids for next June. (But, if we get pregnant this cycle, the bean would be due in June. Quiet! LOL)

Welcome! I'm so with you on the whole planning thing. This year I've definitely put some things on hold because we're TTC. Now I'm feeling like I missed out... There was a quote circulating on Facebook ascribed to Paulo Coehlo: "Life has many ways of testing a person's will, either by having nothing happen at all or by having everything happen all at once." In that spirit should I then start other projects so that everything can happen all at once and I will get pregnant? I do recognize that I can't just put my life on hold anymore. There is being prepared and being responsible and then there's living in fear, for lack of a better word. I'm done with the latter and I'm making plans for March 2013.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2bamama View Post

Something that I am noticing and feeling is that the attachment, non-attachment, doing and not doing all changes on a day to day basis. I think it's unrealistic for us to think in overall terms, such as, "If I could just be zen about this whole thing" or "I have to always take my vitamins and herbs." That is WAY too much pressure! I have come to understand that I will have moments of zen-ness, but not months of zen-ness. Days where I take my stuff and days where I don't. It's just not possible to do everything all the time and be zen about it. Nothing lasts continually (even the good feelings).

 

Like when you're playing a dice game and someone keeps rolling a seven, the longer they keep rolling a seven, the more you know that the odds are getting greater and greater that they WON'T roll a seven again. I guess I am feeling like we can't possibly roll a seven again.

Yes to the day to day feeling. I don't think zen is a state that I will ever attain and sustain...

So funny about the odds comment but I'm totally on the same page: it must happen some time right? Aren't we overdue for our bit of luck?

I may look into acupuncture. DH and I have had our specialist appt but we haven't seriously discussed how we will move forward. I'm all for medication and concentrated sperm injections but I would be ok with doing anything that could help, even if it was more subtle.

 

jjclifton, welcome! I hope you can find some peace here.

post #19 of 164

Can I join? I think this is just the place I need :-)

 

We are really NTNP right now - got my first PPAF back in August (DD will be 11 mos this weekend). I miss the days of being like, "Oh, I'm late. Hmmmm, I guess I'll get a test." Now that I know my body so much better, it's hard to fight the urge to know as. soon. as. possible. But really, what difference does it make (except for the mamas who have medical conditions where the days do make a difference, of course!), other than the added stress, the daily testing, the disappointment at BFNs, etc. 

 

I just want to go with it and enjoy life for what it is *today*, kwim? I want to value everything in my life right now, and not worry about all the what ifs - just deal with them when they become facts. 

 

So, I thought if I joined, I could use this thread to hold myself accountable to those goals :-) I *think* I am 7dpo today, but don't really know, as it's my first cycle, like I said. So, I'm going to wait until next week, Wednesday at least, to test, because I *think* I expect AF next Tuesday. I'm going to actually try to wait until that weekend to test. So every day before then, I'll just remember this group when I feel like POAS, to remind myself to chill out :-) 

post #20 of 164

Welcome klemomma!  I hope the next 2 weeks are totally chill for you!  There are so many what if's that you could drive yourself crazy trying to worry about all of them.  It's not worth it, but it's hard to avoid sometimes.

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