Open to adopting this unborn to another mama/family...what is possible? - Page 3

[pattimomma]

Originally Posted by teale 

No  one is judging when they say that you may not want to look at open adoption. The ideal that you are describing, is one that as a member of the so-called open adoption world, does not exist. You should look at the laws in your state because many open adoption agreements are not legally enforcable, so you could wind up with adoptive families who think you are batsh!t crazy for what you are suggesting, but desire that baby, and decide to pull the rug out within 2 years of adoption. It happens more than you think. 

Adoption is not rainbows and butterflies. Separating yourself from your child is traumatic, especially in the situation you are describing too. I'm a birthmother 10 years out and I have PTSD, anxiety issues and have to deal with the emotional ramificaitons of my adoption still. It's a never ending, not at all as easy as you are describing it, process. 

My suggestion? Wait until you are further along. Feel it out then. Read about adoption from all perspectives, the good, the bad and the  ugly before creating this, from my experience, unrealistic ideal of adoption. Adoption is tough, it's a hard road, and it's not at all as it's perceived in our society. It's grueling, and heartbreaking, it's traumatic- and as a Mama who is attachment based, youshould know in all cases, the best place for the baby is with his or her mother. Always. 

Good luck to you, but don't mistake real life experiences as judgment. Consider them more of a warning- and our voices are one of many who have been slighted by the adoption system. 

I am a birth mother (13 yrs ago this Nov) also. I could have written the exact post that Teale wrote. The PTSD is very real.

Regarding your decision: you said "I have more confidence that we can adequately provide for a fifth child than my husband does" and " if the 'right fit' adoptive-family were not to play out, we would accept it as 'a sign' that we are meant to parent this one, also." That sounds like you're not 100% on board with adopting this child out. I highly suggest you research the options and firmly decide on your plan before seeking out adoptive parents. It would not be fair to adoptive parents to lead them on when you're not certain you want to make an adoption plan for this child.

Lastly, remember that you don't have to make this decision during pregnancy. Although many people do the adoption at birth, for you it might make sense to adopt your child out at age 6 months or so. It's up to you; there are lots of options.

From what I read, I agree with Marsupial mama that you aren't 100% on board with adoption. If that's the case I don't think you should place this child. However, I would suggest Catholic Social Services open adoption if you want to explore it a little more. I am an atheist so I have no bias with that suggestion. You may also want to contact someone at The Farm in TN. They may have some suggestions such as fostering the baby in their community while you decide what to do.

Additionally, I am a geologist. I have studied past and current climate change extensively. My current research projects include how to mitigate GHG effects on the atmosphere and the influence of climate change on the evolution of Hominins in East Africa. If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop quoting articles in Rolling Stone. The climate is changing. This is not disputed. However I think you may not be quite accurate with the timescale or the predicted impact. Also our species is great at adaptation.

[mamatochubchub]

One point you make is confusing to me. You say you believe climate change will lead to famine and the like in the next 10-15 years. With that belief logic would follow that you would stay in your house, raise your chickens, and hold down a job in the meantime, keeping your donkeys and carts at the ready. That way you won't have a more difficult lifestyle before need be. 

It would make no sense at all to stay in my house and try to hold down a job... a job?  The system of jobs and money is absolutely and purely doomed.  You think it sounds extreme, but tell me how you imagine it will work, please...after you have taken a pinch of your time to read the latest climate news. 

Though we are continuing to use the home as a home-base for now...when you begin to calculate the rapid changes taking effect because of positive feedback loops in our ecosystem, within the next 30 years it looks probable that average summer highs here will be in the range of 120 to 130 degrees and droughts which will pale this years drought to a memory of a sweet summer.  We are looking at unlivable conditions.  Mass food and water scarcity.  Rampant death. 

Someone has to do something.  In fact, it would seem appropriate that anyone who cares about her children, would do anything she could fathom...that she feels might most effectively address the impending crisis.  We need passionate, parallel streams of action if there is to be a chance of rescuing our children.  All who advise that I settle down and straighten up, get normal, are just not getting it:  When you are dealing with a life or death emergency, you set aside your comforts, your sentimental notions, your cares for what is "socially acceptable".  Your prior hobbies and interests become memories, unless they are of use to your purpose.  You do things you never thought you would do.  You summon bravery you never expected to need.  And much to one's discouragement...you hear the masses of sheep chanting that you are lost.  "Come back to the herd!!" 

We will all die together.  Much sooner than we thought.  Please stop trying to contradict me, step around the propaganda that is created by the coal,oil, gas industries, click some links to modern climate science research and form your own *informed* opinion.   

[fruitfulmomma]

The Farm is a great suggestion. They used to have a foster program for teen/young moms who weren't sure they were going to parent but weren't ready to sign the adoption papers. They weren't able to continue it as a community but they might be able to help you find a family who is interested in what you are presenting here.

[elus0814]

Please take a minute to read the rest of my post and not simply focus on one paragraph that allows you back up on your soapbox. You asked for advice. The ladies here are trying to give you advice.

Yes, you should get a job. Plain and simple. We do not live in the world you imagine. We live in the real world and in the real world you are mooching off the work of others so you can have time to do what you feel like doing. We even have a word for it - fraud. 

What do your kids think about all this nomadic, donkey training, cart living lifestyle you want for them? Do they know that 99+% of everyone (in including climate scientists) don't share your ideas, at least not to the extreme you take them? Do they attend school? If not are they exposed to ideas other than your own? There are a lot of red flags here and I'm not the only one to see them

[mamatochubchub]

Originally Posted by pattimomma 

I am a birth mother (13 yrs ago this Nov) also. I could have written the exact post that Teale wrote. The PTSD is very real.

From what I read, I agree with Marsupial mama that you aren't 100% on board with adoption. If that's the case I don't think you should place this child. However, I would suggest Catholic Social Services open adoption if you want to explore it a little more. I am an atheist so I have no bias with that suggestion. You may also want to contact someone at The Farm in TN. They may have some suggestions such as fostering the baby in their community while you decide what to do.

Additionally, I am a geologist. I have studied past and current climate change extensively. My current research projects include how to mitigate GHG effects on the atmosphere and the influence of climate change on the evolution of Hominins in East Africa. If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop quoting articles in Rolling Stone. The climate is changing. This is not disputed. However I think you may not be quite accurate with the timescale or the predicted impact. Also our species is great at adaptation.

Yes, I read and appreciated what Teale wrote. 

I agree that I am not 100% on board with adoption.  That is, it would depend on the compatibility of the adoptive family with ours whether or not we would be 100% decided. 

I appreciated your suggestion about the catholic social services.  I also, with giggles, appreciate your suggestion about The Farm...I lived there, myself in 2003-2004, I have friends there.  I don't remember them as still taking babies (as they did back in the hay-day), but, of course, it would make sense to ask.  We are really looking for a mother or family who ache to be parents...less so than a baby storage unit.  We are offering a natural/indigenous adoption, a village deciding to gift an infertile family with a child from an overly fertile mother, rather than adoption-out-of-necessity.  But there could be such a family at The Farm, or they may be in contact with some.  God knows they are more open-minded than the majority of respondents to this thread.

"If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop quoting articles in Rolling Stone."

You must acknowledge that I haven't quoted the rolling stone article even one single time in this thread.  Or, more likely, it seems you have not read the article yourself, which necessarily disqualifies you from discrediting it.  Are you not in alignment with the mass of current climate research on which the website www.350.org , is founded? 

For that matter, if you have some good news for me about mitigating feedback loops previously-not-understood, or if you are, yourself, aware of even-newer timelines which would offer some assurance for myself and the millions of other urgently concerned climate activist, please share.  I would 100% prefer to go back to my life as it was...when I thought I would get to help raise my grandchildren..even great-grandchildren some day, and when I thought my young children would inherit the same planet that I did, myself. 

Do you think the climate activists should all "go home"?  I'm pretty sure that is how people will read your post.   

You say that you think I *may* not be *quite* accurate the timescale projections I am offering.  No-one can know that their projections are accurate.  That is not the virtue of these projection.  The projections offer us a suggested range of possibility, based on data (pieces of information...not the whole picture).  If the current climate science says that extreme drought and high temperatures are coming to your home town in 30, 60, or  90 years, pending this or that variable...does it make sense to begin planning for the worst?  Especially when you understand the 30 year lag before the carbon emissions act as greenhouse gasses, and when you see that "progressive" mothers at mothering.com, even, are trying to shush the relatively few geese who honk in alarm? 

In only makes sense to plan for the worst, because that is exactly where the actions of our society are taking us.  The projections for longer timescales are written in the hopes that humans would have made or will make drastic cuts to emissions...much more drastic than are even being discussed in our governments.  Until the behaviors change, we can set aside the hopeful projections.

[mamatochubchub]

Originally Posted by elus0814 

Please take a minute to read the rest of my post and not simply focus on one paragraph that allows you back up on your soapbox. You asked for advice. The ladies here are trying to give you advice.

Yes, you should get a job. Plain and simple. We do not live in the world you imagine. We live in the real world and in the real world you are mooching off the work of others so you can have time to do what you feel like doing. We even have a word for it - fraud. 

What do your kids think about all this nomadic, donkey training, cart living lifestyle you want for them? Do they know that 99+% of everyone (in including climate scientists) don't share your ideas, at least not to the extreme you take them? Do they attend school? If not are they exposed to ideas other than your own? There are a lot of red flags here and I'm not the only one to see them

Elus I have never asked for your advice about my life-choices.  I have asked explicitly for advice about the adoption process...possibilities, suggestions, and advice relating to the possible adoption of the child I am carrying. 

My children are doing excellently.  Everything I do, I do for them, and they know it.  Some are in school, some are homeschooling, we are the most open-minded type of educators I have known, and encourage our children to form their own opinion in all cases. 

You slather me with projections of insanity, but what do you hope to gain by it?  Clearly you do not seek to understand me.  Why are you reading and haunting my thread?  Scoot. 

Moderators!  Help a sistah out!

[mamatochubchub]

Oh yea, I was going to scoot, too.  Scootin. 

*Thank You Very Much for the handful of thoughtful and relevant responses!  I've read'em and I'm digesting them as I continue on my path of searching for the next-best-step for my family and unborn child*

Love!

[elus0814]

Too much to handle, huh? Best of luck to you and your children.

[pattimomma]

Originally Posted by mamatochubchub 

I think if you are not prepared to parent this vulnerable human, created without forethought despite your worldview of impending catastrophe, then you likely should find a great adoption agency and begin pursuing the finding of a compatible minded pre-adoptive family unit as quickly as possible.

For what is may be worth to you, or others reading this thread, we did not create this child in the midst of our understanding of current climate science.  Rather, when I was five or six weeks pregnant, I read Bill McKibben's article http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/global-warmings-terrifying-new-math-20120719 .  That was the first time that I began to grasp the urgent new timelines which are being presented by the climate scientists.  Since that time, my family has been reading everything we can find on the subject, deepening our understanding.  All the while, the debate rolled along about whether or not we "should" abort.  We didn't want an abortion, we didn't feel that we could, with absolute clarity, end the early life of this being who has been so determined to join us, humanity, on this side of physical form.  Our default plan is that we will parent this child, joyfully, as I have said...yet, we feel also that we may be carrying this child for another joyful family, and in that case, it is my duty to seek them out, or at least make it known that this baby is coming...so that the mother or family might seek out us.  

"If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop quoting articles in Rolling Stone."

You must acknowledge that I haven't quoted the rolling stone article even one single time in this thread. Ok, you didn't quote it but you referenced it. Scientists read peer reviewed journal articles not summaries of them written by journalists at magazines. If you reference peer reviewed journal articles people will be more likely to listen to you. You are setting yourself up for failure by using mainstream media as your reference. when you see that "progressive" mothers at mothering.com, even, are trying to shush the relatively few geese who honk in alarm? I'm not trying to shush you, I am trying to tell you to consider your approach. Some people are going to say 'oh she is referencing that liberal magazine' and they aren't going to hear your message. You need to use a bipartisian approach. You can't talk to people in coal country the same way you talk to people in San Francisco. You need to unite people with regard to your cause, not divide them.

Originally Posted by mamatochubchub 

Yes, I read and appreciated what Teale wrote. 

I agree that I am not 100% on board with adoption.  That is, it would depend on the compatibility of the adoptive family with ours whether or not we would be 100% decided. 

I appreciated your suggestion about the catholic social services.  I also, with giggles, appreciate your suggestion about The Farm...I lived there, myself in 2003-2004, I have friends there.  I don't remember them as still taking babies (as they did back in the hay-day), but, of course, it would make sense to ask.  We are really looking for a mother or family who ache to be parents...less so than a baby storage unit.  We are offering a natural/indigenous adoption, a village deciding to gift an infertile family with a child from an overly fertile mother, rather than adoption-out-of-necessity.  But there could be such a family at The Farm, or they may be in contact with some.  God knows they are more open-minded than the majority of respondents to this thread.

"If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop quoting articles in Rolling Stone."

You must acknowledge that I haven't quoted the rolling stone article even one single time in this thread.  Or, more likely, it seems you have not read the article yourself, which necessarily disqualifies you from discrediting it.  Are you not in alignment with the mass of current climate research on which the website www.350.org , is founded? 

For that matter, if you have some good news for me about mitigating feedback loops previously-not-understood, or if you are, yourself, aware of even-newer timelines which would offer some assurance for myself and the millions of other urgently concerned climate activist, please share.  I would 100% prefer to go back to my life as it was...when I thought I would get to help raise my grandchildren..even great-grandchildren some day, and when I thought my young children would inherit the same planet that I did, myself. 

Do you think the climate activists should all "go home"?  I'm pretty sure that is how people will read your post.   

You say that you think I *may* not be *quite* accurate the timescale projections I am offering.  No-one can know that their projections are accurate.  That is not the virtue of these projection.  The projections offer us a suggested range of possibility, based on data (pieces of information...not the whole picture).  If the current climate science says that extreme drought and high temperatures are coming to your home town in 30, 60, or  90 years, pending this or that variable...does it make sense to begin planning for the worst?  Especially when you understand the 30 year lag before the carbon emissions act as greenhouse gasses, and when you see that "progressive" mothers at mothering.com, even, are trying to shush the relatively few geese who honk in alarm? 

In only makes sense to plan for the worst, because that is exactly where the actions of our society are taking us.  The projections for longer timescales are written in the hopes that humans would have made or will make drastic cuts to emissions...much more drastic than are even being discussed in our governments.  Until the behaviors change, we can set aside the hopeful projections.

Have you ever heard "All models are wrong, some are useful". The climate models are constantly being reviewed and revised. Are the scientists who's research has produced these worst case scenario models making drastic changes in their own day to day lives, such as you are? Usually they continue doing research and occasionally speak before congress to try and change legislation. Activist have their place but sometimes they are so loud that they drown out the scientific community. You are completely disregarding the adaptation qualities of many species and the evolutionary process.

I don't live my life in a constant state of worst case scenario planning. Most people don't because it's psychologically crippling.

Catholic Services has very good open adoption counseling which is free. I used them after placement of my DD. I would stay far away from most adoption agencies though.

[mamatochubchub]

Pattimomma -- Dana's husband again. Real quick: we agree with you that streight-to-the-source peer-reviewed scientific literature is the only way to go, and I have been doing an increasingly thorough review of that literature myself. It is the basis for my public presentation. It just so happens that Bill McKibben's article in the Rolling Stone fairly accurately summed up the cross-purposes between the necessary rate of CO2 reduction and what the fossil fuel business interests are currently committed to, financially.

(Ok...Dana here...I'm just tagging my response on his response so that I can pretend I didn't post again to this thread.  But here I am, hooked again.  Can we reach for truth together, people!!!?

Have you ever heard "All models are wrong, some are useful".

Yes.  This is my point, exactly.

The climate models are constantly being reviewed and revised. Are the scientists who's research has produced these worst case scenario models making drastic changes in their own day to day lives, such as you are?

Yes.  It is striking and inspiring.

Usually they continue doing research and occasionally speak before congress to try and change legislation.

That also.

Activist have their place but sometimes they are so loud that they drown out the scientific community. You are completely disregarding the adaptation qualities of many species and the evolutionary process.

Are you really a geologist??  If you understand evolution, you *know* that there will be no time to adapt to these changes.  If you are a geologist, might want to buff up your math.  The necessary evolutionary adaptations, if they were very efficient, would require 10,000+ years.  We're looking at somewhere between 10 and 100 years.

I don't live my life in a constant state of worst case scenario planning. Most people don't because it's psychologically crippling.

We are heading directly for a collision with a very unnatural disaster.  If you are heading directly for a cliff, you start planning for the worst-case-scenario...you stop in your tracks, turning sharply in another direction.  We are heading for a cliff, the science is unified.  Yet we are continuing in the direction of the cliff, not stopping in our tracks or turning noticeably in any other direction.  *IN THIS CASE* it only makes sense to plan for the worst. 

As I said in my post which you did not read carefully, the hopeful projections were made based on the variables of drastic changes being made in our society...which have not been made.  Some of those charts are gone for good...certain windows of opportunity which rightfully gave us hope four years ago are left in the wake of history now, no longer possible.

The hopeful projections are all dying fast, because humanity is numb and complacent, addicted to his ways. 

Catholic Services has very good open adoption counseling which is free. I used them after placement of my DD. I would stay far away from most adoption agencies though.

Thank You for this bit of feedback.  It helps!

Edited by mamatochubchub - 9/24/12 at 12:54pm

[pattimomma]

Originally Posted by mamatochubchub 

Activist have their place but sometimes they are so loud that they drown out the scientific community. You are completely disregarding the adaptation qualities of many species and the evolutionary process.

Are you really a geologist??  If you understand evolution, you *know* that there will be no time to adapt to these changes.  If you are a geologist, might want to buff up your math.  The necessary evolutionary adaptations, if they were very efficient, would require 10,000+ years.  We're looking at somewhere between 10 and 100 years.

LOL yes I have both an undergraduate and a graduate degree in Geology. You can also come see my present my current research at the annual Geologic Society of America meeting in November. https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2012AM/finalprogram/abstract_212415.htm  Not all species will be able to adapt that quickly but adaptation also includes migration. Climate has changed very quickly in the past, in a matter of years, when super volcanic eruptions dropped the Earth's temp several degrees. Some species died others adapted. Adaptation is part of evolution.

I don't live my life in a constant state of worst case scenario planning. Most people don't because it's psychologically crippling.

We are heading directly for a collision with a very unnatural disaster.  If you are heading directly for a cliff, you start planning for the worst-case-scenario...you stop in your tracks, turning sharply in another direction.  We are heading for a cliff, the science is unified.  Yet we are continuing in the direction of the cliff, not stopping in our tracks or turning noticeably in any other direction.  *IN THIS CASE* it only makes sense to plan for the worst. 

As I said in my post which you did not read carefully, the hopeful projections were made based on the variables of drastic changes being made in our society...which have not been made.  Some of those charts are gone for good...certain windows of opportunity which rightfully gave us hope four years ago are left in the wake of history now, no longer possible.

The hopeful projections are all dying fast, because humanity is numb and complacent, addicted to his ways. 

Ok you only can see one side of this apparently. A truly critical thinker examines all possibilities, include flaws in their own research and opinions.

Catholic Services has very good open adoption counseling which is free. I used them after placement of my DD. I would stay far away from most adoption agencies though.

Thank You for this bit of feedback.  It helps!

[mama2soren]

Originally Posted by mamatochubchub 

It would make no sense at all to stay in my house and try to hold down a job... a job?  

You mock the idea, but fortunately for you, most people have them, which is how the government ends up with enough money to pay you for your "volunteer" work.  

You are clearly a very passionate person, which can be a very admirable trait.  But talking about building carts and training donkeys admittedly makes you come across as a bit, well, crazy.  Is your mission really to load all your kids up in a donkey cart to travel around the country hoping to find random speaking engagements?  Is it really fair to require that lifestyle from them?  And from a new baby?  To essentially make them homeless, friendless, and without a decent education?  Maybe they'd rather just enjoy their next 10 years, if that's truly all they will have.  Maybe take up piano or something.

I do think that what a previous poster said is true: that you might be leading your family down a complicated, potentially painful road if you're honest with any adoption agency and/or adoptive family about your plans.  I think most places would probably choose to call CPS.  Is that a risk you want to take?  

[mamatochubchub]

We are aware that our actions are alarming.  They need to be.  CPS will be called many times.  What we are doing is legal and is being fun and enriching for our children, which is why we include them.  

The constant assumption that people are making that we are not considering our children's best interest is idle speculation based in nothing but fear.  I can not believe you mothers are criticizing my action.  I would entirely have expected that you, AP mama's of all people!, could grok the severity of the climate crisis, and appreciate that someone you know is actually doing something to try to raise awareness for the catatrophe which will march over our children, as well as most earth life, within the next fifty years.  

Very few of you are even clicking around to investigate the science, though every major new source is finally beginning to beep with alarm.  Your heads are in the sand... you sit here together in your club of agreement, snickering at the "crazy lady" who has been nailed to the pole.

And no matter how ridiculous any further posts might be, I have to pull myself away from this thread.  I must accept that, in general, the women posting in this forum at Mothering are not supportive of radical action for climate change, not interested in knowing about the degree to which their children's planet is being ruined beyond hope or repair;  that they have lost their aliveness, compassion, and bravery.   

By way of this thread, I have become sufficiently frightened of the current nature of humanity.  That's something I notice, which many of you might feel proud of.  You scared me. 

I do very much wish that I was crazy, that I was mistaken, and that I would be able to be a grandmother some day.

[MeepyCat]

I very much doubt that adoption agencies would call CPS on you. They would tell you that, in order to work with you on an adoption, they'd need you to talk pretty extensively with a social worker, though.

I don't think the plan with the donkey carts makes sense even if you do assume catastrophic outcomes from global warming in the near future. I evidently place more importance on stable shelter then you do, especially with small children in the picture. I'd worry a lot about keeping everyone warm, dry, fed, clothed and shod. And about managing toddler/donkey interactions.

[mamatochubchub]

This is Dana's (Blissdragon's) husband. I don't plan to post anymore after this, either. I do want to say that our walk -- with Donkeys or without -- is inspired by Peace Pilgrim, as well as the tens of people who walk across the country every year in honor or recognition of an important cause. Our children have asked to join us on this walk (we could find relatives to care for them while we are gone), and after evaluating the hazards and the rewards, we have decided that they will benefit from being with us, from seeing the country in this way, and from seeing their parents take a stand for something that is so important.

You may call it crazy, but you surely realize that there are already mothers (and fathers) in this world who have been uprooted by climate change (about 300,000 per year die from the effects of changing climate already, according to an organization headed by Kofi Annan). These families are living in refugee camps, without adequate shelter, food, shoes...or else they are in motion, perhaps on donkeys or horses, their belongings in carts, unsure of what will happen next. So, when we depart from our house, which we still own, to embark on this walk of awareness and attention raising, when we choose to bring wagons or carts (not because we are emulating unfortunate refugees, but because we are humble enough to recognize that a handrawn wagon is a simple, useful way to bring our belongings), we are only tasting the hardship that our brethren around the world are already experiencing...and experiencing it, I might add, largely due to what we, in this privileged country, have done to the environment so far. I don't mind sharing their struggle to bring our addled, indulgent, self-centered national attention to this emergency. And I don't mind "subjecting" my children to it, either.

One note: our presentations are not random. We have a large network of friends and associates, and connections to colleges across the country. Our aim so far is to speak at college campuses.

Lastly, don't conflate our family's decision whether or not to adopt out our newest child with our Pacing endeavor. They are separate events, and we are not thinking of adoption because we are artificially impoverishing ourselves while walking. Where the two intersect is that one reason we might adopt our child out since we are pressed into service by our consciences to address climate change (beyond just pacing) in the future, and cannot afford, sadly, to dive into private bliss of our internal family life.

[Mary Boyle]

You seem like a very self-aware woman/family. I think it's great that you can consider adoption in a positive, open manner while asking for advice  from others. Only you and your S/O can decide if adoption is right for your family. Trust your instincts, whichever way they take you. I love that you are considering adoption. Good luck mama!

[elus0814]

Originally Posted by mamatochubchub 

This is Blissdragon's husband.

Actually, Elus, in the real real world, you are drip-fed your existence from packaged food at the supermarket, you surround yourself with technology and tools and entertainment about which you haven't the faintest comprehension how they actually for, or what the total life-cycle energy consumption of your choices is, you send your children off to be managed by other people so that you can work at a (in most cases) non-essential job whose primary reason for existence is to increase the profits a person you've most likely never met in your life, and you wouldn't know how to stop the great juggernaut of your society's imposition upon the natural world even if you wanted to.

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at some of these things. 

Those 'packages of supermarket food I'm drip fed' are organic meat, produce, and eggs purchased directly from local farmers. Our milk is raw and also bought right from a local farmer. Grains are purchased in bulk - you guessed it - right from a farmer.

The technology I'm surrounded with is a computer (which you obviously have as well) and a cell phone and yes, I do have a general understanding of how they work.

No I don't know the total life cycle energy consumption of my choices because I need to spend my time caring for and educating my children but I do research major purchases so I can choose something that consumes the least amount of energy. I buy items made in America whenever possible and purchase local food as much as possible. We try to keep our lives as simple as we can but we do have some comforts.

I do not send my children off to be managed by others, they are homeschooled.

I do not work a non-essential job. My husband works a very essential job to provide for us (and others via taxes). He does not work for the profit of anyone, he works to defend the country. 

I may not know how to stop a 'juggernaut' but, frankly, a family dragging four kids around the country with a cart and donkeys doesn't either.

BTW - 'my society', as you call it, pays for their lifestyle.

[loveandgarbage]

Originally Posted by Mary Boyle 

You seem like a very self-aware woman/family. I think it's great that you can consider adoption in a positive, open manner while asking for advice  from others. Only you and your S/O can decide if adoption is right for your family. Trust your instincts, whichever way they take you. I love that you are considering adoption. Good luck mama!

Yes to all of this! OP and her husband, if you are still reading, I hope that you are able to find a kindred family to adopt your child to, if you decide to go that route. This thread has been depressing me all day. You have received very harsh personal judgements that have no place on a thread asking for advice about adoption. It's sad that you feel the need to leave MDC, as it is or at least should be a great resource for some things, but it is very understanding given the feedback you have received.

[littlest birds]

I think there are many harsh responses on this thread and it's a little surprising.  The OP may not have figured out all of the details, just started considering a picture in her head, which hasn't been completely fleshed out by the realities of these possible choices, but that's okay.  She just started considering it, brainstorming, tossing around maybes.  I think it is lovely that she is considering this as one option when facing an unplanned pregnancy that is overwhelming for her family circumstances.  Let's be gentle.

Climate change is sort of beside the point.  But I get the OP...  We humans face some frightening uncertainties about the future, and the feeling and belief that the world is heading for a downward spiral that threatens basic survival is not all that radical.  I do not know what the future holds, but the threats to resources and survival make the vulnerability of a struggling parent even more frightening.  How do we walk into that future?  Hard to answer if you look at some of the scarier realistic possibilities...  While I do not look at it with the expectation that I will see my children die in a changed world, I admit it is possible and would never hold it against someone who feared that possibility more than I do.  If you are already struggling and watching resources dwindle and become more dear and your family situation is tenuous AND you add to that the fear that resource scarcity will become exponentially worse, it would affect this kind of decision.

The choice to adopt is a big one.  To propose openness in the adoptive relationship like this, some of it sounds well-considered, some a little unrealistic, and so what?  Clearly this is a brainstorm full of kindness and care and it may turn into a very positive scenario.  There are no perfect answers sometimes.  Some choices will be full of pain either way one goes with them.  I do not know why mamatochubchub isn't getting a more kind response here, and it saddens me.  I see why she would be "defensive" because some of her statements were misunderstood, interpreted differently than she intended.  It's tricky to communicate in writing like this, sometimes you need to clarify, and as you do so you also are thinking things over as you go.  This mama is definitely thinking about the answers she's getting, not being thick or stupid or anything else.  No need to treat her so.  Help her weigh this out. 

I do doubt that a new mama would want to adopt and have a "mentor" but that wasn't mamatochubchub's priority as far as I could tell, that was just an idea to consider.  I would think a mama who has secondary infertility and could relactate might be better if you care about the breastmilk so much.  She would also have experience as a mom and not be too ridiculously idealistic.  A first-time mom probably couldn't handle an open adoption as well as an experienced one.  

In general, you've received wise advice about the adoption decision and about giving yourself time.  I think avoiding attachment to children is worth questioning.  Is it in anyone's best interest for you to "let go"?  Maybe it really isn't, regardless of it sounding like a positive spiritual move.  There are times to nurture attachment as well.  Maybe this is one of them.  Maybe the spiritual thing is something you tell yourself to talk yourself into doing this?  I do not know, but please do ask yourself if that could be true because sometimes our head tries to make our heart go a direction, and maybe your head is bossing you.  Trying to protect from fear of vulnerability.  I always have felt SO vulnerable as a mama of a wee one.  It is so easy to feel that we are inadequately equipped to protect ourselves and our children when we (in combination with the tiny one we carry and the wee ones we guard from harm) are so physically vulnerable.  I really feel for you, mama.  I hope things go okay for you.  I tried for three years to have a fifth child after a successful vasectomy reversal and have not succeeded.  I am not looking to adopt but I know there are many mamas struggling with infertility who would like to adopt outside of the system.  Their interest in openness would vary, as it could be quite uncomfortable for some.  There may be a good match for you waiting.  Maybe you will decide otherwise, knowing that your children would lose a sibling, that there would be tremendous difficulties for you all in that choice.  Yet if the child can be loved and cared for by that new family, that is a great thing in a difficult world.  So many do not have that chance, even.  It's a really really big deal, but I don't think it is inherently neglectful to give a child up for adoption. 

[elus0814]

I don't think people are getting defensive and short with her out of the blue. She seemed to have a quippy response to all of the suggestions she was getting. In those responses she told people trying to give the advice she asked to get that they don't understand anything as part of some rather unusual, lengthy posts on her views on climate change. It started as a question about adoption which she quickly spun into something else. After reading all this I'm still not sure if she was really asking advice or was just looking for a platform to talk about her ideas (some of her other threads/posts have been removed) or if this was more of an ad to attract a like minded family to adopt her baby.