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Dh and I on verge of separation over night waking 8 mo LONG

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
The background: we have moved eight times in just over a year, not on purpose things just ended up that way, this includes through my pregnancy and at 37 weeks. We are in debt and struggling to pay bills, I am dealing with some major physical issues from my almost 11 lb vbac baby and forceps delivery. I have ppd/ppa, and many PTSD symptoms from my daughter's c section 2.5 years ago. Dd was/is extremely high needs had reflux barely slept and had to be bounced ob a yoga ball in the ergo for hours and hours day and night. She nurses constantly. When we stopped bouncing when I got pregnant and it usually took a good three hours if screaming before she slept even though exhausted nothing worked, she had sensory issues and was just a handful.

Now ds has reflux though mostly not as bad as dd's was. He also gets very constipated and gets ear infections. He slept pretty solidly before but by 3-4 months he became hard to get to sleep and woke so so often (10 x's?) often for hours. For months I was getting three broken hours of sleep. After a lot of herbs, honeopathy, diet changes he goes to sleep fairly easily but awakes often to nurse ( at least every two hours) a d often can't get back to sleep by 2-4 am. Usually I try a number of things - nursing, rocking, laying him in his crib, ear drops/Advil/ homeopathics, herbs for reflux, etc. after about an hour I get dh up... He sleeps with my 2.5 year old althoygh she wakes only occasionally, she and the baby would wake each other up. Usually he gets up but often whines or says what the $&@#% is wrong with this kid? Then he will usually try rocking him first which often doesn't work, I have a theory that it squishes his stomach and gives him reflux and he even when it doesn't he seems to have an aversion it. Once in a while he will sleep, usually he screams and as some of you know this aggravates the reflux. It can go on for 10-15 minutes usually with me begging him to stop because I know he won't calm down and it is stressing me out/keeping me up (out house is small) and will eventually wake dd. quite a few nights lately they've both been up for this reason. So I get screwed over. Dh is convinced we spoil ds ( he didn't thibk that about dd apparently he believed in AP then?) if ds stops crying even for a moment to breathe he'll say he's almost asleep, blame me etc. I've tried staying out of it but I can't bear to hear him scream like that for more than 15 mins.

The other issue is I'm exhausted, I need to sleep, and I'd dh takes da outside in the ergo he will almost always sleep very soon without screaming. Of course it's cold and he doesn't want to but. It works and I just let dh sleep most of the night.

We had another huge fight in the middle of the night, dh refused to take him out but ds had been crying ob and off (mostly on) with him for an Hour and I really needed to sleep and ds was clearly distressed. We had a conversation last week about hOw stressful it is for me, he agreed to take him out after he cried for ten minutes doing other things. Then we had a few better sleep nights then last night. I've been seeing a therapist and we've gone together once and are going back next week. I've been working hard on asking more nicely/ not nagging criticizing so I told him as he started to argue with me that as per our convo could be please take ds out I really needed to sleep we could discuss whether he was spoiled in daylight hours. He said no ill rock him. Ds is very distressed, I am holding him, I say no, we've discussed this I'm not ok with it you've rocked him tyree times and he's cried through all of them. Then he snaps and looks very scary and angry and says he's had it up to here with my " f-ing parenting issues" keep inundate he's been awake for an hour I've been awake most of the night because even when ds wasn't awake he was tossing and turning. I tell him not to talk to me like that he keeps shouting and eventually I tell him to leave. I don't feel safe it's not the first time this has happened. He goes in the room where my daughter is sleepibg I tell him to leave again he says niche has a right to be here I say stop shouting you'll wake dd who is stirring . He says it's my fault if she wakes up. Finally he leaves in a rage to sleep in the car. I get dd to pee and set her u with books and tell her I need to put ds to sleep, I pace the floor with ds on my back and he goes to sleep within ten minutes.

I feel badly for dh and tell him he can come in but to be quiet. I go to sleep once again feeling sick to my stomach and Angry with dh.

We talked for about a minute this morning and agrees to talk later... I just don't know. We've discussed this to death and he ultimately thinks ds is spoiled and won't live up to his end of the agreement. Have others been through this? With a dh who doesn't support AP or night waking in general? What if you can just bite the bullet and take it all on because you need sleep so desperately? My therapist had suggested if he won't cooperate to leave but in this situation I would have felt like I was abandoning my kids when he was in a rage. He is usually calm but does get into these rages now and then.

I feel do exhausted, no patience, and horrible thoughts going through my my mind I have so much else going on, and have been close to going to the ER lately orngtongue.gif I need advise especially btdt
Edited by doulawoman - 10/16/12 at 3:31am
post #2 of 31
Thread Starter 
Prompt replies before I have to discuss this with dh again would be very helpful
post #3 of 31

Wish I had more to say to help you, but is your therapist suggesting leave the house without the kids when he gets like this? If he is raging like it sounds like I don't think that is a good idea.

 

Sounds like you are doing a lot to help your son, that is great, but you are exhausted and need help. If he is not willing to, is there someone else, your mother perhaps, who might be willing to have you come stay for a few weeks to help with nighttime duties. 

post #4 of 31
Thread Starter 
She didn't know about the first major rage (I hoped it was a one time thing in terms of the nighttime stuff and kids) he's never actually done anything to hurt anyone but there is the threat of it,'. Not that I haven't yelled and been a bulky but I don't have the same physical strength and threat mostly if I tell I'm frustrated and simply trying to get through when I've asked five times nicely but as I said I've been working really hard in that and last night I only raised my voice once to say please.

We stayed at my parents home when we first moved back and dh was laid off. It was a very small space with seven people, and I'm not really welcome there short of an emergency. My mon doesn't do night time stuff. She helps a lot but has limits.
post #5 of 31

hugs first of all. a few question to help me understand things:

 

what is it that you need DH to do during the night that you cant do?

 

is it a case of him not agreeing ever to do those things? or that he agrees during the day but fails to hold up his end in the middle of the night?

 

you say he likes to rock your sin, does he truly feel (in the light and calm of day) that this works? did it work at one point or sometimes?

 

 

it sounds like in general you need to work on getting a plan of action and asset of tools to use when you are tired and stresses that both of you truly can sign on to.  write them down, print them and put them on the whatever works.  and a part of that may be you thinking about what gets you back to sleep faster, strugging to get dh to do that you wish he would just do, or just doing it yourself to get it over with.  maybe for a week or two, do whatever works fastest, just do you can catch up a bit.  and focus on you and DH working on things in the light of day, with a councilor. 

post #6 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

hugs first of all. a few question to help me understand things:

what is it that you need DH to do during the night that you cant do?
It's not that I can't do it, I can but honestly I might die or collapse or throw my son out the window. It's not every night but I'm SO exhausted I really need more sleep and I can't stay up the whole night, today I have a migraine and can barely function, it has been this way for a while and when I get stressed enough I start feeling like hurting myself. I need more help at night when ds has been up so often for so long. I often help dh on the rarer occasions my dd is up. I need a reprieve because I'm exhausted and about to lose it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

is it a case of him not agreeing ever to do those things? or that he agrees during the day but fails to hold up his end in the middle of the night?

No he did them a fair bit with dd, though I gave him months to sleep alone during his busy work times even at 7 months pregnant nursing ever half hour and taking three hours of screaming to get dd to sleep. He agrees more willingly sometimes, and he agrees during daylight but then doesn't live up to it randomly and often lately. He seems to think we're "teaching him" to need extras at night, it's not a "long term solution" and he'd rather have me lose it and ds scream his head off even if he gets nowhere than "give in" he also insists dd was "really sick" and ds isn't (he is! We control the reflux better but he suffers from frequent ear infections and constipation that is painful and these things keep him up...I am doing everything I can to deal with these issues through diet herbs etc, but they remain. I need more sleep I am losing it, at the complete end of my rope and I can't easily do it in the evening since dh depends ob me to put one kid to sleep and get dd back to sleep when she wakes to pee since she refuses to pee for him. I try to be fair and let him have plenty of sleep before I ask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

you say he likes to rock your sin, does he truly feel (in the light and calm of day) that this works? did it work at one point or sometimes?
It worked when he was about 4-8 weeks. Lately it has about 3/30 times and I always try rocking him before I get dh. He has admitted before it rarely works but I thibk ultimately he's lazy and feels it *should* work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

it sounds like in general you need to work on getting a plan of action and asset of tools to use when you are tired and stresses that both of you truly can sign on to.  write them down, print them and put them on the whatever works.  and a part of that may be you thinking about what gets you back to sleep faster, strugging to get dh to do that you wish he would just do, or just doing it yourself to get it over with.  maybe for a week or two, do whatever works fastest, just do you can catch up a bit.  and focus on you and DH working on things in the light of day, with a councilor. 

I can't. I don't even know how to make it till our appt. next Thursday. I've tried this, nothing changes. He just uses it to cop out. Of course this isn't the only issue but it is a big one. maybe this should be in parents as partners, i dont know. Am I unreasonable for not wanting him to shriek for more than 5-10 mins especially withgt he reflux?
Edited by doulawoman - 9/26/12 at 12:21pm
post #7 of 31

I'm confused on something. You get about three hours of broken sleep per night, how is a baby only sleeping three hours? Is it that you're staying awake to rock the baby? What about a baby swing? Having had kids with reflux I really think you need to take the baby to the doctor and explain all this. The baby might need stronger reflux medication to be able to sleep. I know you don't want the baby to cry at all but if you're getting to where you're thinking of hurting the baby or yourself it's ok to put the baby down, close the door, and go to another part of the house.

post #8 of 31

Honestly, I'm wondering if he's treating DS different than DD b/c he's a boy. Do you think that's what it might be, even subconciously? Mine seems to think that my boys are adults sometimes and they must learn everything the hard way. Like, if DS2 is crawling after him fussing and I tell him to pick him up he says why, he's fine. I think if we had a girl things might be different.

 

I've gone through a lot of this too. We've also moved tons in the last couple years and I think all the stress goes from you to the kids and everyone's just on edge. I also just tell DH to leave, partly b/c I don't want to blow up. He's sooo grumpy if he's woken, sounds like that might be one of your problems too, and, no matter what you say during the day, all they can think about is how tired they are and pissed you woke them. They just don't have the "mommy" in them to just deal w/being woken by the babes. What about, instead of having him help at night (since it doesn't seem to help you anyway), let him sleep but take the kids for a couple hours during the day, or longer on weekends, so you can nap?

post #9 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elus0814 View Post

I'm confused on something. You get about three hours of broken sleep per night, how is a baby only sleeping three hours? Is it that you're staying awake to rock the baby? What about a baby swing? Having had kids with reflux I really think you need to take the baby to the doctor and explain all this. The baby might need stronger reflux medication to be able to sleep. I know you don't want the baby to cry at all but if you're getting to where you're thinking of hurting the baby or yourself it's ok to put the baby down, close the door, and go to another part of the house.
Yes, I am walking the baby to sleep, and it takes me at least 1/2 hour to fall back to sleep.
Even when dh takes ds I am awake through his turn because of the screaming. I dob't want medical advice he has a pediatrician, and we are working on the reflux as best we can. He never liked baby swings and at 8 months he could get intO dangerous positions he's very squirmy and strong. We do have his mattress raised. Even in the times when the reflux is much better he wakes for other reasons.
I do put him down and leave the room but he screams and whines all day so I can't really be doing that all say and night. I know what I need -breaks and sleep, just not how to get it
post #10 of 31
Thread Starter 
R
Edited by doulawoman - 9/26/12 at 2:42pm
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yippiehippie View Post

Honestly, I'm wondering if he's treating DS different than DD b/c he's a boy. Do you think that's what it might be, even subconciously? Mine seems to think that my boys are adults sometimes and they must learn everything the hard way. Like, if DS2 is crawling after him fussing and I tell him to pick him up he says why, he's fine. I think if we had a girl things might be different.

I've gone through a lot of this too. We've also moved tons in the last couple years and I think all the stress goes from you to the kids and everyone's just on edge. I also just tell DH to leave, partly b/c I don't want to blow up. He's sooo grumpy if he's woken, sounds like that might be one of your problems too, and, no matter what you say during the day, all they can think about is how tired they are and pissed you woke them. They just don't have the "mommy" in them to just deal w/being woken by the babes. What about, instead of having him help at night (since it doesn't seem to help you anyway), let him sleep but take the kids for a couple hours during the day, or longer on weekends, so you can nap?

I do thibk it's partly because he's a younges boy and so is dh and he was tested very badly by his step father. He also does that " he's fine" all the time even when he's clearly distressed/bumped his head etc. he also tells me he's done and has nothing left to give.

In terms of helping at other times sometimes he does (mornings eyc.) but I often have to beg and can't sleep by that time because I'm frustrated and stressed. He is also working in the wine industry, has been working 6 days or more per week, never knows which day ge'll have off, and is starting to work later for harvest which will last several months. So there won't be much time he can help me. I'm looking into childcare for dd but money is tight and most things are full in my area a year ahead of time orngtongue.gif I feel really stuck and our history is of me over functioning and him being disorganized/ helpless and be paying for it. I'm sick I'd it and I don't feel it's right he agrees with AP for dd but not ds. I'm really frustrated. I've been back and forth wondering if we'll even make it through this time. He needs to step up, and he is completely inconsistent, I have tried writing things out with him, meetings, without him he has recently gotten slightly better but seems to thibk that he's justified in not helping me at might ever. Just because of our lifestyle that won't cut it I thibk we should take shifts and if he gets his way by being passive aggressive how does that help anyone? He SHOULD care that I giving 500% and dying and doing everything I can to get help/change our lives aghhhh I will never agree ds should cry like that for extended periods.
post #12 of 31

i really feel for you. and i hope my questions came across as really wanting to help.

 

i just know that sometime i want my dh to do something even if it takes longer and that i usaly then feel i have to stay up and listen to if it worked, and in the long run i didnt get any extra sleep after all. maybe i do months later after i feel comfy that he is doing what i feel needs to be done, but im too much a control freak to sleep right away. so frankyl if i want to go back a sleep the fastest, i do it myself! bad in the long term, but good for a few nights maybe.

 

i'll write more later, i have two of my own to put to bed. just wanted to check in

post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
We figured out a little compromise where he does what he wants uninterrupted for 15 mins, and he swears he won't just keep doing something that makes ds scream bloody murder, and I butt out. If he's still crying at tw end of 15 mins he will take him out in the carrier which pretty much always works. I have my doubts, but he actually came to newish the idea. Usually I have to solve these things. And I think he gets how uncool the screaming and domineering stuff was especially when I have been working my a$$ off to be kinder, gentler no yelling etc because it bothers him so much. I wish there was more I could do about night waking but generally we have a great routine at night, and he sleeps next to me in my bed in his crib which has caused everyone to sleep best so far. I thibk I may just have to be patient, maybe just maybe I can find a babysitter for cheap to let me nap. I still look forward to more ideas because I forsee some issues, this is the millionth time lately we've discussed this, and there are a few grey areas
post #14 of 31

Our daughter had awful reflux, ear infections, allergies, and night waking.  We felt like we were going crazy many times.  What we ultimately ended up doing is taking on our daughter to emergency and saying that there is something wrong.  She ended up having several infections we didn't know about, as well as other allergies that we didn't know. Things improved a lot when some of the underlying health issues improved. And instinctively we know that something health-wise must be going on for her to be crying/waking so much, and seemingly in pain.  We did all the advil/tylenol/benedryl/homeopathy things we could, but in the end she had IV antibiotics and a radical diet change (gluten free/casein free).  I'm not saying this is the answer, but I think it is worthwhile to investigate if there could be any health issues going on that could be treatable. Also in the hospital, the doctors considered that there might be sleep apnea going on (which would also cause wakings). She was hooked up to some monitors and it ended up not being the case.  Still we were glad that we investigated it.

 

I really wish you good luck.  It was so so difficult for us.  We just knew that the degree of waking we experienced was not right and something else must be going on. 

post #15 of 31

Use Google to see if there is a crisis nursery in your area.  If there is one, I would suggest taking your kids there for a few hours so that you can get a good solid nap in.  Things look so much different when you're well-rested. 

post #16 of 31

I think you already got a lot of good advice, but I want to chime in and say that it is so easy to fight when we are sleepy and stressed. I also have a frequent night-waker, who has been known to wake up about 10 times a night, too. I felt so resentful of my blissfully sleeping husband, and quadruply so when he complained about being tired. Please! But sometimes your partner can't really help very well, and you're kinda stuck. Your compromise sounds really good, by the way.

 

Like PP, suggested, I think it would help to find a way to take a nap! Then think about your marriage, but not when you are at the end of your rope. We had a really rough time with DS at 8 months (up to just recently, in fact) and a lot of fighting. Sleep makes a difference. It is so simple. And when you are tired, it's easy to make things even more complicated and hopeless-feeling than they already are.

 

I just want to say that your baby may not have a lot of health problems. Some of it can be temperament and developmental milestones. Also this is when babies start spending more time in light sleep. It seems like you are trying to find a lot of solutions, but it reminds me of early colic days trying to find all the fixes. Maybe nothing is wrong, it's just hard to be baby? No reason not to soothe, but perhaps a reason not to worry so much.

post #17 of 31

Wow, that is intense!! I didn't get all the details of the situation but here is what jumped out at me.

Clearly you are EXHAUSTED and beyond exhausted and cannot figure out how to get help/rest.

I think you need to put whatever issues you and dh are having on the side for now and figure out how to help some of the big things at the center/

 

I didn't catch it all but is the main reason you are not getting sleep because your baby is not sleeping more than 3 hours a night? Or is it because both of your kids are not sleeping much and also your dh doesn't help at night enough?

 

And your baby cries almost constantly? DId I read that right? Or only at night? I Am sure you have taken your ds to the doctor to figure out medical issues?

 

-  I think finding the exact source of if your baby has physical pain and if so how you can treat that would be the first step.

- the next step is pay someone or get some family to watch your kids as often as you can so you can sleep. I know it is not always easy to find people you trust to leave your kids with but hopefully you can-

Is this where you are not sure how to do that? You said you know you need rest- you do!!! So are you aving a hard time finding a sitter? If your dh is not helping you as much as he should you just have to find someone else who can. But is that something you are able to do now- when you need it? Do you have any family or anyone you trust who you could leave your kids with for a couple of hours and just sleep?

post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am exhausted yes, ds has a great pediatrician and we've done EEG, elimination diets (with both my reflux kids for most of their lives) honeopathy, herbs which are making everything better, as well as chiro isteopathy, naturopath and I'm always doing so much research we are gradually working towards trying GAPS not better enough iykwim. I am having a super hard time fInding childcare. There is a major shortage in my area, the babysitter I just found just got a 40-50 hr/week job, daycares have year long wait lists, my mom takes us all out (haven't got my lisencese yet test oct. 25) and takes kids maybe once per week she is an on call during the week so isn't dependable. Now dh is working late every night for harvest. orngtongue.gif there are no crisis childcare places here, as per a pp'a suggestion. money is also really right we're behind with a bunch of bills and way in debt.
Ds is currently in a constipation phase again so isn't sleepibg well. Just took both kids to clinic and no ear infection despite him yanking his ears, but I treated it with natural drops when he had a fever last week. I respect everyone suggesting medical stuff but we went through all this with dd and never got any answers. I will keep exploring but for now it is what it is and I really need to work with it. Hoping dh and I can sort more out at our appt. next Thursday orngtongue.gif
post #19 of 31
What about a doula? In my area a doula can be hired to help out after birth, but why not now? I know money is tight, but if you explain the situation to a doula, you may be able to work out some kind of swap or pay later arrangement.

I remember being exhausted, and it is so hard to see the possible solutions when that tired. Find some way to sleep. I wish I could help.
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 

well...might as well throw this thread out. Due to a family emergency of sorts, I'm now separated from my dh, living in one room with the kids at my mom/dad's house, applying to welfare and possibly about to go bankrupt. great fun.

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