Given too Many Vaccines

[LovingMama2]

Someone near and dear to me took their one year old baby boy, this last week, to get a first in a possible string of delayed vaccinations. Her mother was with her because she was just so nervous about it.

First she talked to the Pediatrician about exactly which one would be best to be given and most necessary and all of her concerns. Next, the nurse came in and said "sign this paper" and then "hold his arms". The mother and grandmother were focused on the baby, but soon realized that many needles were being used. They said they figured there was a reason for using more than one needle. Dr. knows best, right? Only after five different vaccines were administered did they face their aweful reality.

The nurse says "now watch the MMR..."

Mother stops her and says, "MMR?"

Nurse, "Yes, and varicella..."

Mother of child, "WHAT?!"

Anyway, the pediatrician had "pressed the wrong button" and ordered too many vaccines. Mother and grandmother spent time talking to the office manager, nurse, and pediatrician who were "very sorry for the mistake". Obviously the mother made it clear she would NEVER be back.

Now what?

[emmy526]

File complaints with everyone she can write to, including the local health dep't,  state health dept, state  ins commissioner,  consumer protection, BBB,   AAP,  the dr's office who gave the shots, and speak to  legal counsel to cover herself in anything she may have forgotten. 

[LovingMama2]

Thank you!

[BeckyBird]

I wonder what would happen if the baby had a reaction. Would the pediatrician's office be responsible since they made the mistake?

[emmy526]

They would do what they do best about vaccine reactions:  deny it, and info about the vaccines given would also magically disappear out of the child's record's too.   That happened to my niece last month..her dd's vax records simply 'disappeared' according to the nurse at the office...12 years of records just up and disappear? Esp when the child was in the week before for vaxes.  

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

I wonder what would happen if the baby had a reaction. Would the pediatrician's office be responsible since they made the mistake?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

I wonder what would happen if the baby had a reaction. Would the pediatrician's office be responsible since they made the mistake?

That would be a big fat NOPE!

[prosciencemum]

Did the child have any bad reactions? That's the main concern here right? 

[BeckyBird]

Of course, prosciencemum. If the child has a reaction, it would be nice to know who would pay for the damage. (The vaccine damage that they will surely deny.)  That's all I'm saying here. Obviously, we don't want there to be any damage at all.

The office made the mistake, and they should be responsible IF there is a reaction. As someone who vaccinates, doesn't this concern you? Since I don't vaccinate, I don't have to worry about whom I should hold liable for potential vaccine damage. As a non-vaxxer, I don't want any child to suffer through a vaccine reaction.

[prosciencemum]

The problem in this instance which led to unconsented procedures being applied to the child does concern me. But that has nothing to do with vaccines, and I don't see why any special laws which you say apply to vaccines would matter either. 

But then I'm comfortable that in the vast majority of cases no bad reactions occur from vaccines (yes I've heard the anecdotes about rare reactions which I know can occur). Given that odds are on that this child had no bad reaction, and so in the end all he's ended up with is some extra immunity from VPDs.

[elus0814]

I would think they still have a case against the doctor. It sounds like perhaps the doctor wasn't really on board with delayed/selective vaccination and 'accidentally' hit the wrong button to order all of them. It's a medical procedure done without consent.

To think about it another way:

If someone drives 90 mph but doesn't hurt anyone did they do something illegal? The law is the law regardless of injury. 

[erigeron]

I have a hard time believing this. It seems to me that a parent who is leary of vaccines and put a lot of effort into figuring out which one vaccine they want to give would also be really vigilant about what needles went into their child, not "assume doctor knows best" because generally, avoiding vaccines tends to assume that doctors don't know best. Assuming it did happen, though, they should request their records right away so that they have documentation in the event there is a reaction. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if they'd have a malpractice case if no verifiable harm resulted. I suppose they could talk to a malpractice lawyer if they wanted. 

[phathui5]

The story seems weird to me too. Why didn't mom or grandma stop the nurse after the first shot?

[Marnica]

I love the skepticism here. What reason does this woman have to lie about something like this - especially to friend?

[tonttu]

Originally Posted by phathui5 

The story seems weird to me too. Why didn't mom or grandma stop the nurse after the first shot?

Yes , to me too !

If I tell a doctor I want ONE shot and the nurse ( or doctor ) comes with a second needle , then I am not going to sit there and just take it !

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

I love the skepticism here. What reason does this woman have to lie about something like this - especially to friend?

To be honest, I thought the fact the mom missed an extra needle going into her child was odd.  It is possible the mom thought MMR was given in 3 separate shots, but I am reaching.  Most people know better than this, especially those who do not completely hand over vaccines decisions to the doctor.

That being said, this is a second hand account.  

Thinking someone got a detail wrong does not mean anyone lied or made stuff up.  

The take home story to me is the nurse messed up and gave the wrong number of vaccines.

The story does not surprise me; several times a year (easily!) people post stories of errors in relation to vaccinations.  

Medicine errors are pretty common, period  (I can look it up if you like).  Vaccines would not be exempt.

What would be interesting to me is if vaccine errors are more common than other errors of similar nature  (outpatient pediatric injections).  A google project for when I am bored at work later tonight.

Thanks, OP, for the story.  It does serve as a reminder to check the vials, etc.  Patients are not always as pro-active as they could be in checking medicine before it goes into them.  This is not about blaming the patient - hcp should get it right no matter what!- but it might cut down on errors.

ETA:  While trying to figure out if vaccine errors are more common than other errors, I came across this laundry list of vaccine error stories:

http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/compilation-of-mistaken

Edited by kathymuggle - 9/26/12 at 12:22pm

[LovingMama2]

Hello again. So I should have just said this was my younger sister and her baby this happened to last week. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Did the child have any bad reactions? That's the main concern here right? 

The baby has had no reactions as of yet. I talked to my mother yesterday and she said the baby is doing "just fine" (she is the one who encouraged my sister to get the whooping cough vaccine in the first place). So, as far as our mother is concerned everything is a-ok! I don't think she realized that many vaccines are given at one visit all the time. I think that was her worry after it happened.

My sister has only recently begun looking into vaccines with this 2nd baby. She has a son who is six years older who has his vaccines up to date thus far. About 15 days after he had the varicella vaccine he (the older son) came down with shingles. She undoubtedly did NOT want the varicella for this baby. However, the fact that he has not had any reactions, besides a low grade fever, is not her only concern. She had not looked into all of the vaccines and wanted to before continuing on with more. She has that right.

She contacted a lawyer just to cover herself and it sounds like since there has not been any "reactions" she'll be filing a complaint (or complaints) just as Emmy526 suggested. I came here to Mothering to see what suggestions I could get to help her. I originally told her I would email her the link to this thread. Now I think I will not. She will only feel more guilt.

I understand the skepticism because I am somewhat of a skeptical person myself (especially online). Since I know my mother and sister I can totally see the way it happened. They said they started to "look at each other" I'm sure with questioning looks, when they realized there were more needles being used, but assumed the doctors knew what to do. (Meanwhile I said,  "Huh? Mother! That's when you say 'HOLD ON'!") They are not assertive people. I used to be the same way. Life experience and a good husband have helped me to be more assertive and to ask questions.

To steal KathyMuggle's line "The take home story..." is to be alert. Be assertive. Be in charge of your health, don't leave it up to other people!

Anyway, sorry this was long, but thank you for the suggestions about filing complaints. That was the kind of thing I came here looking for to try to help her.

[kathymuggle]

Hey, Op….

You are right not to email your sister the thread - people are hard on each other online - and the vaccine forum is one of the nastiest forums on Mothering (this thread is pretty tame, actually)

If I were writing a letter of complaint here is what I would do:

-state your story and be specific - date, times, nurses and doctors name, those present.  State they gave the child vaxxes without verbal or written consent.  

-ask for what you want.  Do you want a written apology?  Do you want them to institute policies so this kind of thing does not happen in the future?

-ask if there is any reporting body you need to file a form with when a medical error occurs.

-ask for them to get back to you within a reasonable timeline.  I would give about a 10 day deadline, but that is up to your sister.  if they have not responded, you can just resend the initial letter.

-This is important:  c.c. everyone if it is an email.  The more people you tell, the more likely it is to land in the hands of someone who will not bury it, or might care.  If you do a snail mail paper copy - do multiple copies (and add c.c at the bottom of the letter, so everyone knows you told everyone else).  Keep a copy for yourself..

-thank them for their time in advance and working with you to resolve this matter and ensure it does not happen to someone else's child.  Keep it positive.  Try not to sound overly emotional.  Be persistent.

[LovingMama2]

Thank you kathymuggle. I will cut and paste the ideas to email her ;0)

[anj_rn]

I am not saying what happened was right, but this was not the nurse's fault.  You do not have to sign a consent for the vaccines, you sign a form saying info about the vaccines was "made available" to you.  The doctor ordered all the vaccines, so the nurse was following orders.   would also like to point out that many doctor's offices do not employ nurses anymore.  They have medical assistants (who can give meds, vaccines, take vitals, etc, but have only 3-6 months of training).  there are many docs who refer to them as nurses (which is not legal).

Sorry about being on my soapbox, but I hate it  when nurses get a bad rap for something not their fault.

On a legality standpoint:  NEVER SIGN SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT READ!!!!!!  In all likelihood she signed the acknowledgement for all the vaccines, thereby negating her complaint.

[katelove]

Originally Posted by anj_rn 

I am not saying what happened was right, but this was not the nurse's fault.  You do not have to sign a consent for the vaccines, you sign a form saying info about the vaccines was "made available" to you.  The doctor ordered all the vaccines, so the nurse was following orders.   would also like to point out that many doctor's offices do not employ nurses anymore.  They have medical assistants (who can give meds, vaccines, take vitals, etc, but have only 3-6 months of training).  there are many docs who refer to them as nurses (which is not legal).

Sorry about being on my soapbox, but I hate it  when nurses get a bad rap for something not their fault.
On a legality standpoint:  NEVER SIGN SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT READ!!!!!!  In all likelihood she signed the acknowledgement for all the vaccines, thereby negating her complaint.

I don't know about the laws governing nurses in the US but in Australia a nurse would absolutely share some responsibility in this situation. Nurse can't just hide behind the following doctors orders shield. Part of our role is to check and clarify orders. I know of many drug errors which have been prevented by nurses.

In this case I would have asked the mother to tell me the child's name, date of birth, ask if there were any known allergies and said something like "so today we are giving x, y and z vaccine is that right?". If there was a signed form and I hadnt seen her sign I would show it to her and ask if it was her signature.